350 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't, but it is really complete bull crap to compare the two-sentence recollection of a an idea of a storyline to a finished, shipped product. Yes, in the form in which it was articulated it sounds pretty silly, but it is asinine to assume that Drew wouldn't have worked on it a hell of a lot beyond that form if he were writing the actual plot for the third game.

 

Drew Karpyshyn is a competent professional who has produced some really quality work for BioWare over the years. Deriding him as if he were not is a worse reflection on you than it is on him.

 

Thanks for the rant, but please point out where I said Drew was a bad writer. He's not. That's a guess you've made so that you can attack a strawman with self-righteous fury. But he didn't have a better plan in place, and I have no real indication that he would have handled the current ME3 ending better than Mac. He himself said that ideas like the ones listed are vaporware, and just because he would have "worked hard" to flesh out the ending (as if Mac didn't) doesn't mean the ending would have been good.

 

Now since I have taken the time to both read his books and a few of Mac's comics, I am qualified to say that I find their extra-game work of dubious quality. But they have both done good in-game work. To prop up one at the expense of the other is not useful. That was the point.

[dlux]

The general consensus has always been that ME3 was a strong game with a weak ending.  Get any deeper than that, and you're approaching the same territory ME2 went down with its many criticized failings: daddy issues, a pointless plot involving a side-villain, and a two-year jump that promptly set the trilogy up for inconsistency.

No, the consensus is that Mass Effect 3 is not as strong as the previous game. The writing is mediocre, the level design isn't good, the combat did slightly improve, but the game is shorter and the ending, which is the ending of the entire trilogy, is absolutely appalling. And some other stuff.
 
Mass Effect 2 did have some problems because it isn't perfect, what you just mentioned are not problems at all though. I also don't get why you are so hooked up on these daddy issues, would you be happier if the companions simply mentioned that they all have nice loving daddys that write everyday, or what?   Some of them have (minor) problems with their families/mommys/daddys, some don't. So what.
 
Anyway, why do you always mention that Mass Effect 2 had so many problems, everytime somebody mentions that Mass Effect 3 is a terrible game? Are you trying to prove that Mass Effect 2 is a bad game, so that Mass Effect 3 can be a bad game too?
 

Thanks for the rant, but please point out where I said Drew was a bad writer. He's not. That's a guess you've made so that you can attack a strawman with self-righteous fury. But he didn't have a better plan in place, and I have no real indication that he would have handled the current ME3 ending better than Mac. He himself said that ideas like the ones listed are vaporware, and just because he would have "worked hard" to flesh out the ending (as if Mac didn't) doesn't mean the ending would have been good.

Well, what do you want the people to think, when you pull quote(s) from Karpyshyn completely out of context and use them to try and prove that he is not a great writer and would have completely f*cked up the ending of Mass Effect 3 also. Building a strawman with fallacious arguments is a typical troll tactic, bro.
 
Like we have mentioned many times, these "whacky and crazy ideas" for Mass Effect that Drew mentioned in that interview, were discarded and never used. They were just ideas from brain storming, they have and never will see the light of day. There is no way to tell how Mass Effect would have been written, if Karpyshyn didn't leave the writing team. That is a fact.
 
Get over it. Seriously. Same goes for AlanC9, who was also using those quotes to try and prove that Drew is a not a great or a bad writer.

[Sanunes]

Well, what do you want the people to think, when you pull quote(s) from Karpyshyn completely out of context and use them to try and prove that he is not a great writer and would have completely f*cked up the ending of Mass Effect 3 also. Building a strawman with fallacious arguments is a typical troll tactic, bro.
 
Like we have mentioned many times, these "whacky and crazy ideas" for Mass Effect that Drew mentioned in that interview, were discarded and never used. They were just ideas from brain storming, they have and never will see the light of day. There is no way to tell how Mass Effect would have been written, if Karpyshyn didn't leave the writing team. That is a fact.
 
Get over it. Seriously. Same goes for AlanC9, who was also using those quotes to try and prove that Drew is a not a great or a bad writer.

