350 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Yeah that barely fleshed out hole that was merely tossed around as a potential idea. That idea people like yourself bash despite the fact that it was never expanded upon, yet DK has to say time and again that it was in the early planning stages at best.

 

At the very least, the ideas of the Reapers being literal good guys, Shepard actually being an antagonist working against them, and it all revolving around space magic and a heavy-handed sacrificial decision were in Drew's head.  Raw idea or not, that's where his mind was at: an elevated, twisted version of ME3's ending.

 

Those were all plot ideas from the writing team that were discarded. So what.

 

He even admits that most of them are completely wacky and crazy. Jeez.

 

http://www.eurogamer...-trilogy-ending

 

They were discarded, thank goodness.  Point being, he's an out-there, rule-of-cool writer himself, and he bends the rules, too. Course, one only needs to look at the magic Prothean brain filters and the telepathic plant who craps out asari clones in ME1 to realize it's been there since dia uno.  

[AlanC9]

I mean the guy who crafted excellent stories in ME1 and ME2 as lead writer, that Drew Karpyshyn. (element zero is rather strange space magic, but so is the force, so whatever)
 
Are you trying to say that it is Drew's fault, that the writing in ME3 was terrible, because the writing in ME1 + ME2 was terrible? Or what is it exactly that you trying to say?

 
I am saying that they were all fairly ridiculous, in their own ways. ME1 had Tali's silly voice recording and a Reaper plan that made no sense, apparently put in with some vague expectation that they'd figure out a way to explain the plan in a later game. (If they had actually ever planned to make the Reapers truly irrational and incomprehensible, the latter could have been tolerable, maybe. But they never intended any such thing.) ME2 had Shepard's idiotic and pointless death and resurrection, a Collector plan that had no point, and a big Reaper reveal that actually managed to make the ME1 Reaper plan even less sensible than it already was. These are just the ones that I feel like typing. I could do more from each, plus a bunch from ME3, but you get the drift by now.
 
Most of these problems don't carry over into the next game. But the incoherent Reaper plan is a problem for ME3, because ME3 is the game where such things needed to be resolved. ME1 and ME2 threw out some pretentious mumbo-jumbo and left the ME3 writers to sort it out. It is neither fair nor rational to blame ME3's writers for story problems that were introduced in the previous games.

[felipejiraya]

We're almost in the middle of 2014 and people still overreact about Mac Walters.

[KaiserShep]

We're almost in the middle of 2014 and people still overreact about Mac Walters.

 

I'll have you know that many players suffered massive kidney failure as a result of ME3's ending. You don't really get over that sort of thing in just a couple of years.

[dreamgazer]

Personally, I turned into a newt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(... I got better.)

[Ryuzetsu]

Just from a business standpoint I think it would behoove Bioware a great deal to leave both Casey and Mac out of all PR going forward. If they want people to move past the trilogy and embrace this new era of the Mass Effect universe then new faces need to be doing the interviews. This is not a bash this is just logical. The weight of these two men's actions during the final stages of the end of the trilogy way heavy in the minds of many hard-core fans. And to their minds many of the reasons why the ending was a failure falls squarely on the shoulders of these two men. So it would probably be best if these two men simply took a backseat to let others do the face work.

[KaiserShep]

Personally, I turned into a newt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(... I got better.)

 

But if you stayed as a newt, you could have gotten NASA to finally build that moon base.

[Sanunes]

Just from a business standpoint I think it would behoove Bioware a great deal to leave both Casey and Mac out of all PR going forward. If they want people to move past the trilogy and embrace this new era of the Mass Effect universe then new faces need to be doing the interviews. This is not a bash this is just logical. The weight of these two men's actions during the final stages of the end of the trilogy way heavy in the minds of many hard-core fans. And to their minds many of the reasons why the ending was a failure falls squarely on the shoulders of these two men. So it would probably be best if these two men simply took a backseat to let others do the face work.

 

I do agree to a point, but I rather see them then some EA PR person that knows very little about the game. If there isn't anyone else that wants to be the "face" for BioWare for these games because of how we as a community reacted to the end of the previous games, for the community in my opinion has too many extremes that hurt us just as much as the perception of Casey Hudson and Mac Walters hurt the game in the opinion of some people. For I wouldn't want to be publicly associated with BioWare (or any game company to be honest) because of the comments that are known to us and I am pretty sure there are many more that aren't.

