855 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

Just so I am better understanding, it is discriminatory to not release games on various platforms too? (I am a P gamer and have never felt like a 2nd class citizen) Does this also include not releasing across the world? The term is being applied much more liberally than I am used to. What about thing like early access and crowd funding pledges?

[Dragoonlordz]

Just so I am better understanding, it is discriminatory to not release games on various platforms too? (I am a P gamer and have never felt like a 2nd class citizen) Does this also include not releasing across the world? The term is being applied much more liberally than I am used to. What about thing like early access and crowd funding pledges?

 

I am using it liberally and the DLC policy is a minor form of it to me, it is my perception and my line in the sand which I have drawn and I gave my reasoning behind that line in earlier posts. The definition of the word fits the example I gave in my opinion. You have to decide where your own line in the sand is drawn. I am not a dictator, I cannot dictate what you believe but I gave my reasoning and explained my logic about this DLC policy on multiple levels across multiple posts in here already and it should be taken as customer feedback. What you do with that feedback is up to you.

 

The world is not black and white it is more akin to shades of grey, what is considered acceptable today might be considered unacceptable tomorrow, whether the change is negative and comes from a group consensus based around shared bigotry or ignorance, or positive change through shared understanding and compassion. The lines in the sand are constantly moving of which we all have to draw our own line and while sometimes it pushes change in the right direction, other times it is the wrong direction. Which direction is right or wrong depends on the person. I myself have made my opinion known on which direction I consider the right one.

 

My belief is all your customers should be shown equal respect regardless of which platform the game is released that they might own, should not be forced into a tiered level of quality or care because of a bribe from a third party of which I consider a compromise of ethics (personally if it was me) and while some agree with me and others do not, some who have drawn the same line in the sand while others have not...maybe enough people will feel the same way as I do some day and this policy of giving one portion of your fans preferential treatment over another because of a bribe despite your fans on the other platforms having predominantly paid the same price for your game as the ones getting the preferential treatment, the other platform owners having equally as much history with your company and devotion to your games as the ones getting the preferential treatment...my hope is such a policy that enforces and promotes this inequality and tiered level of quality service will come to an end.

[Allan Schumacher]

I am using it liberally and the DLC policy is a minor form of it to me, it is my perception and my line in the sand which I have drawn and I gave my reasoning behind that line in earlier posts. The definition of the word fits the example I gave in my opinion. You have to decide where your own line in the sand is drawn. I am not a dictator, I cannot dictate what you believe but I gave my reasoning and explained my logic about this DLC policy on multiple levels across multiple posts in here already and it should be taken as customer feedback. What you do with that feedback is up to you.

 

If you're going to call me an immoral person, I'm going to need to be pretty clear on your position.  So lets keep this short and brief in our responses if possible to prevent me from getting lost in the explanations.

 

EDIT: Lets take this to PM actually.

[DiscoGhost]

its purely politics and out of biowares hands. i undestand the system so im not going to gripe at someone who has no control over it. 

 

dragoonlordz, if you really wana take your complaints to the correct group it should probably be focused at EA or microsoft. 

[Dragoonlordz]

I may do that anyways. I am not sure who I would talk to about this with them but I have no problem also confronting them on the policy and will probably do so later.

[Exaltation]

Good game will make good sales.
2 conclusions remain: DAI gonna be bad game or EA shoves money to pockets already full lol.

BW: EA Y U MAKE DLC EXCLUSIVE XBOX?!
EA: ZE MONEY!
BW: But gamers on other platforms will be upset.
EA: TINK OF ZE MONEY!
BW: But ...
EA: MmmMMOoOOoOooONNnNnNNnEEeEEeEYYyYyYYyYy!!!
BW: *backs away slowly*

[Dan Fango]

Just so I am better understanding, it is discriminatory to not release games on various platforms too? (I am a P gamer and have never felt like a 2nd class citizen) Does this also include not releasing across the world? The term is being applied much more liberally than I am used to. What about thing like early access and crowd funding pledges?

Those things are not equal Allan and trying to muddy the waters so doesn't move things on any. Here's the thing: if BioWare don't want to field (or acknowledge) complaints about the double standards inherent in rolling out something as partial as Xbox timed exclusive DLC, don't do it. Same goes for retail exclusives, price gouging, skewed DLC sales and all the rest of it.

Just treat people the same. Problem solved!

[Rawgrim]

What kind of DLC is it, anyway?

[Dan Fango]

What kind of DLC is it, anyway?

