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The continued existence of Bioware Points will hurt DA:I sales at launch.


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#1
J.C. Helios

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(And, yes, Bioware Points will hurt sales even if DA:I doesn't use them for its DLC.  Read on!)

 

It seems everyone who plays Bioware games on the PC hates Bioware Points. Everyone, that is, except the folks at Bioware, who have shown no interest in getting rid of the things. But I'm hoping that that could change, if the company can be made to see how they stand to lose money if Bioware Points still exist when Dragon Age: Inquisition is released.

 

There are two classes of problems with the Bioware Points system: ethical and economic. I'm gonna go ahead and focus on the latter category, partly because I don't think that the ethical case against selling funny-money in regular denominations for irregularly-priced products needs to be belabored, but mostly because I'm sure that Bioware/EA will be more readily moved by an appeal to their bottom line. (Granted there is some overlap between the ethical and the economic there, as anti-consumer practices can hurt customer loyalty and depress sales. But never mind that now.)

 

The most pertinent characteristic of the Bioware Points system is that, in practice, DLC sold through it never, ever goes on sale: “Kasumi – Stolen Memory” (ME2) always costs the same $7 that it did in 2010; “Omega” (ME3) always costs the same $15 that it did in 2012; “Mark of the Assassin” (DA2) always costs the same $10 that it did in 2011; and so on. (The Bioware Points themselves seem to go on sale in a brief window once every several years, but that's close enough to “never” in my book.) Bioware Points are a de facto embargo on DLC discounts.

 

Now I am NOT arguing that developers are not entitled to a fair return on their labor. But such a rigid pricing system prevents Bioware from engaging in the profit-maximization strategy of “price discrimination,” where a seller seeks to find the maximum price that each customer is willing to pay, and then sell it to that customer at her own maximum price. With digitally distributed games, this discrimination is temporal: sell your game high at launch to the die-hard fans, then bring the price down over time for the holdouts (with intermittent sales to target even more reluctant buyers). This pragmatic sales strategy is why you can often find ME2 on sale for $5 on Origin, even though it remains as great a game as it was when it launched at $60 — it's just sound sales strategy. But no such profit maximization is possible with the Bioware Points system as it currently exists, with its rigid pricing.

 

So the fact that DLC sold in Bioware Points never goes on sale has already cost Bioware/EA oodles of money. But the cost to their bottom line gets even worse when you consider the effect that this system has on sales in story-based franchises (i.e., the only stuff Bioware makes). And this is where the effect on Dragon Age: Inquisition becomes apparent.

 

To understand the detrimental effect of Bioware Points on profits in franchises, consider my own experience with the Mass Effect series. Like so many computer/video gamers, I am something of a completionist: I like to finish a game before I start the next one in a series. And I consider any story-driven DLC to be a prerequisite for “completion.” (I'd call my attitude idiosyncratic, but completionists are so common in gaming that that word doesn't apply.)

 

The first Mass Effect had nothing that I would consider story-driven DLC, so I had no qualms about proceeding straight to the sequel. But Mass Effect 2 DOES have significant story-driven DLC — thirty-one dollars' worth, in fact. Now, I would have liked to have bought Mass Effect 3 when it came out, but I would've had to spend that $31 on the ME2 DLC first. So, reasoning that they HAD to discount either the DLC or the Bioware Points eventually, I waited for a sale. And waited. And kept on waiting. And what could have been $60 of revenue on EA's quarterly report (plus whatever I would spend on the discounted ME2 DLC) became less and less. Finally I got ME3 for free as compensation for the Great SimCity Launch Debacle — Bioware completely priced themselves out of that sale.

 

And the same hazard exists for Dragon Age: Inquisition. DA2 has almost as much story-driven DLC as ME2 (twenty-seven dollars' worth, unless you snagged the Signature Edition), so a subset of completionists will put off their purchases of DA:I indefinitely, waiting for a DA2 DLC sale. So, again, what could have been a ton of $60-$70 preorders/purchases instead becomes a ton of $5 sales, or even nothing.

