273 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

We have to remember that it wasn't as simple as "humans arrive, humans and elves get angry at each other, puny little humans crush the elves in one blow". Centuries passed between these events, enough for a mighty civilization like the Tevinter Imperium to rise at the expense of the elves.

There were 4500 years between the founding of Arlathan and the first arrival of humans. That's about the same amount of time that has passed since the beginning of civilization in the real world. For the elves to lose, they were either stagnant to ridiculous levels or humans advanced at an equally ridiculous pace, while the elves just sat in a corner and watched.

 

Or the game was rigged. That's always a possibility.

[The Ascendant]

Based upon codex entries the Dalish have a somewhat picturesque view of their ancient history. Would they rebuild Arlathan society exactly or would theylthey learnearn from their mistakes and try for something better?

[LobselVith8]

Based upon codex entries the Dalish have a somewhat picturesque view of their ancient history. Would they rebuild Arlathan society exactly or would theylthey learnearn from their mistakes and try for something better?

Considering Merrill points out that no one in the Sabrae clan is sure which side in the war between Arlathan and Tevinter summoned the spirit Audacity, I'm not so sure about that. I get the impression from the entries the Arlathan elves were simply viewed as being wholly different from their contemporary counterparts, like the example of spending decades on an introduction alone.

[davidselite737]

"oh look, one of the.....people..." 

 

you bend your knees to quickly.. 

 

Flemeth is just bad ass and probaly the most interesting character in DA

[LobselVith8]

"oh look, one of the.....people..."

That's what Elvhen means - the People.

you bend your knees to quickly..

Flemeth is just bad ass and probaly the most interesting character in DA

I'm curious about her ties to the Dalish, since a clan brought Maric and Loghain to her, and Ariane knew exactly where her hut was located.

[Dean_the_Young]

There were 4500 years between the founding of Arlathan and the first arrival of humans. That's about the same amount of time that has passed since the beginning of civilization in the real world. For the elves to lose, they were either stagnant to ridiculous levels or humans advanced at an equally ridiculous pace, while the elves just sat in a corner and watched.

 

Or the game was rigged. That's always a possibility.

 

Or the elves had a long period of dominance, and other factors saw them distracted when a rival human society grew to a critical point.

 

And it's not like the elves had a head start that the humans had to make up without any aid. It's very possible that, as part of politics and self-interest, elven technology and magic spread to the humans to accelerate Tevinter's rise.

[In Exile]

There were 4500 years between the founding of Arlathan and the first arrival of humans. That's about the same amount of time that has passed since the beginning of civilization in the real world. For the elves to lose, they were either stagnant to ridiculous levels or humans advanced at an equally ridiculous pace, while the elves just sat in a corner and watched.

 

Or the game was rigged. That's always a possibility.

 

Elven society might not have been quite as utopian and unified as the Dalish like to pretend. Even with the Imperium, humanity was never wholly united as one race. It may be that the elves had anti-Arlathan rebels/dissidents that armed the humans, if such a major gap between the two ever existed. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Or even that Arlathan armed the humans for use against anti-Arlathan rebels and dissidents.

 

In fact, there's nothing against the lore as it stands to say that Arlathan didn't have a hand in the unification of Tevinter. Plenty of reasons why they might have as well: one of the common desires of a strong faction against a weak but decentralized group is for there to be a single leader who can be negotiated with.

[In Exile]

Or even that Arlathan armed the humans for use against anti-Arlathan rebels and dissidents.

 

In fact, there's nothing against the lore as it stands to say that Arlathan didn't have a hand in the unification of Tevinter. Plenty of reasons why they might have as well: one of the common desires of a strong faction against a weak but decentralized group is for there to be a single leader who can be negotiated with.

 

Seeing as how they were a slave driven society anyway, they might well have liked a human society that was far more politically aligned with their own (i.e., doing some good ol' fashioned ritual blood magic sacrifices and otherwise oppressing the plebs). 

[Xilizhra]

Wait, didn't Tevinter have gods on its side, while all the elven gods had vanished? It may be as simple as that, depending on how much of a direct hand the Old Gods could have taken... hell, maybe they can mentally command dragons and ordered huge flocks of them to burn the elven empire down, or something (which, come to think of it, happened on a smaller scale in Dawn of the Seeker).

[davidselite737]

The problem with living a long life... is you forget how to live... "Man" or humans can never forget how to "live" cause life is so precious.. in the world of fantasy this proves humans as always the master race because we know how to live and do not focus on such trivial things like other races. Bit of scotcholophysi... Kappa

[In Exile]

Wait, didn't Tevinter have gods on its side, while all the elven gods had vanished? It may be as simple as that, depending on how much of a direct hand the Old Gods could have taken... hell, maybe they can mentally command dragons and ordered huge flocks of them to burn the elven empire down, or something (which, come to think of it, happened on a smaller scale in Dawn of the Seeker).

 

Seeing as we have no evidence that any of these gods exist, any kind of theory based on the involvement of gods is out of left field. At any rate, we know that imprisoned Old Gods can't do much of anything; if they could, we'd presumably see them to do things in the current DA games, since there are still existing OGs. 

 

There's also no evidence we've seen thus far that it was ever large numbers of dragons that impacted Arlathans defeat. All the lore we've seen says it was human mages and large numbers of humans with pointy sticks 

[Xilizhra]

Seeing as we have no evidence that any of these gods exist, any kind of theory based on the involvement of gods is out of left field. At any rate, we know that imprisoned Old Gods can't do much of anything; if they could, we'd presumably see them to do things in the current DA games, since there are still existing OGs. 