Ask Xbox owners at launch

[Ieldra]

Here's my take on this:

 

(1) Is this hugely annoying, grossly unfair and a kick in the face of PC players (i am one btw)? Yes.

(2) Will this impact my opinion of EA as a game publisher (as opposed to my opinion of the games they publish)? Yes - though that couldn't get much worse. The only good thing I have to say in that regard is that EA isn't UbiSoft.

(3) Is this a critical flaw? No - if everyone gets the temporarily exclusive content eventually, and not too far down the line.

(4) How I will perceive it will also depend on what kind of DLC it is. Delays in story-relevant DLC will be much more annoying.

 

Also, as for how I'm reacting to these things as a customer: they won't affect DA or any other franchises I'm already invested in. But if I see a new game and my first reaction is "Hmm...might be worth a closer look", seeing the EA logo may make me back off and look elsehwere. It isn't as if games worth a closer look are all that rare. 

[Il Divo]

Those things are not equal Allan and trying to muddy the waters so doesn't move things on any. Here's the thing: if BioWare don't want to field (or acknowledge) complaints about the double standards inherent in rolling out something as partial as Xbox timed exclusive DLC, don't do it. Same goes for retail exclusives, price gouging, skewed DLC sales and all the rest of it.

Just treat people the same. Problem solved!

 

Are they not equal? Because Allan's example is a perfect demonstration of treating people unequally, so to speak. 

[Dan Fango]

Are they not equal? Because Allan's example is a perfect demonstration of treating people unequally, so to speak.

I'm not sure I follow, but will say again that it's the inequity of BioWares decision to strike a deal which serves only a section of their fanbase which is the problem here.

[DisturbedJim83]

Just so I am better understanding, it is discriminatory to not release games on various platforms too? (I am a P gamer and have never felt like a 2nd class citizen) Does this also include not releasing across the world? The term is being applied much more liberally than I am used to. What about thing like early access and crowd funding pledges?

Not really the same thing Alan, Early Access and Crowd funding are specific to the PC sector and its the customer who gives the money not a developer/Publisher/Corporation and said games are available to all PC players equally,DAI has become the exact opposite of this by accepting money from MS in order to give Xbox owners priority,it does not matter if the priority given is 1hr or 1 day or 1 month or a year the fact is priority has been given in exchange for money from a Company.

 

In this instance PC and Playstation customers are asked to pay the same price for the product as the Xbox Customers and then told "sorry you have to wait X amount of time more because money money money" which is a insult to all PC and Playstation customers who suddenly find themselves being treated as lesser customers because Microsoft threw money at EA, that is before you get to issues specific to UK customers like having to wait 3 extra days to play the game they can preload at the same time as the American customers while being charged $101 for the same game American customers get for $60.

 

While this is not directed at you Alan or any Bioware Employees since it EA's greed that has caused this, I ask you this is it fair that a section of your playerbase is given preferential treatment on something as arbitrary as the platform they play on and where they live ?.Star Citizen is a case of Early Access done well, all of its playerbase is treated equally regardless of geographic location content is not held back or intentionally delayed by region and pricing is adjusted for region when I buy a ship package for $125 I am charged the UK rate of £75 so I pay no more than a USA customer pays.Whereas EA can't be bothered and just takes the USA price of $60 and just swaps the dollar sign for a pound sign meaning I pay $42 more then a american customer 

[Dragoonlordz]

Not really the same thing Alan, Early Access and Crowd funding are specific to the PC sector and its the customer who gives the money not a developer/Publisher/Corporation and said games are available to all PC players equally,DAI has become the exact opposite of this by accepting money from MS in order to give Xbox owners priority,it does not matter if the priority given is 1hr or 1 day or 1 month or a year the fact is priority has been given in exchange for money from a Company.

 

In this instance PC and Playstation customers are asked to pay the same price for the product as the Xbox Customers and then told "sorry you have to wait X amount of time more because money money money" which is a insult to all PC and Playstation customers who suddenly find themselves being treated as lesser customers because Microsoft threw money at EA, that is before you get to issues specific to UK customers like having to wait 3 extra days to play the game they can preload at the same time as the American customers while being charged $101 for the same game American customers get for $60.