 

You may be inclined to say that this is all my problem; that I should either pay the full price for the DLC, or not buy the sequel. Quite right, it is my problem. But the point is that it is also Bioware's problem. As I said, the completionist trait runs strong through the gaming population. (Just look at folks' achievement pages if you have any doubt.)

 

So here's what Bioware/EA should do, if they're looking after their own self-interest:

  1. Eliminate Bioware Points. Convert all outstanding Bioware Points to credit on the Origin store.
  2. Sell all Bioware DLC through the Origin store. Have sales when appropriate, such as just before a sequel comes out. Not only does this let completionists catch up on the series so they feel comfortable buying the sequel at launch, but it also creates marketing buzz.

With these two simple reforms, one of the failings of the third installment of Mass Effect can be avoided in the third installment of Dragon Age. As for avoiding the other failings of Mass Effect 3, well, I can't help you there. Ask someone who's played it.

 

(Too lazy; didn't read: An inflexible pricing system on DLC hurts profits, both by depressing sales on the DLC itself, AND by discouraging completionists from preordering/buying the subsequent sequel (e.g., DA:I) for full price at launch.)



#2
Vapaa

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Like so many computer/video gamers, I am something of a completionist: I like to finish a game before I start the next one in a series. And I consider any story-driven DLC to be a prerequisite for “completion.” (I'd call my attitude idiosyncratic, but completionists are so common in gaming that that word doesn't apply.)

 

"So many" huh ? but on what scale ?

 

Because people who actually finish a game is actually the minority of the player base, and I'm right in saying that completionists don't make up 100% of that minority. And I'm not even counting the new players who'll start with DAI.

 

So no, and ME3's pre-order figures already counter your point.



#3
J.C. Helios

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"So many" huh ? but on what scale ?

 

Because people who actually finish a game is actually the minority of the player base, and I'm right in saying that completionists don't make up 100% of that minority. And I'm not even counting the new players who'll start with DAI.

 

So no, and ME3's pre-order figures already counter your point.

 

Sorry, but it's harder than that to defeat a point as modest as mine: that they'd sell more copies and take in more revenue if they used price discrimination to sell DLC, and not just the base games.  Name any revenue figure you like, it would still be higher if they took my advice. 

 

The only potential sticking point that I can see is, what if the expense of switching to a new system is greater than the amount that they'd make selling more DLC (including the extra revenue from completionists who then go on to preorder)?  But they already have all that Origin infrastructure, with however many full-time workers assigned to it, so I would be surprised if that really were a problem. 



#4
Wulfram

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I do sometimes wonder if the total lack of sales is down to real considered strategy  or just a lack of attention paid to the Bioware shop.

 

Maybe they think that by never putting it on sale it encourages people to buy immediately rather than just waiting until it's cheap.



#5
AlanC9

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Sorry, but it's harder than that to defeat a point as modest as mine: that they'd sell more copies and take in more revenue if they used price discrimination to sell DLC, and not just the base games.  Name any revenue figure you like, it would still be higher if they took my advice. 

 

Which just means that you shouldn't have brought completionism up in the first place.



#6
XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX

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Just play on console & avoid the points hassle?


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#7
AlanC9

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I do sometimes wonder if the total lack of sales is down to real considered strategy  or just a lack of attention paid to the Bioware shop.

 

Maybe they think that by never putting it on sale it encourages people to buy immediately rather than just waiting until it's cheap.

 

Some retailers have come to the conclusion that sales just train people to wait for the sale.. But I usually hear that in the context of short-term sales, rather than long-term repricing of products.

 

I think the OP's probably right that Bio's leaving money on the table by never decreasing the price of DLCs. They're certainly leaving some of mine there, since I might buy Citadel at $5 but won't buy it at $15. But I don't see what Bio points have to do with anything. Whether the price is set in dollars, euros, or Bio points, they can set it wherever they want.



#8
Urazz

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Yeah, I can see them making some money on lowering the price of DLCs on their older games that they no longer actively work on anymore like they do with ME3 and DA2 for example.



