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[dlux]

Mac Walters was heavily involved with the so-called "excellent" story in Mass Effect 2 by the way. Drew Karpyshyn left very early in production to go work on The Old Republic.
 
You can read in the Final Hours of Mass Effect 3 about how Walters and Hudson together developed the game's dirty dozen story, the fight with the secretive Collectors, and the Suicide Mission. Walters is also responsible for the role of Cerberus and TIM in that game as well.

Drew left after the writing for ME2 was complete to work on SW:TOR.

No idea why you and a few others are continually trying to excuse the blatant failings of a game that prompted the biggest shitstorm probably in all of gaming history. I also have no idea why you refuse to acknowledge the general consensus, which is of course that Mass Effect 3 is freaking horrible game.   

But whatever. I guess I am going to be trolled until I either leave or adopt your opinion, that Mass Effect 3 is a great game (bestest, bestest game in teh seriez eva) and Mac Walters did a great job with the writing. And of course, I will have to bash Drew Karpyshyn, the lead writer of ME1 and ME2 and then point out how terrible the writing in those games is, because Drew Karpyshyn is a moron. Oh yeah, and the ending of ME3 would have been better, but Mac Walters is a victim of circumstance, the writing in ME1 and ME2 (mostly ME2) was so bad, that Mac Walters couldn't write anything better in ME3. Which is of course Drew Karpyshyn's fault, because he is a moron. Did I forget anything?

 

Ridiculous...

[SwobyJ]

 

But whatever. I guess I am going to be trolled until I either leave or adopt your opinion, that Mass Effect 3 is a great game (bestest, bestest game in teh seriez eva) and Mac Walters did a great job with the writing. And of course, I will have to bash Drew Karpyshyn, the lead writer of ME1 and ME2 and then point out how terrible the writing in those games is, because Drew Karpyshyn is a moron. Oh yeah, and the ending of ME3 would have been better, but Mac Walters is a victim of circumstance, the writing in ME1 and ME2 (mostly ME2) was so bad, that Mac Walters couldn't write anything better in ME3, which is of course Drew Karpyshyn's fault, because he is a moron. Did I forget anything?

 

Stop being foolish and misrepresenting arguments.

[dlux]

Stop being foolish and misrepresenting arguments.

But those are actually the arguments of some of the ME3 fans. Check Alan9C's posts, which happen to be the ones you liked.

 

Yeah, it certainly is annoying to read nonsense like that.

[SwobyJ]

But those are actually the arguments of some of the ME3 fans. Check Alan9C's posts, which happen to be the ones you liked.

 

Yeah, it certainly is annoying to read nonsense like that.

 

I liked what?

 

I tend not to agree with Alan9C.

 

But what you wrote, was not what Alan9C was even saying.

[SwobyJ]

"I guess I am going to be trolled until I either leave or adopt your opinion"

-That really isn't what's going on. The hyperbole isn't needed.

 

"that Mass Effect 3 is a great game (bestest, bestest game in teh seriez eva)"

-At least in my experience... in person, face to face with others... peoples' ranges were from 'it was okay but ughhh' to 'it was good but that ending' to 'it was great except it didn't end well'

-My point is that... you going that 'everyone hated it' was flat out wrong, and again, this is hyperbole serves no purpose.

 

"and Mac Walters did a great job with the writing."

-That's always debatable. If one calls him a bad writer, they'll have to ignore the stuff they saw from him that they actually loved, for example. Or if one calls him an amazing writer, they'll have to ignore the stuff they saw from him that they hated. What people were saying here is that since he has done good stuff, he clearly isn't outright terrible. That's it. Plenty of people in this thread who think that he did a bad job with the ME3 ending writing. Bad does not = the absolute worst. Your language goes to huge extremes and it only weakens any of you arguments that would otherwise look more legit.

 

"And of course, I will have to bash Drew Karpyshyn, the lead writer of ME1 and ME2 and then point out how terrible the writing in those games is, because Drew Karpyshyn is a moron."

-No one considered him a moron. Most here love ME1, for all its faults and datedness at this point. It's one of my favorite video games. But the point wasn't that Drew was a moron (wtf?) - it was that we don't actually know if he'd do better than what we saw in ME3, or whether he'd actually do worse. The actual evidence indicates it could be either. There's lots of ammo for both sides of that debate. He went out himself to say that he'd likely not do any better - but then of course we have to debate on whether he's just defending fellow writers or being completely honest, or both.

 

"Oh yeah, and the ending of ME3 would have been better, but Mac Walters is a victim of circumstance, the writing in ME1 and ME2 (mostly ME2) was so bad, that Mac Walters couldn't write anything better in ME3, which is of course Drew Karpyshyn's fault, because he is a moron. Did I forget anything?"

