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[Hanako Ikezawa]

And she also put the blame firmly on the mage's shoulders. She blames them when they are hassled by a bunch of drunk a$$holes.

From the wiki as a summary of the scene:

A huge burly man disturbs the conversation. He growls that mages are cursed: not only did they try to kill Her Holiness, but the local landowner's daughter also burned down the house with her father in it two weeks ago. Other patrons are outraged as well. Adrian starts to cast a spell, but Evangeline interrupts her. The man moves to attack. Evangeline points her sword at him and states firmly that she is here to protect the mages and the folk from each other. Within minutes the crowd dissipates. Out of fear, Evangeline decides they will sleep in the hayloft instead of the inn's rooms.

 

So yeah, she clearly took the mages side. As for the blame, that was at Adrian after she tried to attack the mob with a spell. 

[thetinyevil]

They might be hunted and outright killed in ordinary communities.  How much better would that be?  Would you appreciate a world where some young child who "accidently" throws a fireball is attacked and destroyed by a mob of people, or one where that child is brought into the security of the circle, where he might grow and learn to control his abilities? 

 

And as I recall, Cullen didn't get overly upset with my Hawke when she destroyed Alirk.

That wouldn't happen it not for the Chantry spreading so much hate and fear. As for the Circle they never allowed outside. Never allowed to contact their families, unless their families are rich enough grease the right palms. And they are only let out if they are completely brainwashed and are to old to run and they even then they can't really enjoy it. And there really isn't much security  in Circles, because of templars like Alirk, Karras, and Meredith.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I see the problem. You think the entire system is like Kirkwall. You shouldn't do that. 

[thetinyevil]

From the wiki as a summary of the scene:

A huge burly man disturbs the conversation. He growls that mages are cursed: not only did they try to kill Her Holiness, but the local landowner's daughter also burned down the house with her father in it two weeks ago. Other patrons are outraged as well. Adrian starts to cast a spell, but Evangeline interrupts her. The man moves to attack. Evangeline points her sword at him and states firmly that she is here to protect the mages and the folk from each other. Within minutes the crowd dissipates. Out of fear, Evangeline decides they will sleep in the hayloft instead of the inn's rooms.

 

So yeah, she clearly took the mages side. As for the blame, that was at Adrian after she tried to attack the mob with a spell. 

She was trying to protect herself. And I think at the time she was more interested in protecting the people then the mages. I think at the time if she thought that the towns folks had a chance she would have let them have the mages. Of course she changed by the end of the book but at that time she was not so protect mage mindset.

[phyreblade74]

To be fair "it's either templars or mages running amock" is a false dichotomy. Honestly I'm king of hoping in inquisition we have the chance to end the templar order and put in a system where the mages work to govern themselves but have to face regulation from their government to make sure they are properly teaching the younger mages and that no abuses or funny business is going on, and more freedom for adult mages who have proven ability to resist posession.

 

But that's off topic, sorry.

 

Oh, I'm all about changing the dynamics within the Circles, to better secure mages and magic, so that everyone is safer for it.  There is huge room for Circle reform, anyway. I do not agree, however, that Templars should be removed entirely.  I think their purpose is very valuable.  However, there's as real a chance Templars might fail to live up to their duties and responsibilities, as that a mage can fail and become a terrible threat.

 

I tend to think Cullen exemplifies what Templars are supposed to be, I suppose.  One who's seen the very worst of both mages and Templars, and learned from all of it.  And maybe that's why I find him such a fascinating character.  I can't wait to see what he's grown to be in Inquisition, actually. 

[Eveangaline]

Oh, I'm all about changing the dynamics within the Circles, to better secure mages and magic, so that everyone is safer for it.  There is huge room for Circle reform, anyway. I do not agree, however, that Templars should be removed entirely.  I think their purpose is very valuable.  However, there's as real a chance Templars might fail to live up to their duties and responsibilities, as that a mage can fail and become a terrible threat.

 

I tend to think Cullen exemplifies what Templars are supposed to be, I suppose.  One who's seen the very worst of both mages and Templars, and learned from all of it.  And maybe that's why I find him such a fascinating character.  I can't wait to see what he's grown to be in Inquisition, actually. 

 

While I agree there are plenty of Templars that mean well, I think there's something inherently off about the checking of mages falling to a religious group that preaches that mages are the ones who drove God away. So while maybe something at least sharing some similarities to templars may be in place in the reformed circles, I would rather it be authorities from the countries the circles are in and the mages themselves, rather than chantry run.

[thetinyevil]

I see the problem. You think the entire system is like Kirkwall. You shouldn't do that. 

