31 réponses à ce sujet

[Rahelron]

I've just finished to read Dragon Age Asunder and I wanted compliment its author, David Gaider, because it is very good. In fact Asunder is so much better than other videogame franchises inspired books (such as the Assassin's Creed ones), it is good even in comparison with novels written by book only authors. Cheers to you then.

 

I also found the characters very interesting. I especially liked Adrian... I hope I can find her again in the game and maybe recruit her (but I don't see her in the group photo with everyone around the table... what a shame).

 

I have just two suggestions:

• Videogames and cinema are the right place for long combat scenes, but books are not. The screen can show what happens during a fight and by that it can make fighting itself spectacular and interesting, but words cannot. Books are the place for dialogues, schemes, politics and treason, since they are more text heavy than any other medium. What I want to say is: less fighting and more talking in DA books. Orlesian interactions between seekers, templars, the emperess and the divine seem to be very complicated and interesting, why didn't you show more of that in the book and instead focused on long battle scenes?
• I understand that you want to keep the really important events for the videogames, and I strongly agree with your approach. The players would feel stripped of their agency if those who shaped the history of Thedas were the main characters of the books and not the playing character in the videogames. But one of the few complaints that I have with Asunder is that it feels just an intermission: if it was never published it would have changed nothing in the history of Thedas. The White Spire rebellion is just another Kirkwall, the discovery of the way to reverse tranquillity is rendered useless when Pharamond dies without having the chance to teach the ritual to Rhys (if I understood correctly). You should find a way to let the stories in the books have an impact on the history of Thedas, still keeping the main events for the videogames.

Congratulations again for the really good book!

[Althix]

i really don't agree about your statement that words can't describe combat.

 

you should read storm of iron. or something of the Aaron Dembski-Bowden work.

[ReallyRue]

I was under the impression that Rhys had learnt enough of the ritual theory in order to try it himself (or dabble until he figured it out). I think that probably would be a plot point later. I don't think they could set up too much in the book simply because not everyone will read it and you don't want them to lose out when playing the game. The books feel more like they are helping you build an understanding of the world and characters.

 

I think long combat sequences seem to be a given for fantasy books. So long as they are written in an engaging fashion, I don't mind. I think Asunder and The Masked Empire actually managed that pretty well.

[Rahelron]

I think that A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones is the proof that fights are not a given of fantasy sagas. Those books have other problems. but they shurely don't rely on combat scenes to keep the reader's attention: they rely on plot twists, interesting characters, complicated schemes and a lot of sex. And since Game of Thrones is the hugest fantasy hit since Tolkien I would say that other writers do have to learn something from it.

[Deflagratio]

How good a battle in a novel is depends on the reader as much as the author. It's a delicate balance between saying too much and saying too little. You always need to give your readers room for their own imaginations to work on visual interpretations of the event, and in that you can actually immerse the reader in the novel, the same way agency can immerse someone in videogames.

 

To that effect I hold that games and novels/literature are actually very close fundamentally, and furthering that opinion, I'll say that they (Books/Games) are a more powerful form of media because of this shared characteristic of sharing the creation of the experience.

[Wulfram]

The hugest fantasy hit since Tolkien is Harry Potter

[dutch_gamer]

I think that A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones is the proof that fights are not a given of fantasy sagas. Those books have other problems. but they shurely don't rely on combat scenes to keep the reader's attention: they rely on plot twists, interesting characters, complicated schemes and a lot of sex. And since Game of Thrones is the hugest fantasy hit since Tolkien I would say that other writers do have to learn something from it.

ASoIaF also shows that without fights it can become a drag. The last two books are too much about what you regard as strenghts in books and it is criticized by fans of the saga as being too bogged down by politics. There is a reason why a good amount of fans of the books aren't too fond of Daenarys.

The Game of Thrones deviates a lot from the books, only the first season followed it rather well, since season 2 not so much. The series itself focuses much more on sex than the books ever did. I like the series but I do believe they some times butcher too much with no real gain. I wonder how they will tackle books 4 and 5 which are considered the least of the series based on the msin fan site of the books. The main complaints are the politics, long travellogs and little to no action. Book 6 should deal with the latter but GRR Martin is so occupied late with a lot of outside of the books, it is a question if he will ever be able to even finish the saga at the current pace. Not to mention I for one hope he will once again write as he once did instead of getting even worse because he stretches himself too much.

[DumSheeps]

I think words describe better battle scenes than visuals. 

Especially if compared to video games....For example in Dragon age you could not dual wield swords and in books you can... Just saying...

