350 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

I also enjoyed all three overall, but the third one was the first to provide parts that I outright hated. The ending was awful, but to be honest I think the beginning might have been at least as bad. The opening scenes of Mass Effect 3 offer some of the worst dialog I've ever seen in a game that hadn't been translated from another language.

I feel the same way about the retcon-heavy intro to ME2 and "Ah yes, Reapers".
 

ME2's Lazarus project was undeniably silly, but it wasn't difficult to get over it. From my perspective, the biggest fault with 2 was that it ended with the Reaper invasion. The game didn't advance the "fight the Reapers" storyline at all, so we needed at least another game to set up "The Reapers are Coming" and provide some context and plot development (like maybe introducing the idea of the crucible superweapon) before giant metal bugs start falling into Earth's atmosphere.

Right, ME3 had to do the work of two games. All points considered, it did an admirable job, finding a way of hitting a balance between taking the Reaper extermination seriously and making it somewhat manageable as a game while the Crucible was erected.
 

Ultimately, as I've said before, the entire series suffered from a lack of a cohesive narrative in place from day one. By the time you reach the foul end, a mutant slave race under "direct control," the galaxy's most annoying AI who "is" the Citadel, and the simple fact that the Reaper armada can reach every point in the galaxy within a few short years under the Reaper's own power without the need for relays made the entire Sovereign and the Citadel super-relay plot line entirely pointless.

I wouldn't say it rendered it pointless, since the galaxy was given three years to prepare for their arrival with the knowledge that they're still coming. Then, ME2 jumps ahead two years and pushed the Reaper threat under the galaxy's carpet, so any notion of actual preparation was made moot. However, in previous cycles, the relay trap still minimized Reaper fleet losses through stealth attacks (important since they're valuable assets), preserved others resources that might get damaged during the necessities of war (Bekenstein, for one, and imagine if the galaxy got the bright idea to destroy the Citadel or relays), and inhibited galaxy cooperation.

[dreamgazer]

well, it wasn't pointless for those starting with me2. Like me. I love the intro.

Yeah, looking at ME2 as the first game of a sequence definitely changes things.

[sveners]

Had you stopped with your personal opinion of me3 few would care. Several posters on this board dislike much of me3 and so long as they aren't inflammatory about it their opinion is respected. Where you got into trouble was claiming consensus without a shred of evidence as support, and when opposing evidence was suggested you simply ignored it (seriously, checkout the review thread on this board. Read what people were saying). That isn't good faith debate.

Neither is calling someone a moron. I'm honestly surprised that you think acknowledging it as hyperbole either justifies or excuses it. You simply explained what the inappropriate action you took was. In addition, its an ad hominem attack on a member, and you won't last long on this board if you continue in such a manner.

Finally, it would help your cause to address an argument specifically by quoting it. Saying "people in here have said X" when everyone can go back and see what was or wasn't thread is a good way to lose credibility when no such claim can be found.

 

Do you have a link to that thread? The review thread? Not doubting you, just not in the mood to search lol.

 

What I've noticed is just from the heavily criticized metacritic website. Where every bioware game prior to DA2 got praise from both reviewers and customers alike. Almost identically so. ME1 was about 85/85 iirc. Their last two games received great receptions from reviewers, but not quite as much from customers.

 

Of course, the data is not very reliable.

[CronoDragoon]

Do you have a link to that thread? The review thread? Not doubting you, just not in the mood to search lol.

What I've noticed is just from the heavily criticized metacritic website. Where every bioware game prior to DA2 got praise from both reviewers and customers alike. Almost identically so. ME1 was about 85/85 iirc. Their last two games received great receptions from reviewers, but not quite as much from customers.

Of course, the data is not very reliable.

http://forum.bioware...?hl=mass effect

I wanted to show that many people in that thread felt the need to explain their low score by pointing to the endings, and made sure to explain that they lobes the rest of the game, but on rereading the first few pages there are also more than a few high review scores. Anyway I'd suspect that on amazon and met critic the low scores were mostly supplemented with identical "because of the ending" qualifications. Thread after thread upon release echoed the sentiment. Praise was qualified with ATTEH (and then the endings happened) and criticism directed at the first 95% was rare, comparatively.

edit: by page 5 the double score for ending and rest of the game had been established, and you can really see the stark contrast people felt. The typical post was along the lines of "most of the game 9/10 will bang for years" and "ending 2/10 will cry forever".

[durasteel]

2/10 is a fair grade for the ending, and both points come from Anderson's excellent and moving "I'm proud of you" speech.

 

If the game had ended with Shepard hitting the button and passing out, leaving all the questions unanswered, it would have been so much better than the starchild space magic.

[CronoDragoon]

2/10 is a fair grade for the ending, and both points come from Anderson's excellent and moving "I'm proud of you" speech.
 