#9
The Baconer

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Bioware points are really still a thing?

 

uggghhhh.


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#10
J.C. Helios

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Which just means that you shouldn't have brought completionism up in the first place.

 

It certainly would have made my point simpler.  But this is the Dragon Age: Inquisition forum, so I had to make it clear how that game will be harmed by DA2's DLCs' rigid pricing, even if DA:I doesn't use Bioware Points. (Edit: Which it may or may not; I haven't heard anything either way.)

 

I think the OP's probably right that Bio's leaving money on the table by never decreasing the price of DLCs. They're certainly leaving some of mine there, since I might buy Citadel at $5 but won't buy it at $15. But I don't see what Bio points have to do with anything. Whether the price is set in dollars, euros, or Bio points, they can set it wherever they want.

 

True; I'm making two inferences:

  • If they get rid of Bioware Points, the replacement will be just selling the DLC on Origin. 
  • If they sell the DLC on Origin, then they'll be much less likely to allow a situation where the base game is discounted but the DLC isn't.

I admit that those aren't rock-solid conclusions, but they seem safe enough.  If you try and sell ME2 for $5 right beside its $31 DLC, or try to sell DA2 for $6 beside its $27 DLC, then eyebrows will be raised. 



#11
AlanC9

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It certainly would have made my point simpler.  But this is the Dragon Age: Inquisition forum, so I had to make it clear how that game will be harmed by DA2's DLCs' rigid pricing, even if DA:I doesn't use Bioware Points. (Edit: Which it may or may not; I haven't heard anything either way.)


I still don't see how talking about completionism helps with that.
 

  If you try and sell ME2 for $5 right beside its $31 DLC, or try to sell DA2 for $6 beside its $27 DLC, then eyebrows will be raised.


But they'd never be right alongside each other unless EA wanted them to be, points or no. If you've won the argument about differential pricing then points don't matter since they'll cut the price whatever the price is denominated in. And if you haven't won that argument nothing's gonna change anyway.

#12
Sylvius the Mad

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If they discontinue BioWare points, they will need to find a way to reimburse people for points currently held.

#13
J.C. Helios

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I still don't see how talking about completionism helps with that.

 

Then I guess I haven't explained very well.  Imagine two alternate worlds:

  • In one world, a gamer plays Dragon Age 2, but doesn't feel like shelling out $27 for all the story DLC.  Instead, he waits for a sale that never comes.  And because this gamer happens to be a certain breed of completionist, he doesn't buy Dragon Age: Inquisition when it comes out.  (He won't ever choose to buy the third game of a series before he has finished to his satisfaction the second game.)  So Bioware gets nothing more out of him ($0); neither the DLC nor the third game are purchased. 
  • In the other world, a gamer plays Dragon Age 2, but doesn't feel like shelling out $27 for all the story DLC.  Happily, Bioware decides to put the story DLC on sale, so he buys it all for $13.50.  Having completed Dragon Age 2 to his satisfaction, he feels free to drop $60 to preorder Dragon Age: Inquisition when it comes out, and does so. 

So in one world (our world), Bioware got $0 more out of the completionist gamer; in the other it got $73.50 more.  ($13.50+$60=$73.50)  Multiply that across all the people who feel as he does about story-based games, and you've got... some sum of money.  I'd like to think that it's enough, on reflection, to motivate Bioware to act. 

 

As you say, they're leaving money on the table.  But it's not just because of the lost DLC sales themselves, but also because of the effect that those lost DLC sales can have on future purchasing decisions within that franchise. 

 

 

But they'd never be right alongside each other unless EA wanted them to be, points or no. If you've won the argument about differential pricing then points don't matter since they'll cut the price whatever the price is denominated in. And if you haven't won that argument nothing's gonna change anyway.

