26 réponses à ce sujet

[Zeronic007]

I saw a video somewhere of 3 archers and Shale fighting Flemeth. Last playtroughs I did a mage and backstab build but this really appeals to me. The origin (badum tss) of the video came from a DA wiki about effective archery. The numbers make sense but I am having trouble putting it together for the team.

Besides that how should I build all 4 characters. I see aim, Courage and rock aura are needed but futhermore I don't know how to setup and equip characters. And what tactics are they set to?
Last, but not least, I always went to the mage quarter first for them nice permanent stats, but should I go for Shale first now? And then grab some equipment first? An order of quests to follow would be nice as well

Edit; Perhaps I should note that I have everything DLC as well and playing on pc Would like to take my characters with me into awakening (never played that one yet, but I heard you can take people with you).

[Blazomancer]

Is your warden going to be a rogue or warrior? The maximum damage approach for a warrior archer would be full DEX while it'd be full CUNN for a rogue. So after recruiting Leliana and Zevran, putting all of their attribute points in CUNN is a good idea, except for the odd few that you might need in DEX as prerequisite.

For specializations, I'd pick Champion-Berserker for the warrior warden, and Duelist-Bard for the rogue. Also, Duelist and Bard as Leliana's and Zevran's second spec respectively.

Equipping the team with items that boost CUNN, DEX and critical damage is generally a good idea. From that perspective, Felon's Coat, Battledress of the Provocateur, Shadow of the Empire, Helm of Honnleath, Free Scout and Quicksilver Arming Caps, Red Jenny Seekers, Backhands, Angled Strikers, Cadash Stompers, Silverhammer's Tackmasters are great. Similarly, you have the accessories from the DLCs and the legendary ones you buy at a price. I think these are listed in the Wikia article. In the weapons department, my choice would be Far Song, Sorrows of Arlathan and Marjolaine's Recurve. I know the path of acquiring Far Song can be distasteful, but as you're on the PC, you can use the console or mods to get that bow without polluting your karma. For shale, I'd generally equip her with the crystals providing a health regen bonus as she might need to tank at times, although carrying different sorts in the inventory is never a bad idea.

For sustainables, Song of Courage should be sung by the warden first, followed by Leliana then Zevran. Duelist and Rock Mastery can be activated at any time, while Aim should be activated last. Suppressing fire is also nice at times, especially if Shale needed to tank. Also don't forget the power of blood talents from Soldier's Peak, they are simply great.

The tactical setup is pretty much simple - ranged behavior for the archers and cautious for Shale so that she follows the controlled character around with her aura. The archers can be set to target mages first, use Scattershot on clusters, Shattering shot on high armored bosses, and Suppressing Fire if Shale is surrounded. As for Shale, I like her to remain passive, and use stuff like Earthen Grasp, Taunt, Perfect-Precise Striking only if enemies gets near. If you wish, you can use mods that fix Shale's Rock Barrage talent; it's awesome for a ranged party. It might also be beneficial if you use focus firing by using conditions like 'Enemy: Target of X - attack'.

As for the sequence of Quests, yes I think getting Shale as early as possible would be nice, that is even before doing the quests in Lothering. This gives you the chance to fill out her Rock Mastery tree first and acquire the low tier Helm of Honnleath, in addition to the Harvest Fest Ring. The remaining quests can be prioritized depending upon the gear you want to equip, excluding the fact that The Broken Circle is the obvious first choice for folks looking to powergame. From that PoV, doing the Trial of the Crows and The Paragon of Her Kind early on can be beneficial. Also increasing Leliana's approval early to unlock her companion quest can be a good choice. Don't forget to use the Antivan(was it?) Brandy (Feastday gift) on Zevran for a small DEX boost.

Note that if you don't have the preferred Brilliant Crystals for Shale, then you can try Garin's shop in Orzammar commons after level 22 or so, don't remember exactly. The crystals reset upon rentering the area, so you may try a couple of times till you get the sort of crystal you want. Good Luck. Have fun.

[Mike3207]

Specifically, Blood Thirst on Power of Blood is very useful for a Warrior Archer.

Summoned Wolves can Shred and Overwhelm as early as level 7.That'd be very useful to any archer, or even any rogue.

[cJohnOne]

I don't see how a full cunning archer would hit anything.

