79 réponses à ce sujet

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Alistair and Morrigan setting in a tree. F.I.G.H.T.I.N.G. There's not love. There's not marriage. But, there's a baby in a baby carriage.   

That was the most uncomfortable "love scene" ever.

[Joe25]

That was the most uncomfortable "love scene" ever.

I was only uncomfortable because Alistair was a virgin. Those two fight like an old married couple. They were kissing long before that.   

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I was only uncomfortable because Alistair was a virgin. Those two fight like an old married couple. They were kissing long before that.   

Well, I mean, they *are* simlar. Alistair is obsessed with magical imagery, and Morrigan has as many parental issues as Alistair, easy.

[Joe25]

Well, I mean, they *are* simlar. Alistair is obsessed with magical imagery, and Morrigan has as many parental issues as Alistair, easy.

Oh, the number of relationship I've seen grow out loathing. Surprising, a lot of have to do with shared mommy and daddy hate (well shared hate in general). 

[KC_Prototype]

It would explain why they hate each other and why they have such brother-sister hate relationship. Also, I never had them do the Dark Ritual because it was always my Warden getting the "action".

[Todd23]

Oh dear, I'd hope not after they did the Dark Ritual together

That made me hope so more. At one point one of the writers made a point of saying that Maric had at least two children. I always took that to meaning that he has at least three children. Considering the promise in the first book it's always seemed possible that Morrigan was his sister. But I doubt she's Flemeth's biological child, in any event.

[Former_Fiend]

This idea was very popular after Origins came out due to the Arthur mythos connection.

 

I believe the comics have debunked it, however.

[LOLandStuff]

Well, now I know the soul of the Archdemon isn't to blame if the kid shows up all wrong.

[Hydromatic]

Incest?

 

Did i accidentally stumble into the Game of Thrones forums?

[Former_Fiend]

People want their OGB=Modred story, and there's only one way to go about that.

[Arakat]

Oh dear, I'd hope not after they did the Dark Ritual together 

 

But that IS one of the reasons why people think they could be siblings in the first place, since that's one of the strongest similarities with King Arthur's myth. (At least some versions of it)

 

Not that I don't find it disturbing. But the parallels are pretty fascinating, anyway.

[Maferath]

I liked the theory when I first heard about it, but after reading the Stolen Throne I realized it doesn't actually fit. The timeline seems wrong. Flemeth was in her decrepit crone appearance when she met Maric and Loghain. Also Maric's scene with Katriel in his tent implied it was his first time having sex.

 

 

I don't see why the incest factor should be an argument against the theory, however. It is a rather common plot device in fantasy, actually. Tolkien himself used it in the tale of Turin. It seems to me that DA has addressed much darker themes than that already.

[Frikipolleces]

I thought about this when reading TST, but if Marric did have a child with Flemeth (which is certainly possible), it's almost certainly not Morrigan. The timeline wouldn't fit. We know, however, that Flemeth has other daughters, so Alistair might have a half-sister out there, somewhere...

 

Well, now I know the soul of the Archdemon isn't to blame if the kid shows up all wrong.

You're probably just kidding, but I'm so tired of this urban legend... Incest doesn't produce "wrong" children in any way. 

[ladyoflate]

I liked the theory when I first heard about it, but after reading the Stolen Throne I realized it doesn't actually fit. The timeline seems wrong. Flemeth was in her decrepit crone appearance when she met Maric and Loghain. Also Maric's scene with Katriel in his tent implied it was his first time having sex.

 

 

I don't see why the incest factor should be an argument against the theory, however. It is a rather common plot device in fantasy, actually. Tolkien himself used it in the tale of Turin. It seems to me that DA has addressed much darker themes than that already.

 

Plus the incest thing is sort of key to the whole Arthurian parallel thing. It's not like the King Arthur legend was saying incest is hunky-dory, anyways. Like the exact opposite.

[Maferath]

 

You're probably just kidding, but I'm so tired of this urban legend... Incest doesn't produce "wrong" children in any way. 

Technically, it does increase the risk of recessive genetic disorders. But yeah, that risk is largely inflated by modern folklore.

[ladyoflate]

Technically, it does increase the risk of recessive genetic disorders. But yeah, that risk is largely inflated by modern folklore.

 

And even then it's only for one-degree-of-separation-or-less or recursive matings. Like they've done studies, and first cousins are genetically distinct enough to be no problem.

 

Psychologically, however, even if it's not abusive, can be a whole nother can of worms. Partially because of societal taboo, partially because if you're close enough to said cousin that you were raised like siblings, you've got attachment issues.

[Gervaise]

I must admit that I always felt the worst thing about getting Alistair to do the Dark Ritual was the big stupid grin he had on his face.   It did may me think that all that bitching with Morrigan and his vehemence about how he couldn't stand her was really a front.   It was particularly noticeable because the only time I got him to do it was when my Warden was in love with him, so she was hoping he'd look like he was enjoying it less, since she only agreed to save his life.  (She'd guessed that otherwise he'd insist on playing the hero).

 

When you hear about the special qualities of Calenhad's blood line with respect to dragons, I almost felt that Alistair was always the one that Flemeth really wanted to save and that Morrigan wasn't clear on the details and thought any Warden would do.    There is also the possibility that it was originally the intention of the writers to have a sort of Arthurian storyline, including the incest part, but that did make the DR too specific and difficult to justify plot wise, particularly as you may get to that point of the game without Alistair in tow or even dead.   So while it is a nice theory, it doesn't really pan out.    Let's face it, the OGB has enough sinister overtones without having to add any more.