[Drone223]

Just from a business standpoint I think it would behoove Bioware a great deal to leave both Casey and Mac out of all PR going forward. If they want people to move past the trilogy and embrace this new era of the Mass Effect universe then new faces need to be doing the interviews. This is not a bash this is just logical. The weight of these two men's actions during the final stages of the end of the trilogy way heavy in the minds of many hard-core fans. And to their minds many of the reasons why the ending was a failure falls squarely on the shoulders of these two men. So it would probably be best if these two men simply took a backseat to let others do the face work.

Casey was project director for the trilogy so it make sence that he returns. Most of the writers form edmonton are working on DAI so Mac is helping put on the project, Micheal Gamble is also working on the next ME game as well.

[Deebo305]

Someone please tell me that guy isn't involved with the writing for the next game. This isn't a Mac Walter's bashing thread, because I understand the rules. But that dude is responsible for almost all of the most criticized parts of ME3's story, and as a fan I'm concerned.

Could've fooled me

 

Like him or hate him, hes been apart of all 3 games so he belongs there. One misstep doesn't demonize a person for life. Also, not everyone hated these "criticizied" parts. So, expect to see more of him around whether you like it or not

[Drone223]

Could've fooled me

 

Like him or hate him, hes been apart of all 3 games so he belongs there. One misstep doesn't demonize a person for life. Also, not everyone hated these "criticizied" parts. So, expect to see more of him around whether you like it or not

Not to mention there are others who have been assigned to work on the next ME game due to their experience with the trilogy.

[L. Han]

It's not always about what the fans want.

[Vapaa]

My problem with Mac Walters, is that he has ideas, but he doesn't have an overhead view. ME2 is the perfect exemple: "build your team for the misson, and I you screw up, they die" it's quite frankly briliant, and it strikes right in the middle of the most iconic Bioware feature: characters. It made them more important than ever and to make them take the stage in the game (who cares about the collectors) was the best thing ever...in a standalone game. The branching fallout of ME2 really kicked ME3 in the nuts, leading to heavy reliance on unkillable characters (namely, Liara and EDI, you better like them cause they're potentially all that's left).

 

So PLEASE, Mac, see where you're bloody going. Yeah it's the jouney not the destination, yada yada...but the journey won't matter much if you end up murdered or drowned.

[Pateu]

Why are people complaining about space magic?

 

Biotic abilities already are space magic.

[Seishoujyo]

Actually I m happy to see Mac Walters, ok he fucked up the ending but he did a lot of greats things in ME2 or ME3 too, it's a good thing to have him in ME Next, he knows the franchise.

[Moghedia]

I don't think it matters how long has passed since ME3 was released, the ending was terrible. I could play it again 10 years from now and my opinion would be the same. Terrible ending.
And as far as I recall no one has stepped forward and owned that mistake.

[Ajensis]

^ You make it sound like Mass Effect 3 was the only game to be criticised for its ending. You don't honestly expect someone to make an official apology, do you?

 

To those that are so worried about Mac Walters' influence, I think the best course of action is to simply try and calm down. There's literally nothing we can do to change the fact that he's the narrative director. How about instead of demonising him, we wait and see what the next game will be like? It's not impossible for people to learn from their mistakes, you know or maybe he's more of a supervisor and has less to do with shaping the game, in which case it's of even less importance.

Reserve judgment until we've actually seen something of the game. If the lore is full of inconsistencies (more so than the usual amount that most games have), then by all means, criticise all you like (respectfully, of course). But until then, I don't see the point. It's just making the forums look more like the old BSN.

[Sion1138]

Judging from his comics, this may be a disaster.  

 

But I'll wait. 

 

I think his hat is at fault, giving him bad ideas. He should wear a baseball cap.

[Iakus]

^ You make it sound like Mass Effect 3 was the only game to be criticised for its ending. You don't honestly expect someone to make an official apology, do you?

 

Sadly, I don't expect one.

 

But this wasn't just one game ending, this was the ending to a trilogy of games that got screwed over.  Three, not just one.  Plus it was an ending that makes any followup stories problematic.  This is a massive problem both in story logistics and franchise image to overcome.

 

And as has been pointed out, the supplementary material in the comics is not encouraging.

[Ajensis]

Sadly, I don't expect one.