 

There's also no evidence we've seen thus far that it was ever large numbers of dragons that impacted Arlathans defeat. All the lore we've seen says it was human mages and large numbers of humans with pointy sticks 

Well, Dumat apparently responds to Hawke's sacrifice in Legacy, and Corypheus calls on him for power. It's not unambiguous evidence, but it is evidence.

 

And it could well be that the Old Gods instead boosted the power of the magisters to accomplish it.

[In Exile]

Well, Dumat apparently responds to Hawke's sacrifice in Legacy, and Corypheus calls on him for power. It's not unambiguous evidence, but it is evidence.

 

And it could well be that the Old Gods instead boosted the power of the magisters to accomplish it.

 

Which is actually even stranger, because Dumat is supposed to be in the definitely dead category of OGs. I'm not saying the OGs didn't play a role - they presumably played an important role - I just don't think we can attribute a role to any elven diety, whose existence at this point is a completely myth on par with the Maker. 

[Xilizhra]

Which is actually even stranger, because Dumat is supposed to be in the definitely dead category of OGs. I'm not saying the OGs didn't play a role - they presumably played an important role - I just don't think we can attribute a role to any elven diety, whose existence at this point is a completely myth on par with the Maker. 

It's entirely possible that the Grey Wardens got it wrong when they thought they were truly killing the Old Gods. As for the Creators--well, clearly they didn't play a role, they'd gone missing before Arlathan's fall. So it works whether you believe in them or not.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Legacy doesn't really prove anything about the Old Gods or Dumat.The Altars of Dumat are powered by demons. And Dumat doesn't answer Corypheus calls when first awakens.

[Xilizhra]

Legacy doesn't really prove anything about the Old Gods or Dumat.The Altars of Dumat are powered by demons. And Dumat doesn't answer Corypheus calls when first awakens.

Demons pop out when you desecrate the altar, but it doesn't prove that the altar is powered by demons. And Corypheus may have been too disoriented to make the connection initially.

 

As I said, it's ambiguous, but it's still evidence.

[myahele]

I wonder what Ancient Elves thought about dragons? Dragon's were pretty common back in the day, so I wonder if ancient tevinter drank dragon blood to boost their power?

 

I wonder if Elven tattoos (what ever they're called) played a role in their immortality or at the very least uthenera?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dalish Vaallaslin is something that has had it's inception with the Fall of the Dales. By tatooing symbols of their gods and such on their faces it's their way of ensuring they will never forget the old ways.

[Dean_the_Young]

Dalish Vaallaslin is something that has had it's inception with the Fall of the Dales. By tatooing symbols of their gods and such on their faces it's their way of ensuring they will never forget the old ways.

 

Yet another irony in their cultural preservation culture that has increasingly little in common with the actual Dales and Arlathan.

[Mistic]

Wait, didn't Tevinter have gods on its side, while all the elven gods had vanished? It may be as simple as that, depending on how much of a direct hand the Old Gods could have taken... hell, maybe they can mentally command dragons and ordered huge flocks of them to burn the elven empire down, or something (which, come to think of it, happened on a smaller scale in Dawn of the Seeker).

 

Well, I really don't see an army of dragons helping Tevinter, and the Old Gods were imprisoned, but it's true that WoT points out the help the Tevinters were given by the Old Gods. They are credited with teaching magic to the Dreamers of the Neromenians, thus shifting the power in the tribes to those mages (-2800 Ancient) and it's said that the first known person to use blood magic was taught by Dumat (-1595 Ancient).

 

It wouldn't far-fetched to think that the Old Gods were interested in the fall of Arlathan. Maybe the elves were taught magic by the Old Gods too, but weren't useful enough for them. Then came the humans and the Old Gods might have seen them as the perfect puppets.

 

Seeing as we have no evidence that any of these gods exist, any kind of theory based on the involvement of gods is out of left field. At any rate, we know that imprisoned Old Gods can't do much of anything; if they could, we'd presumably see them to do things in the current DA games, since there are still existing OGs.

 

No evidence? We killed the corrupted Urthemiel in DA:O. They did exist. However, if they can be considered gods or just especially intelligent high dragons is another matter.

[myahele]

Also keep in mind that Tevinter had really good relationships with Dwarves.

[Han Shot First]

Random thought, but could the initial human advantage over the elves have been tied to something as simple as the horse? The Halla are basically a species of deer. They might be majestic animals and useful beasts of burden, but a deer could never rival the horse as a cavalry mount. The horse also appears to be an animal that was domesticated first by humans. If the humans arrived in Thedas with horses I would think that would give them a significant advantage over elven armies.

[Xilizhra]

Random thought, but could the initial human advantage over the elves have been tied to something as simple as the horse? The Halla are basically a species of deer. They might be majestic animals and useful beasts of burden, but a deer could never rival the horse as a cavalry mount. The horse also appears to be an animal that was domesticated first by humans. If the humans arrived in Thedas with horses I would think that would give them a significant advantage over elven armies.

Given all the magic that's sure to have been flung around, I don't think horses would have been enough of an advantage to tip the balance, especially since halla are significantly smarter than horses.

[SNascimento]

I wish I could have taken part in their slaughter. Never liked the elfs.