 

I do agree that we really don't know what Drew Karphshyn would have done with Mass Effect 3.  At the same time then I would also want it the other way as well, saying he could have done better, for we really don't know what kind of situation Mac Walters was being put in to try and get the game finished, for all we know it could have been better, worse, or the same if Drew Karphshyn was still Lead Writer.

[dlux]

I do agree that we really don't know what Drew Karphshyn would have done with Mass Effect 3.  At the same time then I would also want it the other way as well, saying he could have done better, for we really don't know what kind of situation Mac Walters was being put in to try and get the game finished, for all we know it could have been better, worse, or the same if Drew Karphshyn was still Lead Writer.

True. But we will never know.

[AlanC9]

Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't, but it is really complete bull crap to compare the two-sentence recollection of a an idea of a storyline to a finished, shipped product. Yes, in the form in which it was articulated it sounds pretty silly, but it is asinine to assume that Drew wouldn't have worked on it a hell of a lot beyond that form if he were writing the actual plot for the third game.

 

 

Would more work make a bad concept into a good concept? Would you say that about the existing ending? Or is the argument that with more work Drew K. would have seen that he didn't have a good idea and he would then have come up with a new one that was good because... well, he would just have had to?

[AlanC9]

True. But we will never know.

 

Didn't we get onto this subject because you were saying that you did know?

[dlux]

Didn't we get onto this subject because you were saying that you did know?

We got onto to this subject because you decided to bash Drew with fallacious arguments.

 

I think that the ending of the trilogy would have been better if Drew Karpyshyn hadn't left the writing team. To be honest, whatever Drew might have written would have probably turned out to be a masterpiece in comparision to what Mac Walters wrote for ME3. Is that a problem?

 

--------

 

So, we have Mass Effect 3 fanboys who bash Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and the lead writer of those games, in part with fallacious arguments. They also refuse to accept the general consensus about all three games (first two are good, last one is terrible). Now I have seen everything on this strange forum.

[Deebo305]

Mac Walters is the scapegoat of ME3... as is Casey Hudson. It takes an entire dev team to create, not just 2 people.

The endings and plotholes were seen and played daily by the entire team. The group effort it took to finish the game in the time allowed was horrendous. Don't misunderstand me... I'm still butt hurt over the endings and all, but come ON peeps.

Let it go!

Mac isn't the devil.

Sweet baby Jesus THANK YOU!

Finally someone gets it, there is hope left in the fandom after all

[SolNebula]

Honestly without entering too much into ME1vsME2vsME3 I would like to do some personal observations on how the trilogy game aged for me.

 

I still play ME1 taking it as a single piece story instead of a trilogy. I do at least a regular playthrought once every year. Love it, you can clearly see the massive scope of the game despite being incomplete but the story, the music and the character are all there to make you forget the terrible controls and dated graphics.

 

I still play ME3 not because of the story which has problems (and not only the endings) but because it has my beloved characters from ME1. It felt like the continuation of ME1, IMO you can play ME1 and then directly go to ME3 without even noticing great differences...if you exclude cameos and ME2 story details that never had an impact on ME3. I did it once and then realized how pointless storywise ME2 is. I never linked with the ME2 crew, I had my beloved crew in ME1 and was taken away from me for Cerberus grunts.

 

This is not to say that ME2 is a bad game. On the contrary is fun, with the best pieces of DLCs ever made for Mass Effect BUT ME2 was made pointless by ME3 which connects more with ME1 (story and characters) than ME2.

 

This is why I almost never play ME2 anymore, just felt disconnected with new characters that felt forced on you (suffice to say Garrus and Tali were my permanent squadmates in ME2) which they never got developed in ME3. BW with the last game told us basically not to care for them. It is sad but true.

 

I still would like to understand what was the rationale for ME2. What was ME2 main objective for BW? I think this time around with the new ME generation. BW should avoid storywise what they did with ME2.

My two cents for BW as a veteran player:

 

-Plan way ahead the general storyline if you intend to do a trilogy. (You don't need to have all the details ready but you need to know the main direction the trilogy will take and be consistent with this in all three games)

 

-Don't kill the main protagonist in the middle of the story to make it return through magic. What is the point?