 

Wulfram's explanation is the only one that makes sense to me: They're just being lazy about this, letting the DLC languish on a decrepit corner of their website.  See at the bottom of the page, where it says "Legacy Bioware Social Network"?  That takes you to social.bioware.com, which is where you buy DLC using your Bioware Points.  "Legacy," they say!  They might as well have said "Forgotten," or "Overlooked."  Being on Origin would force them to actually think about pricing during sales. 

 

So, on paper, yes, you're right, they could either offer discounts while keeping the Bioware Points OR sell the DLC for dollars on Origin but still keep the same prices.  But my read on the situation is that they just need a kick in the pants to get them to migrate their DLC to Origin, and the sales will come.  If it doesn't look the same to you, then I suppose that's that.  But I definitely wanted to write my original post, to perhaps provide that kick in the pants. 



#14
robertthebard

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I recently applied my physical copies of Origins and Awakening to Origin, and the first thing I noticed while it was d/ling is that, shock of shocks, the DLC was listed right there on the "i" page. I am a PC gamer, and I don't dislike BioPoints, or the system in general. It is, to me, no different than buying Cartel Coins in their MMO. In fact, I prefer it, as I don't have to input my credit card number any time I want to make a purchase from their store.

This is the first time I've run into "I didn't finish the last game in the series because I didn't like the prices of the DLC, so I won't be buying the next game" argument, and it rings as more of a strawman than a legitimate argument against the point system. In support of this: I have never finished The Witcher, despite having the Enhanced Edition, but I bought the Enhanced edition of The Witcher 2, new. Since I was inclined to buy the product anyway, completion of the first wasn't a consideration. Of note is the fact that I haven't finished the 2nd one either. So I'd surmise that, if a person is inclined to buy the product due to brand name or any other factor, not finishing some DLC won't be a consideration.
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#15
GVulture

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My issue is that I USED to play most of my games on the console, but I have been slowing migrating over to the PC. Not having sales on the DLC means I won't RE-PURCHASE DLC that I previously bought for the console. I will pay full price for it once, but I am sorry there isn't a DLC out there that Bioware has made that is worth more than $20 (which it what it would be the total amount a paid for it for both consoles). Especially bug-tastic Omega. If I could've gotten a refund on the 360 version of that I would have.



#16
AlanC9

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I recently applied my physical copies of Origins and Awakening to Origin, and the first thing I noticed while it was d/ling is that, shock of shocks, the DLC was listed right there on the "i" page.


What's the advantage of doing that? Reinstalling without the discs?

#17
AlanC9

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In one world, a gamer plays Dragon Age 2, but doesn't feel like shelling out $27 for all the story DLC.  Instead, he waits for a sale that never comes.  And because this gamer happens to be a certain breed of completionist,


See, that's where you lose me. I don't think it's likely that there are very many gamers like you. I.E., people who won't play the sequel unless they've played all the DLC (this isn't what "completionist" is typically used to mean; we need a new word), but too cheap to buy the DLC at full price. I don't think there are enough of you to make losing your DAI sales much of a concern, relative to however much money is at stake with the DLC pricing issue itself. If the DLC pricing model they are using is maximizing profits, then they should keep doing that even if they lose out on selling a few copies of DAI to people who think like you; they'll make it up on the DLC side.

They're just being lazy about this, letting the DLC languish on a decrepit corner of their website.  See at the bottom of the page, where it says "Legacy Bioware Social Network"?  That takes you to social.bioware.com, which is where you buy DLC using your Bioware Points.  "Legacy," they say!  They might as well have said "Forgotten," or "Overlooked."  Being on Origin would force them to actually think about pricing during sales.


What are you talking about? I don't get taken to any "Legacy Bioware Social Network" page. Origin's perfectly willing to sell me some Bio points. Or does something funny happen when you actually buy the DLC? Can't test that without buying something.

#18
BloodyTalon

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Need to keep bioware points around or something for future games with mircotransactions like me 3 had.



#19
Sylvius the Mad

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What's the advantage of doing that? Reinstalling without the discs?

Or even playing without the discs.  My DAO copy requires a disc check every time I launch the game.



