282 réponses à ce sujet

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Hey now, no need to get mean. We're all Internet friends here. Kumbaya and sh*t, man. Hakuna matata or whatever.

 

I used up my bag of ****s with him. He wants to make claims he cant substantiate, then let him get the flak he deserves.

[Kabooooom]

I used up my bag of ****s with him. He wants to make claims he cant substantiate, then let him get the flak he deserves.

I've never seen the phrase "bag of s***s" before. I've always seen it as "bag of d***s", and so my brain filled in the blanks that way at first and I was like "...wait a minute...".

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I've never seen the phrase "bag of s***s" before. I've always seen it as "bag of d***s", and so my brain filled in the blanks that way at first and I was like "...wait a minute...".

 

It was another four letter word actually, but you know the saying 'I dont give a ****." Well my bag is empty, so I cant give a **** about someone who cant actually use their brain properly.

[Kabooooom]

Still, s***s or d***s aside, I think we can all get along without resorting to insults.

About the only time that I ever get that level of irritated by an Internet argument is while arguing with a creationist.

Edit: holy crap that actually didn't auto-censor either word. So I self censored to avoid mod-wrath.

[Kabooooom]

Alright, I'm officially giving up attempts to calm you two down.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

FYI kid. I'm usually the one punching people out, and I'd have done it over that last line of yours if it wasnt so clear who the actual immature brat is.

 

Oh well, Report button has its purpose.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

This thread delivers.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

This thread delivers.

 

In spades. Its about as amusing as an ep of One Piece.

[Kabooooom]

I predict this thread will be locked come tomorrow.

It was a thought-provoking discussion while it lasted though. Just like all the other genophage threads.

EDIT: my iPhone autocorrects "genophage" to "gentoo have" every single time. Random fact of the day, a gentoo is a type of penguin. They are the fastest underwater swimming penguins, reaching speeds of up to 36 km/hr. This impresses me, but not nearly enough to offset my annoyance whenever I type "genophage", which has been a lot lately. Every. Single. Time. With the penguins.

I'm sure there is some way to fix this, but I'm too lazy to find out.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Probably will be locked. Oh well. Another will just pop up cause some people just wont let the subject drop.

[Kabooooom]

I do like discussing the genophage though. It is indeed "harsh", but so is Tuchanka - as according to Mordin it stabilizes their population to Pre-industrial levels, which indicates a massive natural death rate prior to the rise of their civilization. Life is harsh.

And the Reapers are harsh too. If only we could teach them to love or something.

[Bardox9]

I never understand why this topic always stirs up such emotion and makes tempers flare. Is it really so hard to remain logical and rational over this issue?

 

Why is the Genophage so harsh?? It's not. It returns the population growth to what it was before the Salarians uplifted the Krogan to fight the Rachni. If they didn't spend so much time killing each other, their population would be growing. Not falling. They are going extinct because they are constantly killing each other.

[Excella Gionne]

The Genophage falls into morality and ethics of the individual, that's why it stirs up so much drama and tension. 

[Kabooooom]

I never understand why this topic always stirs up such emotion and makes tempers flare. Is it really so hard to remain logical and rational over this issue?

Why is the Genophage so harsh?? It's not. It returns the population growth to what it was before the Salarians uplifted the Krogan to fight the Rachni.

It is clearly impossible to be logical and rational about a fictitious video game story. Few endeavors in life are worth such impassioned debate.

[zestalyn]

for people complaining about threads beating a dead horse- please understand new people are discovering ME everyday, not everyone has picked it up since release. ME has only been in my life for two months, of course I want to talk about the genophage lol... Atleast I didn't title this thread "was the genophage good or bad?"   

and as for that little troll fight that just happened...at first its aggravating but now this crap is just funny. log out for a few hours and any thread that gets touched by that cncrjs guy turns into an all out b**** fight and i havent the slightest clue how it started. oh well. 
 

I do like discussing the genophage though. It is indeed "harsh", but so is Tuchanka - as according to Mordin it stabilizes their population to Pre-industrial levels, which indicates a massive natural death rate prior to the rise of their civilization. Life is harsh.