 

While this is not directed at you Alan or any Bioware Employees since it EA's greed that has caused this, I ask you this is it fair that a section of your playerbase is given preferential treatment on something as arbitrary as the platform they play on and where they live ?.Star Citizen is a case of Early Access done well, all of its playerbase is treated equally regardless of geographic location content is not held back or intentionally delayed by region and pricing is adjusted for region when I buy a ship package for $125 I am charged the UK rate of £75 so I pay no more than a USA customer pays.Whereas EA can't be bothered and just takes the USA price of $60 and just swaps the dollar sign for a pound sign meaning I pay $42 more then a american customer 

 

Well said. The one thing I feel differently about is I am not 100% sure Bioware is faultless simply because I have no way of knowing if anyone at Bioware played any part in brokering or signing off on the deal. It could be the case that Bioware played no part in it but I honestly have no way of knowing if that is the case so I cannot solely in good conscience say it was all EA's fault when I have no proof about how this DLC policy came about. Likewise I cannot blame specific members of the DA team either because I have no proof that any specific individual played a part on the enabling of this tiered policy of service towards their own fanbase which is not based on the amount you pay for the game or your history of devotion to the franchise or company but instead based on a third party corporate bribe.

[Darvins]

Heres a question would you still feel it unfair if the fact they could get a Timed Exclusivity DLC agreement was a factor in the budget alloted to the DLC, that is, that it would be a smaller DLC or a more expensive one, without that contract, and that fact applied to everyone equally? As I reckon theres a good chance at least some of the Budget for the game and/or it's DLC was influanced by what deals EA could make in regards to it.

[SofaJockey]

In this instance PC and Playstation customers are asked to pay the same price for the product as the Xbox Customers and then told "sorry you have to wait X amount of time more because money money money"

 

...specific to UK customers like having to wait 3 extra days to play the game they can preload at the same time as the American customers while being charged $101 for the same game American customers get for $60.

 

...EA's greed that has caused this, 

 

Wow...

 

I've been following the various conversations with Allan and I must say I find the use of the term 'discrimination' in this section of the thread to be misapplied.

 

If you think of it as Xbox owners get some extra stuff because it has been funded outside of the company. But everyone gets it for free later, that's much better headcanon. It's not that a piece was cut out and held back surely.

 

The Friday release reason is here: http://www.eurogamer...sed-on-a-friday

 

And you're blaming differential costs on EA rather than indirect tax rates, shipping and local markets, that does strike me as a conspiracy theory that fails to understand international retailing.

[Dragoonlordz]

Heres a question would you still feel it unfair if the fact they could get a Timed Exclusivity DLC agreement was a factor in the budget alloted to the DLC, that is, that it would be a smaller DLC or a more expensive one, without that contract, and that fact applied to everyone equally? As I reckon theres a good chance at least some of the Budget for the game and/or it's DLC was influanced by what deals EA could make in regards to it.

 

I consider that sort of question a tricky and dubious one in the sense any company can say after making the deal that had the deal not happened they would not have invested as much but prior to the deal and prior to the question, there is no guarantee that would of been the case that they would of invested just as much had the deal not taken place.

 

I personally believe and I think would be reasonable to assume that given all the press and news, fan feedback and reaction across many sites towards DA:I being a very highly anticipated and so far looking to be one of the two biggest RPG's for end of 2014, early 2015 period...that there is no question it will be an extremely profitable game and worthy of such investment from EA without the back door deal to (maybe or maybe not) improve the DLC to same extent this bribe might allow for. For all we know however the bribe is not even going towards the DA:I project and is lining the back pockets of EA for use in other projects or parts of the business. It may not even reach any other studio or be put towards any future game as it may just fill the bank accounts of EA's own deal brokers and CEO's or shareholders.

 

Yes EA might make slightly less profit in not taking the bribe but by all accounts it looks like DA:I is going to be an extremely profitable game and one worthy of them making the investment without giving preferential treatment to one group of the fan base over another to gain that corporate bribe. Equality sometimes comes at a cost but that does not make it not worth fighting for.

[DarthKaldriss]

I think what we have here is a massive case of FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS.

  Well that or a bunch of entitlement junkies.

[Dragoonlordz]

I think what we have here is a massive case of FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS.

  Well that or a bunch of entitlement junkies.

 

Not at all, a person is more than capable of caring and doing what little they can on many different issues both big and small at the same time.

 

Just because you take a stand on consumer issues does not mean you are not also and do not also take a stand on larger/different issues.

[DarthKaldriss]

Not at all, a person is more than capable of caring and doing what little they can on many different issues both big and small at the same time.

 

Just because you take a stand on consumer issues does not mean you are not also and do not also take a stand on larger/different issues.

  The thing is your not in the slightest way effected in any way shape or form by this decision. All that will happen is this DLC will come down the line somewhat later.   Now I know this is the give me it all NOW generation but with all the serious s**t going down in the world at this moment timed DLC bothers you?  Hell it may not even be good dlc maybe some reskins and such that seems to pass for a lot of game companys DLC nowadays.