-The part where people let Mac off the hook for something they still didn't like and found damaging to Mass Effect. No one is outright defending Mac Walters here, believe it or not. They're just not pouncing on him for what, as these projects go, is very much a team effort. Whatever you blame Mac for, there's probably at least several others who share that blame, because that's how game development works, unless there's a very dictatorial management style. Bioware has been known to have 'orders on high' to do certain things, but whatever happens, is okayed by more than just Casey+Mac.

[Farangbaa]

Drew left after the writing for ME2 was complete to work on SW:TOR.

No idea why you and a few others are continually trying to excuse the blatant failings of a game that prompted the biggest shitstorm probably in all of gaming history. I also have no idea why you refuse to acknowledge the general consensus, which is of course that Mass Effect 3 is freaking horrible game.   

But whatever. I guess I am going to be trolled until I either leave or adopt your opinion, that Mass Effect 3 is a great game (bestest, bestest game in teh seriez eva) and Mac Walters did a great job with the writing. And of course, I will have to bash Drew Karpyshyn, the lead writer of ME1 and ME2 and then point out how terrible the writing in those games is, because Drew Karpyshyn is a moron. Oh yeah, and the ending of ME3 would have been better, but Mac Walters is a victim of circumstance, the writing in ME1 and ME2 (mostly ME2) was so bad, that Mac Walters couldn't write anything better in ME3. Which is of course Drew Karpyshyn's fault, because he is a moron. Did I forget anything?

 

Ridiculous...

 

Dude, you can't even replicate what someone says. It's filled with things you make up yourself that no one in here has said. Most prominently that Drew sucks. No one has said that, you keep saying they have.

 

Ridiculous.

[wolfhowwl]

Drew left after the writing for ME2 was complete to work on SW:TOR.

No idea why you and a few others are continually trying to excuse the blatant failings of a game that prompted the biggest shitstorm probably in all of gaming history. I also have no idea why you refuse to acknowledge the general consensus, which is of course that Mass Effect 3 is freaking horrible game.   

But whatever. I guess I am going to be trolled until I either leave or adopt your opinion, that Mass Effect 3 is a great game (bestest, bestest game in teh seriez eva) and Mac Walters did a great job with the writing. And of course, I will have to bash Drew Karpyshyn, the lead writer of ME1 and ME2 and then point out how terrible the writing in those games is, because Drew Karpyshyn is a moron. Oh yeah, and the ending of ME3 would have been better, but Mac Walters is a victim of circumstance, the writing in ME1 and ME2 (mostly ME2) was so bad, that Mac Walters couldn't write anything better in ME3. Which is of course Drew Karpyshyn's fault, because he is a moron. Did I forget anything?

 

Ridiculous...

 

No he did not. Go read The Final Hours. Even if you don't like Mac Walters surely it wouldn't kill you to acknowledge his heavy involvement with making Mass Effect 2, a game you liked, what it was.

 

As to the rest of your post, I don't think Mass Effect 3 is great and I have many issues with much of Mac Walters' work in Mass Effect 3 AND Mass Effect 2.

 

There is plenty of bad writing in both games to go around. Just because I have problems with Mass Effect 2's missteps like failing to address the central plot or the poor writing surrounding Cerberus, Shep's resurrection, and the Collector/Suicide Mission plot doesn't mean I liked the ending or think Mass Effect 3's unfocused mess of a story is perfect either.

 

For someone who is complaining about trolling behavior, you seem to have no problem attributing statements to people that they never said. 

[dlux]

I liked what?

 

I tend not to agree with Alan9C.

 

But what you wrote, was not what Alan9C was even saying.

Then I have mistaken you for someone else.

 

I have exaggerated a bit with the moron, but that is indeed what he and a few others were writing. They are basically blaming Drew for digging the hole, which ME3 fell in. Also that Mac Walters is a great writer, and a better choice than Drew Karpyshyn, etc.

 

It is also amazing how aggressive some people can get when you mention that a game, which they enjoy, caused one of the biggest shitstorms ever, simply because it had really bad writing. Man. 

[wolfhowwl]

It is also amazing how aggressive some people can get when you mention that a game, which they enjoy, caused one of the biggest shitstorms ever, simply because it had really bad writing. Man.

The most aggressive person in this thread is you.

[Pateu]

This thread needs to see my sig.

[dlux]

Dude, you can't even replicate what someone says. It's filled with things you make up yourself that no one in here has said. Most prominently that Drew sucks. No one has said that, you keep saying they have.