#20
PsychoBlonde

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My issue is that I USED to play most of my games on the console, but I have been slowing migrating over to the PC. Not having sales on the DLC means I won't RE-PURCHASE DLC that I previously bought for the console. I will pay full price for it once, but I am sorry there isn't a DLC out there that Bioware has made that is worth more than $20 (which it what it would be the total amount a paid for it for both consoles). Especially bug-tastic Omega. If I could've gotten a refund on the 360 version of that I would have.

 

Erm, are you folks aware that the Dragon Age: Origins Ultimate Edition (which contains 100% of the Origins DLC AND the expansion) is available via a number of platforms and involves no Bioware points whatsoever?  Why are you assuming that DA2 won't get an Ultimate Edition of its own once Inquisition hits the shelves?  According to Mark Darrah that was shelved due to a lack of retailer interest, but it could pick up again in the future, particularly once there's a 3rd installment in the series.

The entire premise of this thread is laughably ignorant.  You don't HAVE to buy Bioware points to get the DLC.  And the whole package IS on sale.  Heck, I lost my copy of Awakening and decided to buy the Ultimate Edition because it was CHEAPER than buying Awakening all by its lonesome.  And since it's available on Steam that means, you know, SALES.



#21
The Night Haunter

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This is ridiculously false. I am an active forumite and I barely know about the existence of bioware points anymore. Since 90% of the purchasers will never have even visited these forums I don't really see how you can expect them to know about something even we remain barely aware of.



#22
OynxDragon666

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If they discontinue BioWare points, they will need to find a way to reimburse people for points currently held.

they'd just need to copy what microsoft did when the got rid of their points policy for the xbox 360



#23
J.C. Helios

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What are you talking about? I don't get taken to any "Legacy Bioware Social Network" page. Origin's perfectly willing to sell me some Bio points.

 

I mean that there are old parts of Bioware's website, and new parts.  Everything that starts with social.bioware.com (apart from the splash page itself) is in the OLD part.  There're the old photo albums, the old polls, the old blogs, all now closed, read-only.  There's the place where groups used to be, before they got nuked.  The old forum links redirect here, to the new forums.  And... there's all the DLC. 

 

So when I wonder why the DLC for years-old games still never goes on sale, why it is now often more expensive than the base game itself, why, as PsychoBlonde points out, you're waaaaaay better off just straight-up buying the ultimate edition for the one game where they made an ultimate edition, I have to think that it has something to do with the DLC residing in the nigh-abandoned corner of Bioware's website.  Moving the DLC itself onto Origin and selling it in dollars would fix this problem.  Of course there are other ways to fix it, but that's the easiest. 



#24
robertthebard

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What's the advantage of doing that? Reinstalling without the discs?


I can also play w/out the discs. Which was the whole idea when I set out on this adventure. Now, however, it wants me to authenticate it every time, if I don't launch through Origin, and just use the provided desktop shortcut. Feels like I'm logging in to an MMO.

#25
Pasquale1234

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Dunno about the Bioware Points, but I do think your point about DLC never going on sale has merit.

 

Since the ME trilogy went on sale at a discount, I've been thinking about giving it a go.  I've had a PC copy of ME2 for quite awhile, but haven't bothered to try it out - it was a free gift from Bioware after the release of DA2.  As I understand it, the only f/f romance available is Liara, and you have to have romanced her in ME1 and purchase 'Lair of the Shadow Broker' to have her available in ME2.  There may also be other DLCs that I would want if I ever played it - and as I understand it, MP is required to unlock certain endings for the series.  These sorts of restrictions combined with the 'always full price' nature of the DLCs make the purchase of the trilogy a whole lot less appealing to me.

 

If I did get involved with the series at this point, I would of course be much more likely to purchase future installments.

 

I'm sure they'd rather get full price for the additional content, but for folks like me who have but a modicum of interest in the series, it's a matter of getting a reduced amount of money or none at all.

 

OTOH, allowing consumers to buy into a franchise on the cheap - and then charging full price for additional content - can be a pretty effective business model, too.

 

Shrug.