I know they are not all like Kirkwall, but I doubt the other Circle's are much better. Abuse still happens and I doubt there isn't much that is done to discourage it. Hell depending on how you play Cullen slaughters several mages and apprentices and is sent to another to a small Chantry to recover before he is sent to Kirkwall where he is prompted. Not much punishment there. And that was in Ferelden one of the more lenient Circles.

[phyreblade74]

That wouldn't happen it not for the Chantry spreading so much hate and fear. As for the Circle they never allowed outside. Never allowed to contact their families, unless their families are rich enough grease the right palms. And they are only let out if they are completely brainwashed and are to old to run and they even then they can't really enjoy it. And there really isn't much security  in Circles, because of templars like Alirk, Karras, and Meredith.

 

Bull.  Before the Chantry, you had the Tevinters.  Which is what taught most people how to view and consider mages and magic.  Kirkwall was a city washed in the blood of slaves, mind you.  All for the use of the mages ruling that city.  Lore-wise, the Chantry isn't the architect of people's fear so much as the result of it.

 

But people have long feared magic in Thedas.  And for very very good reason.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That wouldn't happen it not for the Chantry spreading so much hate and fear.

We also have Tevinter and actually dangerous mages to spread plenty of hate and fear. 

 

 

 As for the Circle they never allowed outside. Never allowed to contact their families, unless their families are rich enough grease the right palms. And they are only let out if they are completely brainwashed and are to old to run and they even then they can't really enjoy it.

1) They were until Ander's repeated escape attempts ruined it.

2) Finn wasn't from a rich family and was still very close with his family.

3) Any mage with official business is allowed to leave, like for example the mages who went to Ostagar or Rhys' gang. 

 

 

And there really isn't much security  in Circles, because of templars like Alirk, Karras, and Meredith.

You mean the same Karras and Alrik who had to operate in secret or else they'd get reprimanded? 

[Ispan]

1) They were until Ander's repeated escape attempts ruined it.

2) Finn wasn't from a rich family and was still very close with his family.

3) Any mage with official business is allowed to leave, like for example the mages who went to Ostagar or Rhys' gang.

 

Also, if you side with the mages during the Broken Circle in DA:O you'll later see Enchanters and Apprentices out on the roads with no Templars to guard them.

[Panda]

Which never made a lick of sense to me. Literally the only reason the mages are fighting is because they don't want to all get killed. Orsino twice went to meredith and was all "we'll agree to stricter rules just don't kill us we're not all blood mages" and she said no. Then suddenly a group (that has bethany) comes along and asks for the exact same thing orsino did and they let them go? The fight literally should have ended then. The mages should have just been like "Oh ok we'll stop now since you agreed not to murder people who don't fight, which we asked you to do twice already but I guess third times the charm?" Like literally the mages only demand was 'don't kill us'. The fight had no reason to continue past the templars agreeing to spare those who don't fight.

 

It kiiiinda feels tacked on just so you don't have to kill betheny if you're siding with the templars.

 

However in the scene where Orsino said that there wasn't Cullen around the give his opinion. Cullen was actually against annulling the circle and probaply was really shocked and confused about the happenings at the end of DA2. Maybe Hawke got more pull in that situation too, there was Cullen and Hawke against killing those surrending mages so probaply Meredith had to give up that one. Cause after all she was the only one who wanted annul the circle, well depending how your Hawke was.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

She was trying to protect herself. And I think at the time she was more interested in protecting the people then the mages. I think at the time if she thought that the towns folks had a chance she would have let them have the mages. Of course she changed by the end of the book but at that time she was not so protect mage mindset.

She needed no protection. She was interested in protecting both parties, as is her duty as a Templar. And no, she wouldn't have 'let them have the mages'. To think otherwise is bias-fueled headcanon.

 

 

I know they are not all like Kirkwall, but I doubt the other Circle's are much better. Abuse still happens and I doubt there isn't much that is done to discourage it. Hell depending on how you play Cullen slaughters several mages and apprentices and is sent to another to a small Chantry to recover before he is sent to Kirkwall where he is prompted. Not much punishment there. And that was in Ferelden one of the more lenient Circles.

No, they aren't. DA2 was created to show an exaggerated scenario where the worst of both sides were shown due to the thin Veil. And Cullen never went on a killing spree. The epilogue slides in Origins are rumors, not facts. And Bioware said that one was false. Ferelden is how the average Circle is. 