 

Ridiculous.

Yeah, the moron part is hyperbole. You know what that is, right?

 

But everything else has been written. I.e. The writing in ME1 and ME2 is not good, which then dug the hole that ME3 fell in. Also that Mac Walters is a great writer, and a better choice than Drew Karpyshyn. The writing in ME3 is fantastic, that many people hate it is completely irrelevant. Etc. The best was when comments from Drew were ripped out of context to try and prove that he is not a good writer. Ridiculous.

 

That is what you have been writing all along. You too I think, maybe you were mostly just trolling though.

 

Like I wrote, I gess I am going to be trolled until I either accept your opinon or simply leave. BTW, like I wrote, you can try trolling OP and the people who liked his post. That would work too, because they apparently have the same opinion as I.

[dlux]

No he did not. Go read The Final Hours. Even if you don't like Mac Walters surely it wouldn't kill you to acknowledge his heavy involvement with making Mass Effect 2, a game you liked, what it was.

 

As to the rest of your post, I don't think Mass Effect 3 is great and I have many issues with much of Mac Walters' work in Mass Effect 3 AND Mass Effect 2.

 

There is plenty of bad writing in both games to go around. Just because I have problems with Mass Effect 2's missteps like failing to address the central plot or the poor writing surrounding Cerberus, Shep's resurrection, and the Collector/Suicide Mission plot doesn't mean I liked the ending or think Mass Effect 3's unfocused mess of a story is perfect either.

 

For someone who is complaining about trolling behavior, you seem to have no problem attributing statements to people that they never said. 

I don't have a problem with Mac as a writer. If he happens to write something good, then it can be in the game. Great.

 

I just have a problem with him in a leading position (lead writer, narrative director, whatever), because he, and Casey too I guess to an extent, are responsible for the writing in ME3 - They actually accepted that BS and put it in the game.  This concerns me as a fan, because I really hate Mass Effect 3. Not just because it was a very weak Bioware game with very weak writing straight from the beginning, but mostly because it destroyed the entire trilogy with the terrible ending and this star child BS. That is my opinion.

 

I also have a few problems with ME2 (and ME1 actually), because they aren't perfect. Just not with anything you mentioned above though. I thought that was all written pretty darn well. The writing is of course a bit weaker in some parts, but the story as a whole was very good in ME1 and ME2.

[Farangbaa]

Then I have mistaken you for someone else.

 

I have exaggerated a bit with the moron, but that is indeed what he and a few others were writing. They are basically blaming Drew for digging the hole, which ME3 fell in. Also that Mac Walters is a great writer, and a better choice than Drew Karpyshyn, etc.

 

It is also amazing how aggressive some people can get when you mention that a game, which they enjoy, caused one of the biggest shitstorms ever, simply because it had really bad writing. Man. 

 

Seriously man, what are you on? No one said Mac is a great writer, no one said Drew sucks, no one said Mac is a better choice than Drew. All of this happens in your head. All of it.

 

And you dare accuse me of trolling you.

 

Yeah, the moron part is hyperbole. You know what that is, right?

 

But everything else has been written. I.e. The writing in ME1 and ME2 is not good, which then dug the hole that ME3 fell in. Also that Mac Walters is a great writer, and a better choice than Drew Karpyshyn. The writing in ME3 is fantastic, that many people hate it is completely irrelevant. Etc. The best was when comments from Drew were ripped out of context to try and prove that he is not a good writer. Ridiculous.

 

That is what you have been writing all along. You too I think, maybe you were mostly just trolling though.

 

Like I wrote, I gess I am going to be trolled until I either accept your opinon or simply leave. BTW, like I wrote, you can try trolling OP and the people who liked his post. That would work too, because they apparently have the same opinion as I.

 

Again, about 75% of this post has never been said. 

No one is trolling you, we're calling you out on your bullshit.

[dlux]

Seriously man, what are you on? No one said Mac is a great writer, no one said Drew sucks, no one said Mac is a better choice than Drew. All of this happens in your head. All of it.
 
And you dare accuse me of trolling you.

Again, about 75% of this post has never been said. 
No one is trolling you, we're calling you out on your bullshit.

Oh really? And what is this bullshit you are talking about? You mean my "bullshit" opinion, where I stated that Mass Effect 3 is a terrible game, with terrible writing, and that I am therefore concerned, that Mac Walters is the lead writer for ME4? Yes, I know you have a problem with my "bullshit" opinion, because you have been pestering and bugging me about that since the second page of this thread. 