If the game had ended with Shepard hitting the button and passing out, leaving all the questions unanswered, it would have been so much better than the starchild space magic.

yeah, although I'd wager the scope of the ending might start at the elevator ride for most people, in which case I would ha e given the original endings a 1/10, with music being the sole highlight.

[sveners]

http://forum.bioware...?hl=mass effect

I wanted to show that many people in that thread felt the need to explain their low score by pointing to the endings, and made sure to explain that they lobes the rest of the game, but on rereading the first few pages there are also more than a few high review scores. Anyway I'd suspect that on amazon and met critic the low scores were mostly supplemented with identical "because of the ending" qualifications. Thread after thread upon release echoed the sentiment. Praise was qualified with ATTEH (and then the endings happened) and criticism directed at the first 95% was rare, comparatively.

edit: by page 5 the double score for ending and rest of the game had been established, and you can really see the stark contrast people felt. The typical post was along the lines of "most of the game 9/10 will bang for years" and "ending 2/10 will cry forever".

 

Thanks! No idea how I missed it. Almost 2k pages does show how involved people were. Weird to see so many different people as well. These days it's mostly the usual suspects.

 

Yeah ATTEH (love that acronym) was/is the number one reason for low scores. 

[Farangbaa]

There's a lot more positive reviews in there than I expected.

[dreamgazer]

There's a lot more positive reviews in there than I expected.

There always have been.

[wolfsite]

2/10 is a fair grade for the ending, and both points come from Anderson's excellent and moving "I'm proud of you" speech.

 

If the game had ended with Shepard hitting the button and passing out, leaving all the questions unanswered, it would have been so much better than the starchild space magic.

Not really, people would still be complaining, one of the main complaints of the original ending was that it did not show the consequences of your actions in the trilogy, you would have the same issue here.

[durasteel]

Not really, people would still be complaining, one of the main complaints of the original ending was that it did not show the consequences of your actions in the trilogy, you would have the same issue here.

 

Actually, no. Ending it at the big red button would be very different in one critical respect: it would do no harm. That would have left the door wide open for BioWare to put their hearts and heads into a "Hail Mary" DLC that actually ended the game and the trilogy well. I don't know if it would have happened, but it would have theoretically been possible.

 

Instead, what we got was the Red Wedding as a series finale. For the win. 

[wolfsite]

Actually, no. Ending it at the big red button would be very different in one critical respect: it would do no harm. That would have left the door wide open for BioWare to put their hearts and heads into a "Hail Mary" DLC that actually ended the game and the trilogy well. I don't know if it would have happened, but it would have theoretically been possible.

 

Instead, what we got was the Red Wedding as a series finale. For the win. 

Oh God if they did they left it like that and did the ending as a DLC the **** storm that would raise. the would be pointing at the Mass Effect series as a perfect example of game developers cutting content out that should have been in the game in the first place.

 

Also you have to look at this without your feelings of the original ending or even the knowledge of the original ending then ask yourself are you fine if they cut the ending out to be released later as DLC (plus if for some reason the servers got shutdown then people would be left with an incomplete game)

[durasteel]

Oh God if they did they left it like that and did the ending as a DLC the **** storm that would raise. the would be pointing at the Mass Effect series as a perfect example of game developers cutting content out that should have been in the game in the first place.

 

Also you have to look at this without your feelings of the original ending or even the knowledge of the original ending then ask yourself are you fine if they cut the ending out to be released later as DLC (plus if for some reason the servers got shutdown then people would be left with an incomplete game)

 

If the DLC was free, no one would still be bitchin' at this point.

 

If the ending supplement was big enough and good enough, they could even sell it as an expansion, and while a few might be still going on about it, most of us would be happy.

[AlanC9]

If the DLC was free, no one would still be bitchin' at this point.

 

 

 

Assuming it was free and good, yep.

[Red Panda]

Wait, what's wrong with Mac Walters?

 

The guy's great at his job. I mean he wrote Garrus for writing's sake.

 

For that reason alone, I have no doubt that the next Mass Effect is in good hands.

[wolfsite]

If the DLC was free, no one would still be bitchin' at this point.

 

If the ending supplement was big enough and good enough, they could even sell it as an expansion, and while a few might be still going on about it, most of us would be happy.

Again you have to look at it from when the game is released and people are finishing there first play, not from two years later with all the release content done.

 

and releasing the ending as paid DLC would not be excusable as that would start a slippery slope scenario with other game publishers seeing a chance to bleed more money out of there products.

 

Also there is no proof that most people did not like the ending, that would be impossible to tabulate.

 

I will say it is controversial but I will not say which side is the majority as:

 

-there are those who like the ending but have either moved on or don't see the point of discussing it.

-there are people who are in the middle or don't really care about the ending

-there are people who don't like the ending

-there are people who enjoy starting flame wars and trolling which can not be counted since they are just poking the bear for a reaction.

[durasteel]

...

Also there is no proof that most people did not like the ending, that would be impossible to tabulate.

...