1.Books
2. Movies
3. Games

In terms of fighting.

[Rosey]

I think words describe better battle scenes than visuals. 

Especially if compared to video games....For example in Dragon age you could not dual wield swords and in books you can... Just saying...

1.Books
2. Movies
3. Games

In terms of fighting.

 

Erhm... you CAN duel wield swords in DA:O/A They took the option out in DA2, and I'm not sure if we know yet or not if the option is available in DA:I ;p

[SnakeCode]

I like all of the DA books, and found asunder to be the strongest of the three by far (written by Gaider)

 

My only problem is that it's far too obvious that certain characters are going to get together. I knew that both Fiona/Maric and Evangeline/Rhys were going to "fall in love" from their very first interactions with each other.

[Mockingword]

I haven't read it myself, and I don't really plan to. I had a friend who read it, and said that the action scenes were pretty sub-par.

 

I don't like the fact that Rhys ended up with a woman who physically abused him (when he was co-operating!) and left him in a dungeon to die.

[Han Shot First]

i really don't agree about your statement that words can't describe combat.

 

you should read storm of iron. or something of the Aaron Dembski-Bowden work.

 

Lord of the Rings and A Song of Ice Fire are also two book series I can think of, that that feature both battles and small scale fights or duels, and keep the action interesting.

 

I would disagree that books can't do it as well as film or video games. In fact I'd even say that books usually do it better, because the authors are only limited by their imagination, while the fimmakers and video game devs have to worry about production costs and the technological limitations associated with whatever medium they are working with.

 

Anyway...I haven't read any of the Dragon Age books yet, and have to remedy that. I'm a bit old school when it comes to books and have never ordered one online, and I don't use a Kindle. I buy books in book stores. And for whatever reason, I've never seen any of the Dragon Age books. The Mass Effect books are always on the shelf (I've read all of those except Deception) but never DA.

[TheWhitefire]

I don't like the fact that Rhys ended up with a woman who physically abused him (when he was co-operating!) and left him in a dungeon to die.

From what I recall, she did nothing of the sort. He was under suspicion of murder and decided sneaking out of his room in the catacombs in the middle of the night to check on Cole was a good idea. She didn't physically 'abuse' him. In fact, I don't think Rhys and Evangeline ever once end up in physical conflict, warranted or otherwise, with each other. He is locked in the dungeons, but not on Evangeline's orders, it's on the Lord Seeker's orders. Given Evangeline's opinions on how templars should treat mages, stringing him up and starving him, or ruthlessly beating him would be hugely out of character for her.

[Vaseldwa]

There is nothing wrong with asunder! I have read Asunder many times because its awesome! Mr. Gaider is a genius and a great writer!  Cole brings out the mother in me to be honest (strange I know). Rhys is awesome, adrian I want to smack up side the head! 

[Mockingword]

From what I recall, she did nothing of the sort. He was under suspicion of murder and decided sneaking out of his room in the catacombs in the middle of the night to check on Cole was a good idea. She didn't physically 'abuse' him. In fact, I don't think Rhys and Evangeline ever once end up in physical conflict, warranted or otherwise, with each other. He is locked in the dungeons, but not on Evangeline's orders, it's on the Lord Seeker's orders. Given Evangeline's opinions on how templars should treat mages, stringing him up and starving him, or ruthlessly beating him would be hugely out of character for her.

She knocks Rhys unconscious, even though he is co-operating with her, and even if he wasn't locked up specifically under her orders, there's no indication that she feels even slightly bad about what happened to him. The fact that they end up together is intensely creepy, and if the gender roles had been reversed, a lot more people would be crying foul about it.

[TheWhitefire]

Ah yes, now I remember.

You mean the scene where he snuck out of his room, started throwing fire balls in the basement of a mage tower, then refuses to tell the templars what exactly he was up to. Quite honestly, I'd knock him unconcious too. At that point in time, he seemed like a rather insane man with the power to melt your face with a thought, who is the best possible candidate for the person whose been sneaking around and murdering people in their beds, and who was just sneaking around in the dark acting like a lunatic.

[Mockingword]

Ah yes, now I remember.

You mean the scene where he snuck out of his room, started throwing fire balls in the basement of a mage tower, then refuses to tell the templars what exactly he was up to. Quite honestly, I'd knock him unconcious too. At that point in time, he seemed like a rather insane man with the power to melt your face with a thought, who is the best possible candidate for the person whose been sneaking around and murdering people in their beds, and who was just sneaking around in the dark acting like a lunatic.

