282 réponses à ce sujet

[Excella Gionne]

Who's to say that some politician won't go power hungry and just wipe them out with that kind of house arrest? If it got to that point I'd say a rebellion will even be more justifiable. Humans aren't willing to be caged and controlled, but are willing to inflict it on others is an irony.

[Kabooooom]

Is it ever stated how long the maturation cycle is? Diaspora Krogan that go off the grid wouldn't really be a problem. Without a tech base their extreme birthrate would run into it's natural attrition; youngling fights in the nest, predation, disease, war and hungry adult Krogan would keep the numbers in check. Upon discovery, a KEW strike could deal with any stone age Krogan society if necessary.

It doesn't state directly, but the maturation is described as "very rapid". Presumably this means more rapid by comparison to other species (notably humanity), otherwise even mentioning it in the codex wouldn't really make sense, as "rapid compared to the 1,000 year Krogan lifespan" would be way out of context to anyone reading it.

[DeinonSlayer]

Shoot-on-sight orders for any non-compliant Krogan would do the trick. Issue grenade launchers to police and customs agents, that would get rid of the Krogan diaspora in a hurry.

Really? Just like that?

Good luck evicting entire populations of surly, heavily-armed reptiles. Better luck exterminating those who don't comply with the deportation (sounds familiar). Who has the strength to even try. Let's start with the Terminus - oh, wait, that's outside Council jurisdiction to begin with.

[Jukaga]

Who's to say that some politician won't go power hungry and just wipe them out with that kind of house arrest? If it got to that point I'd say a rebellion will even be more justifiable. Humans aren't willing to be caged and controlled, but are willing to inflict it on others is an irony.

If we launched a genocidal war of galactic domination, our willingness to be caged and controlled by the greater galactic community would not be an issue. It would be imposed on us with good reason. (who's to say some RL version of the council is debating an interdict on Earth right now? )

[Jukaga]

Really? Just like that?

Good luck evicting entire populations of surly, heavily-armed reptiles. Better luck exterminating those who don't comply with the deportation (sounds familiar). Who has the strength to even try. Let's start with the Terminus - oh, wait, that's outside Council jurisdiction to begin with.

As stated before, KEW strikes on planetary population centres that refuse re-settlement on Tuchanka, they have no defense against orbital weapons. Individuals could be a problem for sure, but heavy weapons seem to work fine in game.

[Excella Gionne]

If we launched a genocidal war of galactic domination, our willingness to be caged and controlled by the greater galactic community would not be an issue. It would be imposed on us with good reason. (who's to say some RL version of the council is debating an interdict on Earth right now? )

Yeah, but they already stripped the krogan of warships and starships. They live in the Krogan DMZ and are already under surveillance by the Salarians already. They're a little to no threat, but enforcing an even heavier punishment is not doing justice.

[Obadiah]

Well, they're in the Terminus Systems too, which is not in Council space.

[Jukaga]

Well, they're in the Terminus Systems too, which is not in Council space.

Are you sure about that? Tuchanka is right next door to the Citadel. I thought they were firmly in Citadel governed space, especially given the light interdiction forces present there.

[Obadiah]

Not sure about Tuchanka, I was just thinking of the Krogan in the Talons on Omega. I assume they're on pirate/unsanctioned colonies out there, along with everyone else.

[Excella Gionne]

The Krogan DMZ is located within the Inner Council Space. The Attican Traverse & the Terminus Systems are the largest sections.

[Obadiah]

In addition, there is the question: what has 1000 years of non-aggressive selection of Krogan who survive to adulthood done to the general population and gene pool? That Krogan Shepard saved from clan Werlock probably wouldn't have survived to adulthood originally. There are probably a lot of Krogan we encounter in Mass Effect that wouldn't have survived in their original aggressive culture.

[von uber]

In addition, there is the question: what has 1000 years of non-aggressive selection of Krogan who survive to adulthood done to the general population and gene pool? That Krogan Shepard saved from clan Werlock probably wouldn't have survived to adulthood originally. There are probably a lot of Krogan we encounter in Mass Effect that wouldn't have survived in their original aggressive culture.

 

You mean things like this?

 

[Excella Gionne]

You mean things like this?

 

Those are the sweet and polite krogans....

[I Tsunayoshi I]

The Krogan before and during the rebellions proves the need of a modified Genophage Justified. Although I don't like the idea of inflicting such a thing on an entire species I'd rather conquer than be conquered by Krogan. Although I do support cloning and creating more Krogan like Grunt an use them only for war. It's a shame Okeer died. Had a lot of potential. If he was alive I'd have him and mordin fight side by side. I wonder if they get along.

 

Past Krogan can not be used as justification for a modern revision of the Genophage. Any sort of simulations based on that are biased from the start and anyone attempting to use that sort of bias to justify anything are just disgusting xenophobes trying to push their own agenda over what is best for the galaxy at large.

[Excella Gionne]

Past Krogan can not be used as justification for a modern revision of the Genophage. Any sort of simulations based on that are biased from the start and anyone attempting to use that sort of bias to justify anything are just disgusting xenophobes trying to push their own agenda over what is best for the galaxy at large.

That is the reason why I keep saying that you can't blame present krogans for the past krogans' mistakes, sure they're mad and furious, but that should be understandable considering the genophage is still a burden passed onto them by the krogans during the rebellions. Cloning is unethical, and there is no honor in such a thing.