[Zeronic007]

Ok, I am going to be very annoying her and ask for some specifics. General idea seems ok. But indeed, don't I need dex (rogue) for skills? In what order should I get skills?

And for combat skills I guess master combatant should be my first prio, perhaps some coersion, but overall I don't see a big need for other skills. Herbalism for potions perhaps since I am going in without a healer. If someone could give a lvl based breakdown of chars that would be really great

[Zeronic007]

Doublepost, my apologies. Thinking of going dwarf noble for character reasons. Unless thats a reaaal bad idea.

[Mike3207]

Well, as far as skills, one point in coercion early, then all combat training until you get to 2-4.It depends on how quickly you want to get the final skills for your rogue.You can leave crafting and stealing overall to your NPCs, but there's one quest line that requires the PC to have one point in stealing.You can wait on it though.Also, depending on how many points your rogue, puts in cunning, you may not need as many points in Coercion.You might also put one point in Survival, or more if you like.

You need Dex for your talents, and to equip bows.Equipment is sufficent to have the dex to equip the best bows, but you need to meet the class minimums to use the talents.

Dwarf Noble seems like a good choice, but you won't have strength to use the early origin armor unless you divert a few points into strength.It's a very warrior tank stressed origin.

[DarthGizka]

@ Blazomancer

 

I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around the cunning rogue archer.

 

With Lethality, points can go into Cunning instead of Strength or Dexterity without reducing the attribute bonus to weapon damage; the attendant increase in armour penetration is a nice boon. Cunning fuels Song of Courage; Leliana and Zevran joining the choir and the Warden's insane Cunning score lift the effect out of the homoeopathic realm to where it becomes notable. The resulting attack bonus repairs the hit rate, the damage bonus approaches that of Flaming Weapons (which wouldn't work with ranged weapons anyway), and the bonus to critical chance is where it's all at, multiplying all damage.

 

Is that summary correct? Does the Tainted Blade work with archery? The description does not say anything about melee although the name itself does.

[Blazomancer]

The talent progression for a rogue would vary from person to person depending upon what sort of gameplay style is preferred. Someone might prefer to specialize in stealth as early as possible while someone might focus on offense. One might even sell the Reaper's Cudgel and buy two extra talent tomes from Bodahn gaining a defininte advantage. Anyway, I'll share a stealth based approach that I think should work.

 

 

1. Coercion (Skill), Melee Archer, Rapid Shot
2. Improved Combat Training (Skill), Shattering Shot
3. Stealth
4. Expert Combat Training (Skill), Suppressing Fire
5. Stealthy Item Use, Scattershot (Joining Bonus)
6. Master Combat Training (Skill), Below the Belt
7. Duelist (Specialization), Dueling
8. Improved Coercion (Skill), Aim/Combat Stealth
9. Aim/Combat Stealth
10. Survival (Skill), Deadly Strike
11. Lethality
12. Improved Survival (Skill), <Talent point not allocated>
13. <Not allocated>
14. Expert Survival/Stealing (Skill), Bard (Specialization), Song of Valor, Distraction, Song of Courage
15. Defensive Fire
16. Any skill, Master Archer
17. Master Stealth
18. ................
19. ................

Depending on when you buy the tomes, you can speed things up a bit. Also, instead of picking stealth, you might want to ignore it and focus on the second tree of Archery, although Shale-centric archery is most effective with autoattacks with the occasional scattershot. You can also learn the Deft Hands talents if you want to pick locks and/or disarm traps early, but that is ultimately a waste, since you'll have Leliana in the party and she already comes with two (or one?) point in that tree.

 

 

 

 

@DarthGizka - Yup, that's pretty much it. Tainted Blade does work with archery.

[Zeronic007]

Heey all, I got a character creator somewhere and tried figuring it out So some feedback would be appreciated

 

Warden: Dwarf Noble Rogue

Dex 22(+2 Duelist + 4 Fade)= 28, Enough for Master archer 

Cun, Max. Just switch Cun and Dex in the beginning, then go full Cun?

Skills: Coersion 1, Combat training 2, Combat training 3, Survival / Trapmaking 1, Combat 4, Coercion 2,  Coersion 3, Survival for the rest

Talent:  Everything up to Master Archery, Everything up to Scattershot, Everything up till Evasion, Everything up till Keen defense, Everything up till song of courage.