Whether or not you think Evangeline has "a good excuse" for attacking Rhys is completely beside the point. The fact is that Asunder presents it as acceptable or even desirable for people to enter into romantic relationships with individuals who have assaulted them in the past.

[Wulfram]

Well, the games think it's OK to romance Zevran, too.

[The Night Haunter]

i really don't agree about your statement that words can't describe combat.

 

you should read storm of iron. or something of the Aaron Dembski-Bowden work.

I'm just gonna quote this because, ADB is an awesome author and everyone should read his stuff.

 

Or Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts, that has some really big/long fight scenes. Even though I prefer the Inquisition trilogy GG is an amazing series. But look the title is Inquistion, you all should read it, lol.

[Rahelron]

ASoIaF also shows that without fights it can become a drag. The last two books are too much about what you regard as strenghts in books and it is criticized by fans of the saga as being too bogged down by politics. There is a reason why a good amount of fans of the books aren't too fond of Daenarys.

The Game of Thrones deviates a lot from the books, only the first season followed it rather well, since season 2 not so much. The series itself focuses much more on sex than the books ever did. I like the series but I do believe they some times butcher too much with no real gain. I wonder how they will tackle books 4 and 5 which are considered the least of the series based on the msin fan site of the books. The main complaints are the politics, long travellogs and little to no action. Book 6 should deal with the latter but GRR Martin is so occupied late with a lot of outside of the books, it is a question if he will ever be able to even finish the saga at the current pace. Not to mention I for one hope he will once again write as he once did instead of getting even worse because he stretches himself too much.

 

I don't think that the A Song of Ice and Fire books become a drag because they don't have enough fights. I think they become a drag because you could read 10% of each book (the right parts) and still understand pretty much everything. Martin writes way too much for what his plot has to offer and has another problem: many times writes a lot of pages about a new character and then makes him die without pretty much any significant story ark to speak of. You read the whole life story of someone, you get interested in him and then he dies without doing anything: those are the parts when you feel you have lost a lot of time reading something useless. Battles are a part of the problem: many of them have little to no significance. You read the chronicles of a whole war and then a single event like the red wedding changes everything and makes everything you've read so far useless. Plot twists are fine as long as you don't abuse them.

[rocsage]

"Videogames and cinema are the right place for long combat scenes, but books are not. The screen can show what happens during a fight and by that it can make fighting itself spectacular and interesting, but words cannot. "

On the contrary.

Louis Cha's works, like those of his peers, show precisely how written words can serve as an appropriate medium for action.

If anything, screens are often so filled with condensed movements that the viewer, without repeated rewind iterations, can only capture the basic flow of events.

[duckley]

Whether or not you think Evangeline has "a good excuse" for attacking Rhys is completely beside the point. The fact is that Asunder presents it as acceptable or even desirable for people to enter into romantic relationships with individuals who have assaulted them in the past.

I am not sure there is any part of Asunder that indicates it is desireable to enter into a romantic relationship with individuals who have assaulted them in the past, as you assert. Maybe I missed something.

Having said that, Evangeline was doing her duty. I would call her actions more an attempt to subdue than to assault Rhys. Be that as it may I doubt the relationship would have or could have developed into a romantic relationship without acknowledgement, forgiveness, and understanding of the previous nature of the relationship.

[TheWhitefire]

Of which there is quite a bit in the books.

[PsychoBlonde]

I was under the impression that Rhys had learnt enough of the ritual theory in order to try it himself (or dabble until he figured it out). I think that probably would be a plot point later. I don't think they could set up too much in the book simply because not everyone will read it and you don't want them to lose out when playing the game. The books feel more like they are helping you build an understanding of the world and characters.

 

I think long combat sequences seem to be a given for fantasy books. So long as they are written in an engaging fashion, I don't mind. I think Asunder and The Masked Empire actually managed that pretty well.

 

Asunder and Masked Empire were ENORMOUSLY superior to The Stolen Throne and The Calling in that respect.

 

Even then, they got NOTHING on R.A. Salvatore for long, boring, drawn-out and pointlessly-repetitive fight scenes.

[Altima Darkspells]

I thought Asunder was good. Not great, but still a fine read.

I feel like a little more time should've been spent on characterization. The characters almost looked like they wanted to evolve and have some depth, but in the end, it just felt that they snapped back into place and fell under your basic clichés.

The main character also seemed a bit of a twit. Like he was surprised that like every other being in the history of history, his choices have consequences.

I liked the Divine, though. I look forward to meeting her in DAI.