[thats1evildude]

That was NOT the boon Flemeth requested of Maric.

 

Spoiler

As revealed in The Silent Grove, Maric had to agree to travel to Antiva to help Yavana free the high dragons from The Silent Grove.

[Han Shot First]

No, Morrigan's father was obviously a Chasind wilder (and perhaps her mother as well). Besides Morrigan saying that she is either full or partially Chasind, characters also comment on her having a Chasind appearance.

 

Also I don't believe Alistair's mother was Flemeth. I think his origins are exactly how they were presented in game: Maric rutted with a common serving girl, and the result was Alistair.

[Orihime]

.....weird thought but possibly could be true >.>

[AkiKishi]

No, Morrigan's father was obviously a Chasind wilder (and perhaps her mother as well). Besides Morrigan saying that she is either full or partially Chasind, characters also comment on her having a Chasind appearance.

 

Also I don't believe Alistair's mother was Flemeth. I think his origins are exactly how they were presented in game: Maric rutted with a common serving girl, and the result was Alistair.

 

Flemeth can shapeshift. She also seems to play history like a grandmaster playing a game of chess. She may have seen all that slotting into place long before it happened.

[Han Shot First]

Flemeth can shapeshift. She also seems to play history like a grandmaster playing a game of chess. She may have seen all that slotting into place long before it happened.

 

There isn't any evidence for the Flemeth theory however, while there is for Alistair being born to a serving girl. 

 

As for Morrigan, it isn't even clear if Flemeth is her mother. Morrigan is said to have a Chasind appearance, and she gives two possible origins for herself. The first is that Flemeth seduced one of the Chasind Wilders, which she was known to do on occasion. The second is that Morrigan was stolen by Flemeth as an infant from a Chasind family. *If* the second theory is correct, Morrigan wouldn't be related to Alistair even if Flemeth gave birth to him.

 

That all being said I personally believe that Flemeth is Morrigan's mother, as Morrigan does seem to be of mixed ancestry rather than having a purely Chasind appearance. But I just wanted to point out that we don't know for sure that Morrigan is Flemeth's daughter.

[Gervaise]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that Flemeth was Alistair's mother, simply that Maric was the father of Morrigan, which would thus make them half siblings regardless of who the mother was.   The main debate concerning Alistair's mother is whether the story concerning the serving girl was true or whether it was a cover for the fact that he was the child of Fiona, formerly grey warden and subsequently Grand Enchanter, also an elf.   Maric definitely had a child with her, so if Alistair isn't the one then there is in fact another bastard of Maric running around.   However, Duncan did promise to keep an eye on the child and given the widespread prejudice against mages and elves, naturally his human family would want to play down that aspect of his parentage.   If his mother was a serving girl, it is odd that Loghain tells the Warden that Maric didn't acknowledge him openly because it would have been a threat to Queen Rowen.   Why the bastard child of a serving girl would have any impact on the status of Maric's queen is beyond me, particularly if he was younger than Cailan.   But if he was actually older than Cailan (which I believe Fiona's child would be) then possibly it might have impacted on the status of the queen and also Cailan himself.   Hopefully at some point the writers will reveal what the truth is concerning Fiona's child.

[Maferath]

Cailan was already born at the beginning of the Calling (and Rowan was already dead). Alistair is younger than him.

[Han Shot First]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that Flemeth was Alistair's mother, simply that Maric was the father of Morrigan, which would thus make them half siblings regardless of who the mother was.   

 

I think we can rule out Maric as Morrigan's father as well. Morrigan shouldn't have a Chasind appearance if Maric was the father, unless the mother was a Chasind, and Flemeth somehow ended up with the baby. Also the boon Flemeth asked of Morrigan was aiding Yavana, rather than fathering a child.

 

 

 

 

The main debate concerning Alistair's mother is whether the story concerning the serving girl was true or whether it was a cover for the fact that he was the child of Fiona, formerly grey warden and subsequently Grand Enchanter, also an elf.   Maric definitely had a child with her, so if Alistair isn't the one then there is in fact another bastard of Maric running around.   However, Duncan did promise to keep an eye on the child and given the widespread prejudice against mages and elves, naturally his human family would want to play down that aspect of his parentage.   If his mother was a serving girl, it is odd that Loghain tells the Warden that Maric didn't acknowledge him openly because it would have been a threat to Queen Rowen.   Why the bastard child of a serving girl would have any impact on the status of Maric's queen is beyond me, particularly if he was younger than Cailan.   But if he was actually older than Cailan (which I believe Fiona's child would be) then possibly it might have impacted on the status of the queen and also Cailan himself.   Hopefully at some point the writers will reveal what the truth is concerning Fiona's child.

 

I'm hoping that all gets resolved by having Maric fathering multiple bastards. It would make the most sense, and make Alistair less special. He's already a Grey Warden, the descendant of a king, and if the Qunari stories about the Theirin line are true he has mystical dragon powers thanks to Calenhad imbibing dragon blood. Having also him be the descendant of an Elven Grey Warden sorceress would start to be a bit much.

 

Rather than having the Goldanna quest line be retcon'd, I think they should keep that canon and just have Maric as an indiscreet man that sired multiple bastards with multiple women.