            I'm sorry you just seem to be rather obsessed with a minor part of the game of which we ppl not buying the XBone version will eventually be able to get. I'm narked I'm having to wait till Friday for the UK release but I'll not lose any sleep over it. Lets be honest, you will not change my mind over this and I doubt I'll change yours so we can at least agree to differ.

[Dragoonlordz]

  The thing is your not in the slightest way effected in any way shape or form by this decision. All that will happen is this DLC will come down the line somewhat later.   Now I know this is the give me it all NOW generation but with all the serious s**t going down in the world at this moment timed DLC bothers you?  Hell it may not even be good dlc maybe some reskins and such that seems to pass for a lot of game companys DLC nowadays.

            I'm sorry you just seem to be rather obsessed with a minor part of the game of which we ppl not buying the XBone version will eventually be able to get. I'm narked I'm having to wait till Friday for the UK release but I'll not lose any sleep over it. Lets be honest, you will not change my mind over this and I doubt I'll change yours so we can at least agree to differ.

 

I am perfectly fine agreeing to disagree, I mentioned before my comment on the policy is merely customer feedback. I also stated I know some people agree with me and some do not and that I cannot dictate what others believe. My hope in the long run is enough people feel the same way as I do about such policies and maybe, just maybe things will change but I do not hold a grudge against those who do not hold that same belief. We are all unique, we all have different opinions on what is good and bad, right or wrong and what I said before in here is just my on opinion on those things.

[DisturbedJim83]

Heres a question would you still feel it unfair if the fact they could get a Timed Exclusivity DLC agreement was a factor in the budget alloted to the DLC, that is, that it would be a smaller DLC or a more expensive one, without that contract, and that fact applied to everyone equally? As I reckon theres a good chance at least some of the Budget for the game and/or it's DLC was influanced by what deals EA could make in regards to it.

I'd still feel its unfair since unless MS threw tens of millions at EA which I doubt and even then it would be pocket change to EA,Any DLC would have likely been allocated part of the budget already especially if its story DLC.

 

It still does not address the issue of Why EU Digital customers have to wait 3 extra days since we can download the game on the same day as USA customers can, we're just locked out of playing the game that is on our hard drive by a time check so the whole argument of "annoying brick and mortar stores" does not hold water since a UK customer can have the full game installed on their Hard Drive 3 days before the official EU release date.There is no reason why EU "Brick and Mortar" can't release on the same day as the USA they have done it before and simply refuse to and the industry panders to them. 

[Jaspe84]

fact is that without change we would still be living in caves or worse, that being said i think it might be about time we changed this "tuesday/friday" release date nonsense. I would think that in this time of digital distribution and very efficient logistics systems we might get it done but it will most likely depend on the willingness of the people that has the money and power to change these things although the movement of change has to start somewhere so might as well start here, right?

 

...but at the end of the day life is not fair and that will never change.

[Dan Fango]

The thing is your not in the slightest way effected in any way shape or form by this decision. All that will happen is this DLC will come down the line somewhat later.   Now I know this is the give me it all NOW generation but with all the serious s**t going down in the world at this moment timed DLC bothers you?  Hell it may not even be good dlc maybe some reskins and such that seems to pass for a lot of game companys DLC nowadays.
    
I'm sorry you just seem to be rather obsessed with a minor part of the game of which we ppl not buying the XBone version will eventually be able to get. I'm narked I'm having to wait till Friday for the UK release but I'll not lose any sleep over it. Lets be honest, you will not change my mind over this and I doubt I'll change yours so we can at least agree to differ.

Er, no! If you're not overly fond of timed exclusives, retail exclusives, price gouging, skewed DLC's and all the rest of it, you absolutely should let BioWare and EA know how you feel.

[Il Divo]

I'm not sure I follow, but will say again that it's the inequity of BioWares decision to strike a deal which serves only a section of their fanbase which is the problem here.

 

Essentially, I'm suggesting that there has never been the equity displayed by Bioware that some fans assume there to be. For similar value, my Xbox copy of Skyrim isn't as pretty as the PC rendition, nor does it have modding capabilities. Historically-speaking, Bioware has more than a few PC releases as well, which have come onto the market far after their console brethren (Ex: Jade Empire).

 

And on top of that, the very concept of console exclusives is everything which people seem to hate about timed dlc taken to the extreme. I've said this before in other threads, but I'd rather deal with timed exclusive dlc than deal with never getting to play certain games as a result of console exclusivity. As a consumer, that hurts me far more.