58 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

That means you will be able to break the difficulty curve without much effort. That said I really hope they don't level lock places that's just annoying and leads to tedious grinding if it's something you don't need to do. 

[Adaar the Unbound]

I believe that they said since you are the Inquisitor, people won't be giving you orders and telling you to fetch stuff for them.

[AkiKishi]

I believe that they said since you are the Inquisitor, people won't be giving you orders and telling you to fetch stuff for them.

 

Instead the will send you to fetch armies. I want to employ people to do quests for me, you know like in Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced. 

[Altima Darkspells]

I believe that they said since you are the Inquisitor, people won't be giving you orders and telling you to fetch stuff for them.

They'll just kindly suggest that you go fetch something.

That's what real power is. I can see that the Inquisitor will have to fight night and day to keep from going mad with it.

[Hizoku]

Well, to be fair the progression is usually - You've found some old bones. Maybe Bob can tell you about them. Then Bob says "Hey, those are subquesty subquest!". So it's more you magically know they're a quest item.

not in DA2, Hawke always seemed to know the owner of every piece of junk he found throughout Kirkwall..

[Hiemoth]

I'm always kind of curious how the fetch quests in DAO were so much more acceptable than those in DA2 or ME3, which both additionally had so different mechanics that it feels somewhat weird lumping them together. In DAO, you went to a board, were told to visit these places or collect this amount of these things, delivered them and in most cases got nothing but gold in return. At least for me, completing almost all of them involved some level of retreating old grounds. I mean, oh the glory of delivering Banator scrolls without any kind of consequence or getting those supplies back from three semi-identical deserter fights.

 

As for DA2, actually the quest texts themselves rarely specified exactly who to take items, instead trying to reflect Hawke's growing familiarity with the city. The bottle of wine was told being appreciated by collectors in certain areas, this body matches stories of someone missing from the Docks. Implementation-wise they just then highlighted who to take the items to spare the players from having to click on everyone in the area. Was it an ideal solution? No, at least not in my opinion, but it was relatively clear how they were trying to improve among the DAO system, which somewhat amusingly involved a lot more fetching than the DA2 system. And at least in DA2 I didn't have to ponder why the hell would the Irregulars outsource such trivial tasks as tracking down their deserters, delivering fallen in battle notices to widows or go to tell their recruits to turn up.

 

As for what would I wish for DAI? Difficult question, as I have  never been  a fan of fetch quests to begin with. I guess I would lean towards something closer to DA2, where it feels more like a natural reward for just checking everything out and exploring instead of going to a board and then running around delivering things.

[TheWhitefire]

My only issue with the DA2 fetch quests was the lack of unique responses to each quest. Delivering the bones elicited pretty much the same response as delivering ted's lost pantaloons.

There's only one quest I want to see in DAI, and lets just say it involves Gold and Silver pantaloons, and a pair of copper pantalettes.

[Eveangaline]

Depends. Stens personal quest was basically a fetch quest but it was still interesting. (Could have had better loot tho)

[QueenPurpleScrap]

Depends. Stens personal quest was basically a fetch quest but it was still interesting. (Could have had better loot tho)

True. I found a mod that upgrades Asala. Nothing overpowering, just better. And it has a rune slot.

In DAO one nice thing about the fetch quests is that you could easily choose whether or not to accept them.  Some of these quest lines (eg. Mages Collective) had additional quests open towards the end of the game if you did all the ones available to you.

Sure, it would have been easy for the Irregulars to deliver their own letters of condolence but these earlier quests demonstrate your willingness to help their cause. Why trust you with something more meaningful if you can't be bothered to fill the minor requests?

[Vaseldwa]

I like the ME3 way, where you eavesdrop.

 

 

Funny Comic and I love ease dropping but I don't want random side quests flooding my "to do" list!

[PsychoBlonde]

The qunari sword quest... my god.

 

And yet it still managed to be not as bad as that "collect 10 garnets" quest in Origins where you had to save, literally, EVERY GARNET YOU EVER GOT (since they were random treasure) to fulfill the order.