 

That's certainly an interesting perspective. There were a number of polls with statistically significant sample sizes (relative to total sales) that suggest otherwise, but some people, I suppose, require an actual head count and tally of everyone to be convinced.

[Sanunes]

That's certainly an interesting perspective. There were a number of polls with statistically significant sample sizes (relative to total sales) that suggest otherwise, but some people, I suppose, require an actual head count and tally of everyone to be convinced.

 

I disagree, for those polls aren't from a random population of people that bought the game.  People had to go and find those polls and then participate and with what we saw on a place like Metacritic where they removed a bunch of negative reviews because people were just creating accounts to downvote the game.

[durasteel]

I disagree, for those polls aren't from a random population of people that bought the game.  People had to go and find those polls and then participate and with what we saw on a place like Metacritic where they removed a bunch of negative reviews because people were just creating accounts to downvote the game.

 

However, people who liked the game were just as capable of expressing their opinions and casting their votes. The polls did not systematically favor negative feedback, yet overwhelmingly reflected it. Certainly there were some who posted some positive reviews and voted in favor of the game, but they were a fraction of those who were dissatisfied.

[wolfsite]

That's certainly an interesting perspective. There were a number of polls with statistically significant sample sizes (relative to total sales) that suggest otherwise, but some people, I suppose, require an actual head count and tally of everyone to be convinced.

I don't put much stock into online polls as it is possible for people to vote multiple times (if they know how) and, depending on who administers it, can be setup just right to support a specific viewpoint.

 

I have seen polls were the number of choices given always favoured  viewpoints that did not like the endings and have also seen polls that, while seeming balanced were conducted on forums that were well known for being against the endings.

 

I've even seen polls that put in neutral responses in with the negatives/positives to sway one way or the other.

 

But then again this is nothing new, you can find polls telling you chocolate is great for the body.... then you find that it was sponsored by a chocolate company which indicates they may have placed filters so the results end in there favour.

[chris2365]

However, people who liked the game were just as capable of expressing their opinions and casting their votes. The polls did not systematically favor negative feedback, yet overwhelmingly reflected it. Certainly there were some who posted some positive reviews and voted in favor of the game, but they were a fraction of those who were dissatisfied.

 

That's because studies have shown that people are a lot more likely to go out of their way to say ''I hated this and deserve better'' than they are to say ''Hey, this was a good ending'', particularly if it's something they care about. I know most of the polls conducted showed that people hated the ending (on BSN, Facebook, etc.), but what are the proportions? The ones who wanted to express their opinion more were the ones that were disappointed and felt entitled to change, and wanted to prove that however they could. They were the hardcore fans who came onto these forums to express their opinion, but even then, these forums and all of the other social media only represent a fraction of the people who have played the game. 

 

Why would casual or moderate fans of the series bother to seek out these polls? In most cases, they'd just be be indifferent or move on to something else. You can't take for granted that these gamers (which make up a much bigger portion of players) also hated the ending.

[CronoDragoon]

You can't take for granted that these gamers (which make up a much bigger portion of players) also hated the ending.

 

Yep, and that's an issue that's come up on both sides. Some people wanting to defend the ending say, "Congratulations, 2,000 people hated the ending out of millions of sales!" which is equally unfounded.

[chris2365]

Yep, and that's an issue that's come up on both sides. Some people wanting to defend the ending say, "Congratulations, 2,000 people hated the ending out of millions of sales!" which is equally unfounded.

 

Exactly. It works both ways, and in the end both sides lose. You cannot take either for granted.

[Grieving Natashina]

Some of the late comers or moderate fans have read the reviews, and don't give a crap.  I've been hearing the ranting and raving in reviews for years before I even touched the Mass Effect games.  I didn't think I'd like the game play, which is what kept me from the series, not the angry rants from the fans.   All I can say is that I'm glad I ignored the most extreme of the anger, otherwise I wouldn't have played a great series that did admittedly suffer from a weak ending.

 

Sorry, worst video game ending ever?  Here's one: The end of Neverwinter Nights 2.  Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.  Seriously, that's the ending.  The epilogue slide sounds like it was done by an overworked developer and they never got a VA to record to lines.  You don't find out about what happened to your party until the expansion and even then they are only given one-two lines by a party member-turned NPC explaining their fate.  You don't go back to the area you just saved, you have an entirely new party.  The expansion was great, but the ending to the OG campaign was one of the worst endings I've ever experienced.  I loved that series and that ending almost turned me off of any future Neverwinter Nights games.  

 

I'm not justifying the ending of ME3, nor am I hand waving the various other plot problems and inconsistencies throughout the series.  It just seems silly to call this the "worst video game ending ever" or even "BioWare's worst ending ever," after NWN2.

[Farangbaa]

There will always be more whiners on the forums: those that like the game are playing it and enjoying it, or have finished it and are satisfied and go play a different game.

 

Or they come to the forums to talk about their beloved game and see only haters, immediatly leave again.