Lethality and Master archer are the prime points, Shattering fire and suppressing fire are good options early on too. As leftovers, perhaps deft hands?

Keeping Song, Dueling and Aim always up, Opressing fire if needed

Far song

Felon's Coat

Helm of Honnleath

Red Jenny Seekers

Cadash Stompers

The High Regard of House Dace

Guildmaster's belt

Dusk Ring

Key to the city

 

Lelliane

Pretty much the same approach as the warden, although having a headstart in Bard. Switching some skills for combat tactics perhaps.

Marjolein'se Recurve

Battledress of the Provocateur

Quicksilver Arming Cap

Backhands

Silverhammer Tackmasters

Seeker's Circle

Andruil's blessing

Silverleaf

Wicked Oath

 

Zevran

A bit harder this one. If I recall correct he starts out in Assasin. Marked for death is about the only usefull talent in there since the rest revolves around backstabs.

Perhaps instead I could put more points into Deft hands. 

All points into Dex 

The sorrow's of Arlathan

Shadow of the Empire

Free Scout Arming Cap

Angled Strikers

Silverhammer Tackmasters

Pearl of the Anointed

Mixed Metal Rounds

Harvest Festival Ring

Ring of the warrior

 

Shale

Full Constituion? No idea The entire combat training and tactics tree for skills. For talents, The warrior's powerfull tree up till deathblow and the entire rock mastery tree.

Regen crystals were the way to go as said earlier, Althought the smaller ones need strenght. There ain't a lot that can be said about Shale.

 

 

I still need to actually start up this game and see how tactics work again. Perhaps after that I can give an example a full tactics setup.

Thanks for the help from everyone so far.

[Zeronic007]

Whups, and now I see Blaze was so nice to give a breakdown as well. Stupid long post etc Opinion's still appreciated

[Blazomancer]

Yup, any sequence you prefer is fine as long as it fits your playstyle.

Regarding the equipments, it'd be better for the warden if you swap Guildmaster's Belt with Leliana's Andruil's Blessing. Also, it'd be optimal if you specialize Leliana in the Deft Hands tree at the early stages and ignore it for the others. It's worth noting though that Trap Disarming is most effective with Stealth. So a single character having some skill in both departments is desirable. You can refer to the Wikia entries on Deft Hands to find out how many points in that tree you'd need to handle everything that the game will throw at you. Technically a CUNN focussed warden don't really need any point in the Deft Hands tree to handle locks and traps by endgame; nor in Coercion for that matter. But things remain dicey initially and till midgame. Personally, I'd probably get two points for Leliana to handle matters early on, and one point for the warden to take over later.

As for Shale, get Taunt and fill out the Rock Mastery tree asap. For attributes, get enough STR and CON to be able to equip Brilliant crystals, and spend the rest anyway you wish, doesn't really matter much.

[Zeronic007]

Hmm Still Strugginling a bit with the tactics for Shale, mainly because he doesn't have many slots yet.

So far I have.

Warden/ Lelianna (or Lelliana, always mix it up): Ranged

1. Self: Hp <25% > Use Strongest Health Potion

2. Self: Any > Activate: Song of Courage

3. Self: Any > Activate: Dueling

4. Self: Any > Activate: Aim

5. Self: Being attacked by a melee attack > Dirty Fighting

6. Enemy: High or Medium armor rating > Shattering Shot

7. Enemy: Clustered with at least 5 allies > Scattershot

8. Enemy: Target of Controlled Character > Attack

 

Zevran: Ranged

1. Self: Hp <25% > Use Strongest Health Potion

2. Self: Any > Activate: Song of Courage

3. Self: Any > Activate: Aim

4. Self: Being attacked by a melee attack > Dirty Fighting

5. Enemy: Target Rank is Elite or Higher > Mark of Death

6. Enemy: High or Medium armor rating > Shattering Shot

7. Enemy: Clustered with at least 5 allies > Scattershot

8. Enemy: Target of Controlled Character > Attack

 

Shale: Passive

1. Self: Hp < 25% Use Strongest Health Potion

2. Enemy: Between Short and Medium Range > Taunt

3. Self: Any > Activate Threaten

4. Self: Any > Activate Rock Mastery

5. Enemy: Clustered with at least 3 Allies > Hurl Rock

6. Enemy: Target at Short Range > Attack

 

Im trying to work in Supressing fire in the ranged tactic but there is no > Shale, clustered with X or more enemies tactic.