 

At least the Qunari swords didn't take up an inventory slot for the ENTIRE GODDAMN GAME.

 

I thought the fetch quests made sense in Act I of Da2 because you were supposed to be going around metaphorically digging coins out of couch cushions etc. to fund the expedition.  Later in the game when you were supposed to be a wealthy and powerful member of Kirkwall's nobility it made a lot less sense.

 

I don't have a comment about the "automatically know where they go" thing, because that's true of every quest in the game.  It's kind of weird to complain about it being specifically immersion-breaking or whatever for the fetch quests and NOT for EVERY SINGLE QUEST IN THE ENTIRE GAME.

 

btw, it might have been cooler if they had set you a minimum investment goal for Act I and then let you pay over that if you wanted to:  "hey, I'm so awesome and frugal I saved up 85 sovereigns!  Get us some extra supplies/guards/etc!  Then when you get to the Deep Roads you get some kind of benefit from that and you also get a bigger return on your investment--invest 50 sovereigns, you get 50 back.  For every 10 over that you can invest, you get 15 back.  So you could actually "make" some money off the expedition by putting some effort into your cash-gathering early in the game.

[PsychoBlonde]

True. I found a mod that upgrades Asala. Nothing overpowering, just better. And it has a rune slot.

 

 

The vanilla version has a rune slot.

[Hiemoth]

True. I found a mod that upgrades Asala. Nothing overpowering, just better. And it has a rune slot.

In DAO one nice thing about the fetch quests is that you could easily choose whether or not to accept them.  Some of these quest lines (eg. Mages Collective) had additional quests open towards the end of the game if you did all the ones available to you.

Sure, it would have been easy for the Irregulars to deliver their own letters of condolence but these earlier quests demonstrate your willingness to help their cause. Why trust you with something more meaningful if you can't be bothered to fill the minor requests?

 

I do not really understand the first argument, as you can just as easily not do the fetch quests in DA2. You can not deliver the item or you can never even pick it up in the first place. As for opening the future quests, all of them had one quest that was unlocked, which, as said, required you to do all the other tasks, no matter how irrelevant they are to the quest. Unless somehow the Irregulars internal powers struggles requires all of those letters be delivered, as apparently that is a task that shows that you are willing to help usurp power within the group.

 

The fetch quests in DAO require nothing, no individual exploration. You go, you find things or places, and go report back. In some cases, such as the letters, it just requires you to have three identical discussions in three different places, nothing more. The only difference to DA2 was that there was no central board that told you to run around doing meaningless things and that each item did have a little story attached to it, which DAO did not have.

 

Again, this is not in defense of fetch quests. This is an argument against the concept that DAO had somehow more special fetch quests, as they were as simple as it could get for the quest type in question.

[Hiemoth]

And yet it still managed to be not as bad as that "collect 10 garnets" quest in Origins where you had to save, literally, EVERY GARNET YOU EVER GOT (since they were random treasure) to fulfill the order.

 

At least the Qunari swords didn't take up an inventory slot for the ENTIRE GODDAMN GAME.

 

I thought the fetch quests made sense in Act I of Da2 because you were supposed to be going around metaphorically digging coins out of couch cushions etc. to fund the expedition.  Later in the game when you were supposed to be a wealthy and powerful member of Kirkwall's nobility it made a lot less sense.

 

I don't have a comment about the "automatically know where they go" thing, because that's true of every quest in the game.  It's kind of weird to complain about it being specifically immersion-breaking or whatever for the fetch quests and NOT for EVERY SINGLE QUEST IN THE ENTIRE GAME.

 

btw, it might have been cooler if they had set you a minimum investment goal for Act I and then let you pay over that if you wanted to:  "hey, I'm so awesome and frugal I saved up 85 sovereigns!  Get us some extra supplies/guards/etc!  Then when you get to the Deep Roads you get some kind of benefit from that and you also get a bigger return on your investment--invest 50 sovereigns, you get 50 back.  For every 10 over that you can invest, you get 15 back.  So you could actually "make" some money off the expedition by putting some effort into your cash-gathering early in the game.