 

-Don't introduce new companions you have no desire in developing in a future next title. Better few developed charcters than a horde of superficially covered individuals.

 

-Fewer but meaningful choices.

 

Those are the most important things that came in my mind

[Farangbaa]

We got onto to this subject because you decided to bash Drew with fallacious arguments.

 

I think that the ending of the trilogy would have been better if Drew Karpyshyn hadn't left the writing team. Is that a problem?

 

--------

 

So, we have Mass Effect 3 fanboys who bash Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and the lead writer of those games, in part with fallacious arguments. They also refuse to accept the general consensus about all three games (first two are good, last one is terrible). Now I have seen everything on this strange forum.

 

No one's bashing any writers here, except you.

[Remix-General Aetius]

We got onto to this subject because you decided to bash Drew with fallacious arguments.

 

I think that the ending of the trilogy would have been better if Drew Karpyshyn hadn't left the writing team. Is that a problem?

 

--------

 

So, we have Mass Effect 3 fanboys who bash Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and the lead writer of those games, in part with fallacious arguments. They also refuse to accept the general consensus about all three games (first two are good, last one is terrible). Now I have seen everything on this strange forum.

 

lol general consensus according to whom? happy players are silent players because they're spending their time playing the game Vs bitching about what they didn't like even 2+ years after the game was released.

 

glass houses...........

 

PS: 15 minutes of sub-par ending cinematic doesn't even begin to compare to at least 12 hours worth of awesomeness. who's the fallacious one here? not me.

[dlux]

lol general consensus according to whom? 

Do you live under a rock or what? Go and troll the OP of this thread instead.

 

Oh god. This forum. 

[dlux]

No one's bashing any writers here, except you.

You should go and troll the OP too, that might help you with your butthurt.

 

The general consensus is that Mass Effect 3 sucks, accept it. If you like ME3 then that is fine, nobody cares. If I wanted to troll you, then I'd write that you should be happy that you have such low standards and can enjoy crap.

[Shechinah]

Closest thing is Fallout 3's Broken Steel expansion, which retconned the protagonist's death by (logically) throwing someone else under the bus.  

 

Same general ending, though, and there's an entire expansion's worth of added content afterwards for more free-roam goodness (a necessity for that one). 

It was less about throwing someone else under the bus and more like turning around and going: "Oh hey Fawkes, you know that thing you did during the main plot? Yeah, can you do that again since we've seen and know you can survive it?"

 

And it still gives you **** for not doing the certain-death thing yourself. Like my dad, my a**, he was still perfectly fine with sending his kid into a supermutant-infested place without backup.

[Shechinah]

Don't worry guys, I heard he has got this new color palette that he wants to try out

I hear purple's popular this year.

[Farangbaa]

You should go and troll the OP too, that might help you with your butthurt.

 

The general consensus is that Mass Effect 3 sucks, accept it. If you like ME3 then that is fine, nobody cares. If I wanted to troll you, then I'd write that you should be happy that you have such low standards and can enjoy crap.

 

Your only strategy is to call everbody that disagrees with you a troll, or take what people say into extremes to make it absurd, like this:

 

'Mac inherited the work of Drew' translates to 'Drew is a horrible writer, he sucks'. Apparantly, this is bashing Drew, of which you make a big deal while bashing Mac with every letter you type (except when you're typing 'troll' to someone who disagrees with you)

 

I'd say that's rather trollish, but apparantly everybody else is a troll except you.

[Farangbaa]

Do you live under a rock or what? Go and troll the OP of this thread instead.

 

Oh god. This forum. 

 

Your mind =/= general consensus. 

 

Believe it or not, some people still play the Mass Effect trilogy, like myself. You only came here to **** on the previous installment of a game in the topic about the next installment. And then proceed to call everyone a troll.

 

I think a lol is at place here.

[wolfhowwl]

I mean the guy who crafted excellent stories in ME1 and ME2 as lead writer, that Drew Karpyshyn. (element zero is rather strange space magic, but so is the force, so whatever)

 

Are you trying to say that it is Drew's fault, that the writing in ME3 was terrible, because the writing in ME1 + ME2 was terrible? Or what is it exactly that you trying to say?
 