And the Reapers are harsh too. If only we could teach them to love or something.

In the context of how the salarians used them though, the genophage I feel was like the lamest political move ever, and just plain rude. It's like letting your pet out of its cage for the first time and the moment it began relishing its new found freedoms, you kick it back into its cage, and from then on the pet will be angry and suffer, and there will be bad blood all over the place. If you're going to uplift a race, you don't kick it back to the stone age, which is essentially what the genophage did, 

 

I made a comment/joke here once about how they apparently don't have Krogan birth control in the mass effect universe, because a sterilization plague seemed more appropriate to the Salarians.

But actually though, lol. I find it hard to believe that technology in the ME universe could not provide some form of birth control or anything that lets krogan give birth, just not at ridiculous numbers. Did no salarian or whatever scientist not consider a middle ground solution, or was it for some reason biologically impossible. That's just hard to believe, how could a species' biology be so complicated that you can't provide birth control without totally sterilizing them? The more I get what the genophage is about, the more silly it is to me . 

[Kabooooom]

for people complaining about threads beating a dead horse- please understand new people are discovering ME everyday, not everyone has picked it up since release. ME has only been in my life for two months, of course I want to talk about the genophage lol... Atleast I didn't title this thread "was the genophage good or bad?"

and as for that little troll fight that just happened...at first its aggravating but now this crap is just funny. log out for a few hours and any thread that gets touched by that cncrjs guy turns into an all out b**** fight and i havent the slightest clue how it started. oh well.


In the context of how the salarians used them though, the genophage I feel was like the lamest political move ever, and just plain rude. It's like letting your pet out of its cage for the first time and the moment it began relishing its new found freedoms, you kick it back into its cage, and from then on the pet will be angry and suffer, and there will be bad blood all over the place. If you're going to uplift a race, you don't kick it back to the stone age, which is essentially what the genophage did,


But actually though, lol. I find it hard to believe that technology in the ME universe could not provide some form of birth control or anything that lets krogan give birth, just not at ridiculous numbers. Did no salarian or whatever scientist not consider a middle ground solution, or was it for some reason biologically impossible. That's just hard to believe, how could a species' biology be so complicated that you can't provide birth control without totally sterilizing them? The more I get what the genophage is about, the more silly it is to me .

I agree, the Salarians never should have uplifted the Krogan. Everything that subsequently happened was ultimately their fault. Mordin says he would have argued against it if he was alive at the time. I would have too. It was viewed as a last resort to win the Rachni Wars, but it was only the last resort of all possible resorts that had been considered thus far. There is always one more last resort, some are more palatable than others.

With regards to the contraception point, I think I touched on it in another post that it likely wouldn't be feasible - it would be much less efficient, less elegant, and more difficult to implement across the entire species.

Forced contraception doesn't work. It would only work if the species decided for themselves to check their own birthrate, because they understand the consequences if they don't. My brother has like ten kids and lives in a crappy shack. I have little desire for kids, and instead focused on advancing my career and education. Different priorities. I value my decision as being a more beneficial one to society as a whole, but you cant force that on someone else. And if everyone followed suit, the population would decline. So, the Krogan probably should have been given the option, yeah - but it was war. So the Salarians decided to force something more permanent upon them.

[zestalyn]

Forced contraception doesn't work. It would only work if the species decided for themselves to check their own birthrate, because they understand the consequences if they don't. They probably should have been given the option, yeah - but it was war.

I agree, the genophage in context of the rebellions I can understand. In another post I was talking about how Mordin's reinstatement of a modified genophage should've instead been an opportunity for something like that. Use diplomacy to offer krogan a form of contraception as means of appeasement, or if they want to be tough, they could even threat them with that. Birth control or else genophage 2.0   

By then, I'd think the krogan would understand that yeah, institutionalizing contraception is probably a good idea given we were never able to colonize a world properly with our natural birth rate, and it's a whole lot better than dealing with the genophage. 