[Eveangaline]

However in the scene where Orsino said that there wasn't Cullen around the give his opinion. Cullen was actually against annulling the circle and probaply was really shocked and confused about the happenings at the end of DA2. Maybe Hawke got more pull in that situation too, there was Cullen and Hawke against killing those surrending mages so probaply Meredith had to give up that one. Cause after all she was the only one who wanted annul the circle, well depending how your Hawke was.

 

That still doesn't really explain why all the fighting didn't stop then and there. Why not just scream ahead of you as you walk "We've agreed not to kill those that don't fight! We agreed to the terms you gave us two minutes ago!". Preeettty sure most of them would stop right then and there.

 

Although wasn't cullen there the second time orsino offered? Right in front of the steps he's like "stop this meredith, this is madness. This doesn't have to end in death" and Meredith remained coocoo for coco puffs with her templars right there.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't dislike cullen that whole thing just never made sense to me. I just think it's dumb they let you agree to the mages terms finally but for some reason only bethany and two that came with her? It just feels like a cop out letting you side with one group saying they want to kill all the mages without having to kill bethany if she's there.

[thetinyevil]

We also have Tevinter and actually dangerous mages to spread plenty of hate and fear. 

 

 

1) They were until Ander's repeated escape attempts ruined it.

2) Finn wasn't from a rich family and was still very close with his family.

3) Any mage with official business is allowed to leave, like for example the mages who went to Ostagar or Rhys' gang. 

 

 

You mean the same Karras and Alrik who had to operate in secret or else they'd get reprimanded? 

Finn was from a rich family and they paid the right people to keep in contact with him. Mages on official business are usually older and like I said they have to get their job done and return, they can't enjoy the sky, grass or fresh air. Anders wasn't from every Circle and in every circle mages aren't allowed out. Tevinter is only part of the problem the other is the Chantry, they spread hate and fear and I wonder how many of those blood mages would be blood mages if not for the Templars and Chantry.

[thetinyevil]

Also, if you side with the mages during the Broken Circle in DA:O you'll later see Enchanters and Apprentices out on the roads with no Templars to guard them.

There were templars they had just been killed. Also they were being sent as part of the war effort. So that isn't a real good reason to be outside. "Yay outside...where I'm going to die horribly."

[Panda]

That still doesn't really explain why all the fighting didn't stop then and there. Why not just scream ahead of you as you walk "We've agreed not to kill those that don't fight! We agreed to the terms you gave us two minutes ago!". Preeettty sure most of them would stop right then and there.

 

Although wasn't cullen there the second time orsino offered? Right in front of the steps he's like "stop this meredith, this is madness. This doesn't have to end in death" and Meredith remained coocoo for coco puffs with her templars right there.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't dislike cullen that whole thing just never made sense to me. I just think it's dumb they let you agree to the mages terms finally but for some reason only bethany and two that came with her? It just feels like a cop out letting you side with one group saying they want to kill all the mages without having to kill bethany if she's there.

 

Oh I didn't remember this one. Well the whole ending of DA2 is quite messy in my opinion XD I'd love to have compromising opinion, I love compromises but bioware didn't want to give us one ^^;

[thetinyevil]

She needed no protection. She was interested in protecting both parties, as is her duty as a Templar. And no, she wouldn't have 'let them have the mages'. To think otherwise is bias-fueled headcanon.

 

 

No, they aren't. DA2 was created to show an exaggerated scenario where the worst of both sides were shown due to the thin Veil. And Cullen never went on a killing spree. The epilogue slides in Origins are rumors, not facts. And Bioware said that one was false. Ferelden is how the average Circle is. 

From what Alian tells you in Best Severed Cold, the Starkhave Circle was little better then Kirkwall but not by much.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Finn was from a rich family and they paid the right people to keep in contact with him. Mages on official business are usually older and like I said they have to get their job done and return, they can't enjoy the sky, grass or fresh air. Anders wasn't from every Circle and in every circle mages aren't allowed out. Tevinter is only part of the problem the other is the Chantry, they spread hate and fear and I wonder how many of those blood mages would be blood mages if not for the Templars and Chantry.

Where does it say he is from a rich family. I've never heard it so I'm genuinely curious. 

 

As Ispan pointed out, mages in he prime of their life were wandering the roads of Ferelden with no Templar supervision to defend others against the Blight. 

 

We only know of the practices of a few Circles. Ferelden kept them inside because of Anders, Kirkwall kept them inside because it's Kirkwall, and in Asunder they were on the verge of war. 

 

They have good reason to warn people about the danger of magic: magic is dangerous. If people are running around with guns, It's only responsible to warn people about the danger of guns. 

 

There are less blood mages during the time of the Chantry than before the Chantry, because back then blood magic was legal. 