 

Oh dear Lord the Garnet quest broke me, as it was even a random drop item and there weren't enough garnets in the stores of the game. It was such a bizarre design decision that I am still scratching my head about that.

 

As for the item things, as I wrote earlier, I think it was in a way thought to express how much Hawke followed happening and things around Kirkwall. I think, just as many things in DA2, it just would have needed a better framing device within the game and it would have been received a lot better.

 

By the way, I really like your thought on the money investing thing at the end of Act I in DA2.

[PsychoBlonde]

Oh dear Lord the Garnet quest broke me, as it was even a random drop item and there weren't enough garnets in the stores of the game. It was such a bizarre design decision that I am still scratching my head about that.

 

 

Yeah you basically had to use meta knowledge to save up enough garnets for that one.  I'm pretty sure that qualifies as the worst quest of the series thus far.

[PsychoBlonde]

What might actually be kind of a fun mechanic that is LIKE a fetch quest but not really would be to make it so that you can find items lying around a la DA2 BUT the way you get your money for them is to sell them to *specific merchants*--and you figure out which ones by paying attention to what the merchants sell.  So, say, if you find a special gemstone, maybe you take it to the jewelry merchant.  You can still sell the item to any merchant, it's just that there's a specific merchant who will give you a lot more for it.

 

When you pick up the item the game could give you a "hey, this 70-year-old bottle of Anderfels Schnapps might be worth a lot to someone"--but that's it, no quest marker, no indication of which merchant might give you the best price for it.  If you don't care, you can dispose of it with the other "junk" items at any merchant and not have inventory or quest log clutter.  If you DO care, you can go around town seeing who will buy it for how much.

 

They could even make the whole "junk goods" aspect a lot cooler by having the different merchants IN GENERAL pay different prices for different junk items (just more for the specialty items).

 

Heck, there could even be a mechanic where a given merchant gives you better prices every time you bring them one of their Special items.  Which would add another layer to buying and selling . . . do you sell your loot NOW at the nearest merchant or run across town (or the country) to the one you have the best discount with?  Do you buy that ultra-expensive super-item NOW or see if you can scrounge up an item or two to bring the price down?

 

And if you REALLY wanted to go ABSOLUTELY NUTS you could have the placement of these "junk" items be completely random.  Now you've introduced an entire buying/selling/item-fetching mini-game for almost no effort.  Put in more times when you can throw money at things (or "invest" it in various ways) and you've added an entirely new gameplay element and way to play the game.

[TheWhitefire]

That's what BG and BGII's merchant system was like, and it was a pain in the arse more than anything else, honestly. For instance, you could only sell weapon, armors, waist, bracelet and helm slot items, plus gems and Ankheg shells to the blacksmith in Bereghost, but if you wanted to sell literally any other item to empty your inventory, you had to go to the fancy inn on the other side of town. All this served to do was make emptying your inventory a huge pain in the arse.

Also, it takes away a lot of the flavour of some of that. One thing I really missed in DA:II was the item descriptions, which had been around since Baldur's Gate. Not having those was really disappointing. I actually liked reading about how my simple iron ring has a single monogramed letter on the inside of the band, or how my heavy plate armor is dinged and rusted with age but still functional. It adds a lot to the game and makes the world feel more full and complete.

[Allan Schumacher]

Well the style they used for fetch quests in DA2 and ME3 felt like they were attempting to find a way to have those quests but have them so they could be done more quickly then having to stop and talk to every person and asking if they needed something done. 

 

From that perspective they did work but that did make them feel mundane, the fetch missions in DA2 just became tedious since the items were so random and really didn't give any sense of accomplishing something and the ones in ME3 - while they did aid you with War assets - did still force you to stand around in some instances and wait around for people to begin a triggered dialogue and wait for them to get to a certain point to trigger the quest which for some characters could take longer than the time it would take to talk to them and then skip to the quest dialogue...... plus sometimes it was possible to have multiple dialogue strings trigger at once meaning you lost out on some dialogue you may have been more interested in.