 

You think ME3 is a good game with good writing, and had an ending was much, much, much better than ME2's ending. Like I wrote, it is okay if you like the game, nobody cares. Just acknowledge the general consensus, which is that most people strongly dislike the game, and then we are done here. I won't even bother asking you to just let me have my own opinion about ME3, I have already realized that you only care about your own opinion and will never accept mine.
 
BTW, I already wrote that the moron part is a hyperbole. HY-PER-BOLE. Use google if you don't know what a hyperbole is. And honestly, I'm also starting to wonder what you are on, because you keep on constantly bugging me with your denial trip, which has now turned into some sort of I-never-said-that-ME3-was-good kindergartner bullshit, or something like that, even though you are throwing fits when somebody (me) mentions that they don't like the game and it's writing.

[durasteel]

Would more work make a bad concept into a good concept? Would you say that about the existing ending? Or is the argument that with more work Drew K. would have seen that he didn't have a good idea and he would then have come up with a new one that was good because... well, he would just have had to?

 

Not being a writer, and having never even met Drew, all I can say is "maybe." There's nothing intrinsically bad about using dark energy as a plot device. Linking it to biological intelligence seems like a non-starter, but I can't rule out the possibility of someone coming up with a plot device that makes it somewhat palatable.

 

I'd say the same about the ideas expressed in the shipped and extended ending. There are a number of ways I can think of  to dramatically improve that ending. Here's one: the Reapers rebelled against the catalyst the same way the catalyst rebelled against its leviathan creators. The crucible is the catalyst's design to bring the reapers back under its control or, failing that, to destroy them. It has been working behind the scenes for cycle after cycle to try to bring these plans to fruition without letting the Harbinger & Co. know that it still exists, with a patience that only an AI could muster. It won't knowingly risk revealing itself unless there is a civilization in Citadel space which it calculates to have a chance of being able to successfully deploy its weapon. It seems like it should be possible to design the crucible and its possible effects in such a way that it makes sense in that context, filling in many of the existing plot holes. An actual mechanism to make control and destroy make even a little bit of sense would have gone a long way, and synthesis... well, that might have had to go. Another possible third ending is blindly trusting the catalyst to re-exert control over its reaper creations and to compel them to depart the galaxy forever, like the "get out of our Galaxy" ending to Babylon 5, but I confess that would need quite a lot of backfill to make it not stupid.

 

I think if either framework had been properly worked up and presented to the rest of the team for suggestion, it would have been possible to identify what worked and what didn't, what was stupid and what had potential, and add some elements that make the rest work a lot better. Even with a fully collaborative process and good feedback taken seriously by a writer, it is possible for bad content to make it into a finished product... it's just less likely.

[rekn2]

 

 

The general consensus is that Mass Effect 3 sucks. Remember the major shitstorm because of Mass Effect 3, which is probably the biggest one in all of gaming history? There was a shitstorm, because Mass Effect 3 is a terrible game with terrible, grossly illogical writing and ridiculous star child space magic bullshit.

 

I am starting to think you are simply in denial, and therefore have problems to accept the general consensus, which is of course, that Mass Effect 3 is a terrible game.

 

One thing is certain though, you certainly are butthurt and love to troll, because you apparently can't accept a different opinion. Like I said, go and troll the OP of this thread and all of the other people who liked his post, because they all dislike Mass Effect 3, not just me.

 

that would be e.t. from 1984. consoles almost didnt make it

[KaiserShep]

And Drew Karpyshyn wasn't involved in the writing of the crappy story in ME3, the game which lead to the biggest shitstorm in probably all of gaming history.

 

Wait, all of gaming history? That seems quite the feat.

[ForgottenWarrior]

What does a "Narrative Director" means, i wonder.

[dreamgazer]

Would more work make a bad concept into a good concept?

 

Nope, especially not with dark energy and its inherent problems.

 

More work might improve the bull behind Lazarus' resurrection, "Ah yes, Reapers", and the Contra III-esque mecha-larvae. However, you'll still have a pointless two-year jump that reboots the universe and intentionally destroys continuity from ME1, along with the goofy humanoid side-villain designed to distract the player from the actual main story while they "collect" colonies. 

[durasteel]

But those are actually the arguments of some of the ME3 fans. Check Alan9C's posts, which happen to be the ones you liked.

 

Yeah, it certainly is annoying to read nonsense like that.

 

I think you might be reading more into AlanC9's posts than he puts there. Alan doesn't often advocate a position of his own, but mostly challenges the conclusions other people draw from dodgy premises or broken logic. I have yet to see him advocate on behalf of the ending or its artistic integrity, or to rhapsodise about the quality of the writing behind it.