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The actions taken by the Salarians were taken to save themselves and the Asari and whatever other races were up and about at that time. They succeeded in that. Uplifting the Krogan stopped the Rachni. They had to do it, as the Krogan were perfectly suited to razing Rachni caves and planets. 

They didn't implement the genophage for no reason. 

Strikes made by the STG and Asari Huntresses crippled Krogan infrastructure in a pre-emptive when the Krogan attempted to annex an Asari colony. But the Krogan birth rate and population total quickly rebuilt their war machine. 

Barring genocide, it was the only way to stop them. 

[Kabooooom]

I agree, the genophage in context of the rebellions I can understand. In another post I was talking about how Mordin's reinstatement of a modified genophage should've instead been an opportunity for something like that. Use diplomacy to offer krogan a form of contraception as means of appeasement, or if they want to be tough, they could even threat them with that. Birth control or else genophage 2.0

By then, I'd think the krogan would understand that yeah, institutionalizing contraception is probably a good idea given we were never able to colonize a world properly with our natural birth rate, and it's a whole lot better than dealing with the genophage.

Yeah, that would have been a more civilized route. They likely wanted to avoid a political backlash from openly suggesting upgrading the genophage though. I think Mordin actually mentions the political ramifications if the galaxy at large ever found out what they did, since the Krogan had come to be viewed with a degree of sympathy.

Mordin always had mixed feelings about his work. He vociferously defended it from a scientific standpoint, but from an ethical standpoint it was clearly a gray area for him. He was my favorite character, because I can relate to that. I've had to do things for scientific or educational purposes that bothered me ethically (most notably, vivisections on mammalian species).

[zestalyn]

Yeah, that would have been a more civilized route. They likely wanted to avoid a political backlash from openly suggesting upgrading the genophage though. I think Mordin actually mentions the political ramifications of the galaxy at large ever found out what they did, since the Krogan had come to be viewed with a degree of sympathy.

Mordin always had mixed feelings about his work. He vociferously defended it from a scientific standpoint, but from an ethical standpoint it was clearly a gray area for him. He was my favorite character, because I can relate to that.

That's true, I can possibly understand covertly implementing modified genophage as a temporary solution, but I can't believe that moment didn't make the salarians think of a middle ground solution instead. I love Mordin, too and totally understand his feelings about his work (or sympathize rather). Honestly, I feel like the writers just maintained the genophage situation just for the purpose making the krogan this beat down race suffering from an all-around cultural decline that someone like Wrex had to step up to, and then the whole Eve thing and genophage cure plot in ME3 etc etc.

If what I described had been the case, had krogan contraception actually been a thing, then that's too idyllic of scenario in the ME universe lol. Doesn't make the krogan situation dramatic enough 

[Kabooooom]

I agree. Also, congrats on discovering Mass Effect. Better late than never . Dont let some of the people on this forum scare you off. I love discussing stuff like this. Especially the genophage. The genophage is way more interesting than the Quarian/Geth situation, at least.

[Statichands]

Why do you think, lad? Because the universe was shook of the Krogans. Have you forgotten what it's like to fight Krogans in Mass Effect? They're tanks. 

[Obadiah]

One of the reasons that I don't believe that the Krogan Genophage-cured runaway population would be a threat the galaxy, is that the Krogan are now dispersed and somewhat more integrated into galactic society. Even if Wreave managed to create a powerful unified empire on Tuchanka and were to start threatening other races, the Krogan are not a unified hivemind. There's every chance that factions within Krogan society would aid the Council and stop the Krogan Empire in order to prevent another Genophage-type backlash.

Meanwhile, curing the Genophage gives more moderate Krogan factions a chance to grow.

The Genophage may have been necessary to end the Krogan rebellion, but its also stunted their development as a society. Instead of factions being able to quietly move to one side, and grow/thrive on their own, and compete with the dominant Krogan culture, they're all locked into an endless competition for domination and control of the fertile females.

That's why Maelon's use of the word "Renaissance" was appropriate in ME2. The more Krogan born (with the Genophage slowly being overcome before Mordin's upgrade) could have resulted in a flourishing of new ideas. Also thematically appropriate because it would follow the Krogan "Dark Age".