Anyway, please tell us about this hole that ME3 fell into, the one that allegedly appeared in ME1 and ME2. I'd also like to know about these good guy reapers, because I didn't hear about them and this weird galaxy engulfing space magic, star child god of the galaxy, illogical organics-are-going-to-kill-themselves-so-they-have-to-be-killed-before-they-kill-themselves nonsense and sacrificial bullshit, until ME3.

 

Mac Walters was heavily involved with the so-called "excellent" story in Mass Effect 2 by the way. Drew Karpyshyn left very early in production to go work on The Old Republic.

 

You can read in the Final Hours of Mass Effect 3 about how Walters and Hudson together developed the game's dirty dozen story, the fight with the secretive Collectors, and the Suicide Mission. Walters is also responsible for the role of Cerberus and TIM in that game as well.

[AlexMBrennan]

You are free to not buy the game unless he Mac resigns. Exercise it if you feel strongly about it. 

[dlux]

Mac Walters was heavily involved with the so-called "excellent" story in Mass Effect 2 by the way. Drew Karpyshyn left very early in production to go work on The Old Republic.

 

You can read in the Final Hours of Mass Effect 3 about how Walters and Hudson together developed the game's dirty dozen story, the fight with the secretive Collectors, and the Suicide Mission. Walters is also responsible for the role of Cerberus and TIM in that game as well.

And Drew Karpyshyn wasn't involved in the writing of the crappy story in ME3, the game which lead to the biggest shitstorm in probably all of gaming history.

[CptFalconPunch]

The general consensus is that Mass Effect 3 sucks, accept it.

I believe what people have been trying to tell you here, and what everyone seems to ignore is how emotions cloud judgement.

 

If someone has hate for the ending until today, I won't ever trust him to tell me how good or bad Mass effect 3 is. His opinion will most likely be extremely biased and polarized. It's kind of the same thing with nostalgia.

[dlux]

Your only strategy is to call everbody that disagrees with you a troll, or take what people say into extremes to make it absurd, like this:

 

'Mac inherited the work of Drew' translates to 'Drew is a horrible writer, he sucks'. Apparantly, this is bashing Drew, of which you make a big deal while bashing Mac with every letter you type (except when you're typing 'troll' to someone who disagrees with you)

 

I'd say that's rather trollish, but apparantly everybody else is a troll except you.

Your mind =/= general consensus. 

 

Believe it or not, some people still play the Mass Effect trilogy, like myself. You only came here to **** on the previous installment of a game in the topic about the next installment. And then proceed to call everyone a troll.

 

I think a lol is at place here.

The general consensus is that Mass Effect 3 sucks. Remember the major shitstorm because of Mass Effect 3, which is probably the biggest one in all of gaming history? There was a shitstorm, because Mass Effect 3 is a terrible game with terrible, grossly illogical writing and ridiculous star child space magic bullshit.

 

I am starting to think you are simply in denial, and therefore have problems to accept the general consensus, which is of course, that Mass Effect 3 is a terrible game.

 

One thing is certain though, you certainly are butthurt and love to troll, because you apparently can't accept a different opinion. Like I said, go and troll the OP of this thread and all of the other people who liked his post, because they all dislike Mass Effect 3, not just me.

[dlux]

I believe what people have been trying to tell you here, and what everyone seems to ignore is how emotions cloud judgement.
 
If someone has hate for the ending until today, I won't ever trust him to tell me how good or bad Mass effect 3 is. His opinion will most likely be extremely biased and polarized. It's kind of the same thing with nostalgia.

Am I supposed to like a bad game after a few years or soemthing? Is that normal?

I am actually surprised that I am getting trolled by so many Mass Effect 3 fans, to be honest. I guess most of the Mass Effect fans left the forum after Mass Effect 3. I don't really blame them either.

[CptFalconPunch]

Am I supposed to like a bad game after a few years or soemthing? Is that normal?

 

Calm your horses, it isn't about you. I mean the general populus that didn't like Mass effect 3's ending. I don't know why you think the game is anywhere near bad, but there you go.