What do you think?

[Blazomancer]

You can try something like "self:mana<x - activate: suppressing fire" for your archers, so that it triggers almost every battle. There is no real drawback for keeping it permanently sustained if you can spare the stamina. As an alternative you might want to turn on suppressing fire only when there is a boss or higher ranked enemy present. "Shale: Health<X" could also possibly be an option.

If you are into Mods, you can try out the Advanced Tactics mod. You won't go back to vanilla once you do.

[Zeronic007]

Not really a fan of modding. But ill try the other tactics .

[Mike3207]

Saw this on the Story forum, page 372-regarding Shale as Archer:


Self Any: Activate Rock Mastery
Enemy using magic: Hurl Rock
Enemy using melee: Earthen Grasp
Enemy using ranged: Rock Barrage

"I recommend it a lot

There is rarely a lone archer, so Rock Barrage disables them and damages them sort of like earthquake. Earthen Grasp is an AOE petrify that petrifies ALL nearby enemies and with no friendly fire. Hurl Rock knocks out any magic users.

Sorry if this is way common knowledge but just thought I'd recommend it if people haven't tried Shale as archer/rock. He is far better this way even if the option was to be the tank alone, because of the MASSIVE crowd control rock mastery provides."

Modifié par Mike3207, 14 juin 2014 - 01:15 .

[Zeronic007]

Nope, I have been out of this game for a LOOONG time. And on Gamefaqs the information ain't so clear as here.

[Zeronic007]

Bothering you guys again . I am halfway trough the game, already having lots of goodies. Im trying to grab the sorrows of arlathan bow now, so I started witch hunt, will do golems of amgarrak after that. 

I saw that witch hunt brings new class specializations. These are also present in awakening. 

I never played awakening, but I heard archers are baddass there, and I wondered if I can make a similar party. What are your recommendations? And what specialization should I grab then, shadow, or legion?

Edit: It seems that archers in awakening are mainly dex based. Still, I see a couple of full archer builds with legion specialty. It seems to be popular, yet I see no record on the forum for this team somewhere, any leads?

[Blazomancer]

Yes, you can make a similar party in Awakening, except for Shale. She won't be there. I'd prefer Legionnaire Scout over Shadow for an archer. Shadow is more useful for melee characters. As you've found out, being DEX focussed is the most rewarding route for an archer in Awakening. Worth mentioning though that warrior archers with the Spirit Warrior specialization can be even more deadlier, especially if there is a mage in the party to hex the enemies.

[Zeronic007]

Ok, and 1 final one... ( for now.) I noticed loads of great Runes in Witch Hunt etc. Yet the runes in Origins kinda... suck? Is it worth using any? Say paralyze rune? Or should I wait till awakening and do something decent with it

[Blazomancer]

The runes in Awakening are very powerful. But since you are playing an archer, you'll have to make do with armor runes alone. There are numerous to choose from; Reservoir runes for the rogue archer and Amplification runes for the spirit archer is a cool choice, synergizes well with some of their talents.

[Zeronic007]

Yes, you can make a similar party in Awakening, except for Shale. She won't be there. I'd prefer Legionnaire Scout over Shadow for an archer. Shadow is more useful for melee characters. As you've found out, being DEX focussed is the most rewarding route for an archer in Awakening. Worth mentioning though that warrior archers with the Spirit Warrior specialization can be even more deadlier, especially if there is a mage in the party to hex the enemies.

Hmm yeah, I am stuck with at least 1 warrior archer in awakening. Spirit warrior looks awesome. What should I choose for the other specializations. Warrior's don't have find weakness so I have some leftover points. Besides that, champion seems nice . Perhaps combine it with berserker and Second wind? Any other talent tips?

[Blazomancer]

Pick anything you like, doesn't make much difference. Champion and Berserker would be my choice though.

[Zeronic007]

Hmm seems you need a melee weapon for berserk so thats a no go.... Ill post a setup later for re evaluation

[Blazomancer]

If you prefer, you can activate it with melee weapons and then switch to ranged.