 

 

There where templars they had just been killed. Also they were being sent as part of the war effort. So that isn't a real good reason to be outside. "Yay outside...where I'm going to die horribly."

There were no Templars, alive or dead, on the map in that encounter. Don't make stuff up.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

From what Alian tells you in Best Severed Cold, the Starkhave Circle was little better then Kirkwall but not by much.

You mean the Circle that was burned to the ground by blood mages? Gee, I wonder why the Templars were suspicious before that. 

[Panda]

 and in every circle mages aren't allowed out.

 

I don't think this is exactly true. In Asunder Rhys once mentions how they were able to go shopping once a while, Adrian bought him a mirror in one of these trips, but not anymore when situation was much tenser. I think mages option through the Thedas are very limited but in many circles they had change to get some fresh air once a while. In Ferelden they had even outside activities until Anders one day escaped by swimming XD

[Eveangaline]

Oh I didn't remember this one. Well the whole ending of DA2 is quite messy in my opinion XD I'd love to have compromising opinion, I love compromises but bioware didn't want to give us one ^^;

 

Agreed, it was a bit of a mess. I hear they didn't even want Orsino to go all bloodmage at the end but they got pressured into putting a secondary final boss in so they had to.

 

Yeah compromises can be great, but what's worse is they let you pick one...then suddenly act as if you didn't. I mean why don't the rest of the mages stop fighting? Literally the only thing they asked for was 'we won't fight you just don't kill us' and that got agreed to and then...everyone acted like you hadn't already agreed to that?

 

Honestly it would have made more sense if they just let you threaten the templars to let only bethany live, at least then it would explain why the fight doesn't suddenly end.

[thetinyevil]

Where does it say he is from a rich family. I've never heard it so I'm genuinely curious. 

 

As Ispan pointed out, mages in he prime of their life were wandering the roads of Ferelden with no Templar supervision to defend others against the Blight. 

 

We only know of the practices of a few Circles. Ferelden kept them inside because of Anders, Kirkwall kept them inside because it's Kirkwall, and in Asunder they were on the verge of war. 

 

They have good reason to warn people about the danger of magic: magic is dangerous. If people are running around with guns, It's only responsible to warn people about the danger of guns. 

 

There are less blood mages during the time of the Chantry than before the Chantry, because back then blood magic was legal. 

 

 

There were no Templars, alive or dead, on the map in that encounter. Don't make stuff up.

They do more then warn people of the dangers of magic, they call mages living sin. They say the blight is the fault of mages. And people aren't locked up the rest of their lives for owning a gun.

 

I could have sworn I seen a couple templar bodies on the ground. But is has been years since I've played Origins so I could be wrong.

[thetinyevil]

You mean the Circle that was burned to the ground by blood mages? Gee, I wonder why the Templars were suspicious before that. 

Yes being suspicious gives the Templars the right to beat mages bloody. Also we don't know who set the fire but it was most like ONE blood mage who was completely ****** insane and need to be(and was) killed. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They do more then warn people of the dangers of magic, they call mages living sin. They say the blight is the fault of mages. People aren't looked up the rest of their lives for owning a gun.

 

I could have sworn I seen a couple templar bodies on the ground. But is has been years since I've played Origins so I could be wrong.

No, they call it a gift and a curse. If they saw it as sin, they would have let the first Inquisition and the other mage hunting groups exterminate them instead of make a compromise with the mages thus forming the Circle. 

 

Um, the Blight is the fault of mages. The Tevinter Mgisters did what the Chantry said they did. Play Legacy. 

 

I played it recently, and I saw no bodies. There was the Enchanter the couple apprentices, and Darkspawn. The Enchanter was even making a lesson out of it, so it wasn't like they were freaking out as they would be if the Templars with them died.

 

 

Yes being suspicious gives the Templars the right to beat mages bloody. Also we don't know who set the fire but it was most like ONE blood mage who was completely ****** insane and need to be(and was) killed. 

Please provide evidence. You've been wrong about too many claims that I need proof to believe more. 

 

That one blood mage taught others, like Grace. So a bunch of blood mages. 

[thetinyevil]

I don't think this is exactly true. In Asunder Rhys once mentions how they were able to go shopping once a while, Adrian bought him a mirror in one of these trips, but not anymore when situation was much tenser. I think mages option through the Thedas are very limited but in many circles they had change to get some fresh air once a while. In Ferelden they had even outside activities until Anders one day escaped by swimming XD

Rhys and Adrian where Senor Enchanters and who knows what they had to do to get the right to go outside. 

 

As for Ferelden, if the Circle was such a great place to be, I doubt Anders wouldn't have tried escaping seven times.