[zestalyn]

That's precisely what it is.

Then I guess I don't get how exactly the genophage affects their physiology and fertility. Because for quarians it seems clear that they can easily procreate based on need. Just like humans, as long as a female and male are fertile, the quarians can procreate as they please. For krogans, they don't seem to have that abiility, despite trying really hard even to the point of trading fertile females, which is why their population is a steady decline. It sounds like there are alot of krogan who can't even give birth to a single baby, or can only give birth to one baby in their life time, and that's what is problematic. 

[Obadiah]

@Cncrjs
Well... that's actually one of the running themes of the game including the ending - how far you will go, regardless morals or ethics, to justify survival, (or just maintaining a favorable status quo).

[I Tsunayoshi I]

@Tsunayoshi Ugh this guy. I agree, the simulations were used to justify the creation of the genophage to contain and control Krogan excessive breeding. However, I am not basing my opinion off of the salarians but off Krogan History. Before being uplifted by the salarians the Krogan wage war against each other leading their planet to a nuclear fallout. After being uplifted & the rachni wars they were rewarded with more planets due to their excessive breeding and depletion of resources. When the Krogan needed more they decided to try an steal planets from the asari and wage war for more planets and resources. Leading to the Krogan rebellions. Eve even mentions something about the Krogan being responsible for its own cultural and political destruction. They need a modified genophage to reduce the excessiveness in depleting resources. When it comes down to it the Galaxy isn't big enough.

 

Edit: This isn't about ethics or morals. Its about each individual species existence and security from the threat of a possible Krogan Empire that would take over and conquer us all.

 

Your logic is just awful and a stupidly convoluted means of saying its perfectly fine to use the past against the present day Krogan.

 

As for ANYTHING related to past Krogan transgressions can be put right at the Salarian's feet. The Salarians were the ones to uplift the Krogan with full knowledge that the Krogan were not ready for such a boost in technology, and excused it because they needed someone to save them from the Rachni.

 

The Genophage may have been needed to put an end to the Rebellions since conventional warfare was useless against the Krogan, but that never made right. Though that is besides the point. FYI: Turians take full blame for the deployment of the Genophage here. Salarians were actually unwilling to deploy right away with the original virus.

 

I wont go on from here seeing as its rather clear once we get to the revised Genophage who's at fault for deploying something that was not needed.

[Excella Gionne]

@Cncrjs
Well... that's actually one of the running themes of the game including the ending - how far will go regardless morals or ethics to justify survival, (or just maintaining a favorable status quo).

Thing is, your building a future on top of blood. Their blood is on your hands if they go extinct regardless of Wrex or Wreav. The decision for their continuity was because of your decision. If you did cure the genophage with Wreav alive then you have to consider and assume what would be best for the galaxy when making your final three decisions based on the crucible. The krogans can't do anything about fighting back since they are all dropped off on their home world, Tuchanka, and because they are demilitarized, they are still completely isolated, because the relays are damaged and they have no starships to go anywhere.

 

Either Wrex or Wreav is in charge, krogans will still be fighting in the war regardless. For Wrex though, because he's smarter than Wreav, he warns the clans before confronting Shepard. He asks that the clans hunker down on Tuchanka and only defend Tuchanka, and let the galaxy burn if they're going to die as well. It doesn't matter if they helped or didn't help at this point, because they would go extinct anyways due to their loss in numbers by the Genophage and the Reapers. 

 

Mass Effect 3's Priority: Earth FAILS in delivering any change based off of your decisions.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

@Tsunayoshi My logic is reasonable. Example, if someone has a history killing or raping people should we incarcerate then release them or should we imprison and execute them. Present day Krogan are no different than past Krogan. Wreav is a perfect example of this and eve further proves how self-destructive Krogan are. The Krogan were responsible for their planets destruction before salarian intervention. The salarians uplifted for war against the rachni and the rest is history. All you do is ridicule and attack me for sharing my own beliefs & opinions. ****bleep****

 

 

Edit: I helped Wrex and saved Eve. I am in support of the Krogan future but also in support a Mordin's modified genophage and Okeers cloning of Krogan.

 

Congratulations. The first bolded portion is patently false, and proven so through other Krogan that we see in the game. If your statement was true, then Wrex, Thax's assistant, and Char wouldnt exist.

 

****bleep****

 

Inflammatory content removed

BioWareMod05

[Obadiah]

@Excella Gionne
I was actually referring to the Reaper cycle that the Catalyst enacted, the destruction of the Quarians race by the Geth, the attempted destruction of the Geth by the Quarians, the experiments at Sanctuary done by Cerberus, and the Genophage maintained by the Council. The Catalyst has NO ethics. Its a machine and does what it does purely based on logic, and so achieving its goal of survival of organic life (as far as the story goes) required the Reaper cycle. The Geth did something similar to the Quarians, the Quarians tried to do it to the Geth, etc...

We players in this story, to varying degrees have morals and ethical rules, and have to decide how far we'll go to achieve victory, survival, or maintain the status quo in our bid to stop the Reapers.

The borg scars of Renegade Shepard, since he acts in a manner most calculating, ruthless, and efficient, is the artistic representation of this shift towards ruthless calculating machine - somewhat undercut by Renegade Sheps extremely high entertainment value, and how awesome the scars actually look. But its there in the red tinted Destroy option were you survive and achieve complete victory by destroying another race.