 

Just because Alan doesn't agree with your reasons for disliking ME3 doesn't mean that he's in love with the hot mess.

[dreamgazer]

Wait, all of gaming history? That seems quite the feat.

 

I can only imagine how much worse the backlash would've been had they gone the dark energy route: Reapers as literal good guys, Shepard as the unheroic antagonist who should've surrendered in ME1 to let the Reapers do their thing, and deciding whether to purge most/all of humanity or doom the galaxy to imminent extinction.  At least the OvS conflict is up for debate and keeps the Reapers as something resembling villains; preserving the galaxy from dark energy sprawl is, ultimately, a noble goal. 

[dreamgazer]

I think you might be reading more into AlanC9's posts than he puts there. Alan doesn't often advocate a position of his own, but mostly challenges the conclusions other people draw from dodgy premises or broken logic. I have yet to see him advocate on behalf of the ending or its artistic integrity, or to rhapsodise about the quality of the writing behind it.

 

Just because Alan doesn't agree with your reasons for disliking ME3 doesn't mean that he's in love with the hot mess.

 

I've noticed that this poster is guilty of binary thinking and pinning binary thinking on others, where critique instantly means you hate A and love B. 

 

I enjoy all three games of the trilogy, but I'll damn sure call all three out for their problems, especially ME2 and the path it led the series down.

[durasteel]

 

I enjoy all three games of the trilogy, but I'll damn sure call all three out for their problems, especially ME2 and the path it led the series down.

 

I also enjoyed all three overall, but the third one was the first to provide parts that I outright hated. The ending was awful, but to be honest I think the beginning might have been at least as bad. The opening scenes of Mass Effect 3 offer some of the worst dialog I've ever seen in a game that hadn't been translated from another language.

 

ME2's Lazarus project was undeniably silly, but it wasn't difficult to get over it. From my perspective, the biggest fault with 2 was that it ended with the Reaper invasion. The game didn't advance the "fight the Reapers" storyline at all, so we needed at least another game to set up "The Reapers are Coming" and provide some context and plot development (like maybe introducing the idea of the crucible superweapon) before giant metal bugs start falling into Earth's atmosphere. 

 

Ultimately, as I've said before, the entire series suffered from a lack of a cohesive narrative in place from day one. By the time you reach the foul end, a mutant slave race under "direct control," the galaxy's most annoying AI who "is" the Citadel, and the simple fact that the Reaper armada can reach every point in the galaxy within a few short years under the Reaper's own power without the need for relays made the entire Sovereign and the Citadel super-relay plot line entirely pointless.

[CronoDragoon]

Oh really? And what is this bullshit you are talking about? You mean my "bullshit" opinion, where I stated that Mass Effect 3 is a terrible game, with terrible writing, and that I am therefore concerned, that Mac Walters is the lead writer for ME4? Yes, I know you have a problem with my "bullshit" opinion, because you have been pestering and bugging me about that since the second page of this thread. 
 
BTW, I already wrote that the moron part is a hyperbole. HY-PER-BOLE. Use google if you don't know what a hyperbole is. And honestly, I'm also starting to wonder what you are on, because you keep on constantly bugging me with your denial trip, which has now turned into some sort of I-never-said-that-ME3-was-good kindergartner bullshit, or something like that, even though you are throwing fits when somebody (me) mentions that they don't like the game and it's writing.

Had you stopped with your personal opinion of me3 few would care. Several posters on this board dislike much of me3 and so long as they aren't inflammatory about it their opinion is respected. Where you got into trouble was claiming consensus without a shred of evidence as support, and when opposing evidence was suggested you simply ignored it (seriously, checkout the review thread on this board. Read what people were saying). That isn't good faith debate.

Neither is calling someone a moron. I'm honestly surprised that you think acknowledging it as hyperbole either justifies or excuses it. You simply explained what the inappropriate action you took was. In addition, its an ad hominem attack on a member, and you won't last long on this board if you continue in such a manner.

Finally, it would help your cause to address an argument specifically by quoting it. Saying "people in here have said X" when everyone can go back and see what was or wasn't thread is a good way to lose credibility when no such claim can be found.

[CronoDragoon]

Nope, especially not with dark energy and its inherent problems.
 
More work might improve the bull behind Lazarus' resurrection, "Ah yes, Reapers", and the Contra III-esque mecha-larvae. However, you'll still have a pointless two-year jump that reboots the universe and intentionally destroys continuity from ME1, along with the goofy humanoid side-villain designed to distract the player from the actual main story while they "collect" colonies.

well, it wasn't pointless for those starting with me2. Like me. I love the intro.