 

Yeah it's part of experimenting with different ways to provide content.  Balancing between giving everyone who has a quest having a big giant marker over their head, and providing incentive/reward for those that engorge themselves in the setting.

 

I think what could have made the ones in ME3 work better is if the player could opt in on speaking up regarding the quest, for instance.

 

As PsychoBlonde points out, in some contexts the style of DA2's works a bit better.  I'm not against the idea of trying something newer and different though, and that does mean that sometimes it's an idea that doesn't resonate quite as well as we thought it might.

 

 

It is interesting as there's a kind of conflict with the completionist perspective.  I'm *not* a completionist, and if a piece of content isn't ultra interesting for me, I stop engaging in it (most of the side quest/planet exploration stuff wasn't really my cup of tea for ME1, for example).  But for the completionist, simply running past a piece of content that they find boring (and they can't skip the dialogue) starts to get really grating for that player.  It's a bit interesting because on the one hand the brain seems to be saying "get everything" while on the other hand the brain is also saying "even though you don't like what you're currently doing."  So it's about trying to find that balance.

[Nyeredzi]

http://28.media.tumb...8kibo1_1280.jpg

[TheWhitefire]

Hrm... I wonder if being able to talk to a person without actually initiating a dialogue window would help? Like, you overhear a conversation about someone's cat missing and you get one of those little markers like you had in ME3 when you overheard arguments. You then can walk over and say something like "Hey, I'll look for your cat" in the flavour of whatever personality you've been exhibiting recently, and then you pick up the quest. But if you really want, you can just skip the whole coversation and just keep on truckin' without cluttering up your Journal.

[AlanC9]

It is interesting as there's a kind of conflict with the completionist perspective.  I'm *not* a completionist, and if a piece of content isn't ultra interesting for me, I stop engaging in it (most of the side quest/planet exploration stuff wasn't really my cup of tea for ME1, for example).  But for the completionist, simply running past a piece of content that they find boring (and they can't skip the dialogue) starts to get really grating for that player.  It's a bit interesting because on the one hand the brain seems to be saying "get everything" while on the other hand the brain is also saying "even though you don't like what you're currently doing."  So it's about trying to find that balance.

 

The romance achievements thread is sort of about this as well, if one thinks of achievements as a kind of content. 

[QueenPurpleScrap]

The vanilla version has a rune slot.

Sorry, I should have said more than 1 rune slot along with stats that make it reasonable to still be using at the end of the game. At least from my perspective.

[Lebanese Dude]

Silly goose.

Youre supposed to get the garnets through pickpocketing.

Can also buy back those you sold.

[PsychoBlonde]

That's what BG and BGII's merchant system was like, and it was a pain in the arse more than anything else, honestly. For instance, you could only sell weapon, armors, waist, bracelet and helm slot items, plus gems and Ankheg shells to the blacksmith in Bereghost, but if you wanted to sell literally any other item to empty your inventory, you had to go to the fancy inn on the other side of town. All this served to do was make emptying your inventory a huge pain in the arse.

 

You completely missed the point.  The point is that the merchants WOULD take your junk, just that you could get MORE for it if you turned in special items or shopped around.  So, if you LIKE that sort of thing, fun mini-game.  If you don't, hit the "sell all" button and BACK TO THE ADVENTURE!!!  But, yeah, an "I only buy metal things" mechanic is super-annoying.  And no, it's not "more realistic".  "More realistic" would be ALL the merchants CATEGORICALLY REFUSING to buy the blood-and-entrail-encrusted pile of armor you got off bandits who all had fleas, lice, and zero access to soap due to their exciting bandit lifestyle.  Heck, the town sanitation commissioner might order you to burn all your "loot" before they even let you in the gate.

[PsychoBlonde]

Can also buy back those you sold.

 

Provided you can remember who you sold them to.

 

I don't do pickpocketing.  I prefer to kill people before taking their stuff.