 

But this wasn't just one game ending, this was the ending to a trilogy of games that got screwed over.  Three, not just one.  Plus it was an ending that makes any followup stories problematic.  This is a massive problem both in story logistics and franchise image to overcome.

 

And as has been pointed out, the supplementary material in the comics is not encouraging.

 

Oh, I'm with you. I dislike the ending almost as much as you but I'm just saying, it's not a unique case in video game history, as Moghedia made it sound like. I don't see why they should step forward and 'own their mistake' as if someone died from what they did. They just made a bad call. You live, you learn (hopefully).

[We'll bang okay]

not gonna lie I got a little angry when he and Casey talked about listening to fans

yep fans don't know what they want 

[KaiserShep]

And as far as I recall no one has stepped forward and owned that mistake.

 

Aside from the fact that it's in their interest to continue to defend their products, making some sort of public apology to somehow appease dissatisfied fans is totally meaningless. I mean, what good would it do? The people who hate the game will continue to hate it, and even if some people actually buy this apology and go "Aww they really do care", talk is cheap. If they really want to say "I'm sorry", then they just have to release better games.

[dlux]

I am saying that they were all fairly ridiculous, in their own ways. ME1 had Tali's silly voice recording and a Reaper plan that made no sense, apparently put in with some vague expectation that they'd figure out a way to explain the plan in a later game. (If they had actually ever planned to make the Reapers truly irrational and incomprehensible, the latter could have been tolerable, maybe. But they never intended any such thing.) ME2 had Shepard's idiotic and pointless death and resurrection, a Collector plan that had no point, and a big Reaper reveal that actually managed to make the ME1 Reaper plan even less sensible than it already was. These are just the ones that I feel like typing. I could do more from each, plus a bunch from ME3, but you get the drift by now.

Most of these problems don't carry over into the next game. But the incoherent Reaper plan is a problem for ME3, because ME3 is the game where such things needed to be resolved. ME1 and ME2 threw out some pretentious mumbo-jumbo and left the ME3 writers to sort it out. It is neither fair nor rational to blame ME3's writers for story problems that were introduced in the previous games.

  
The writing and everything you mentioned in ME1 and ME2 were absolutely fine and made sense for the most part (the game has a little bit of space magic, but so what, it's fiction and isn't exaggerated out of proportion). The collectors had a point, i.e. build a Reaper to open the mass effect relay in the Citadel. Shepard's death and resurrection was fine, space magic tech FTW. No idea what Drew has to do with Tali's voice acting. The Reapers did not have a plan that made no sense, their plans and agenda were simply not revealed, other than the fact that they wanted to destroy/enslave all intelligent, spacefaring life in the galaxy, which made them very mysterious. Sounds to me like you just simply have a problem with this type of space opera fiction.
 
I have no idea why you are blaming Drew Karpyshyn for the ridiculous and terrible writing that Mac Walters was responsible for in ME3. The hole that you mentioned, the one ME3 fell into, was only dug in Mass Effect 3 by Mac Walters himself, it was not dug by Drew Karpyshyn in ME1 and ME2. You also seem to completely renounce the fact that nobody really had any problems with the writing in the Mass Effect series until ME3 was released.

• The Reapers were truly irrational and incomprehensible until Mass Effect 3,
• The force that drives the Reapers, which is to kill all organics so that they don't kill themselves (completely ridiculous and illogical, lol), was not mentioned until Mass Effect 3
• Star Child, "god" of the galaxy, was never mentioned until Mass Effect 3,
• that Shepard must pointlessy sacrifice himself, in order to prove that humans deserve to survive (what? lol), which ultimately ends the reaping cycles, was never mentioned until Mass Effect 3

and countless other ridiculous story elements, that were developed during the production of Mass Effect 3. There is absolutely no connection of these story elements to the story elements in ME1 and ME2, other than the fact, that the Reapers exist and have an agenda.

Not to mention that you bash Drew for the discarded ideas that the writing team had developed and are trying use this is proof that Drew is a terrible writer, although Drew himself even mentioned that "Some of the ideas were a little bit wacky and a little bit crazy". What? Seriously?

[KaiserShep]

Seems kind of silly to try to build yet another reaper to make a second attempt to hijack the Citadel. But again, it doesn't matter, because it's well established in ME2 that the reapers will arrive regardless.