2170 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

So, you'd rather have a bunch of faceless mannequins who can never not love you? Whose experiences may prevent that? People have preferences. 

 

Wait, suddenly, I'd rather have "faceless mannequins?"  Excuse me, but how on earth did you get "I think racial restrictions are shallow" to that??  

 

I want them to have their own opinions, yes.  If I go around the world kicking puppies and killing children out of cold blood, if the LI is a good guy, they should go, "Nope, I'm not being with a bloodthirsty moron," or if they are a good guy romancing an evil NPC, "Sorry, but you're too much of a goodie two shoes."  I don't think race is a good reason to gate content.  

 

Imho, actions and sexual preference should be the only sticking points.  Not race.

[ladyoflate]

The way I look at it is the player is forced to choose a different race/gender to get a certain outcome, the same as when the player is forced to have Alistair perform the Dark Ritual if you him to survive if you've romanced him.

 

It's a roleplaying choice with roleplaying consequences. You just pick it at the start of the game, and it has far-reaching consequences throughout the game.

 

No, see, that's roleplaying. They didn't have the DR and then tell all the female Wardens 'oh, if you don't want to die, you're gonna need a dick'.

 

I can deal with it being more difficult to romance someone as a certain race-- as a human you have to prove to an elf companion you're not...well, Leliana; and with Varric as a Qunari you have to prove you're not going to decide to massacre a town. Because that's roleplaying, and interesting. 'Just reroll' is not interesting, it's not thought-provoking, it's 'do the tutorial again, loser'.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That is the point of roleplaying.  Do you want everything catered to your "one perfect character" in a sense?  Sounds boring to me.  And life in general, is restrictive, I wouldn't see that as a negative thing either.  

I would like the option to play what I want how I want, yes.

[LPPrince]

Imho, actions and sexual preference should be the only sticking points.  Not race.

 

What about the technical aspects of it though? Would be hard to animate. Like way hard.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

"Just reroll."    I'm rather sick of that.  I had to listen to that for years when I talked about the lack of romance options for the LGBTQ community.  "Reroll as a guy, then you can the ladies you want."  Or for gay men, "Just play a woman.  It's the same thing right?"

 

Now it's "Reroll as the exact race and gender that fits the perfect specifications that a companion has and then you might get a LI that you want."  

 

I don't think it's shallow that the companions wouldn't care about the hero's race.  I think it's more shallow to have the racial restriction. 

 

"Oh, well I was going to romance you, but you're an elf and this little flag says I find elves unattractive.  Yep, your personality is keen and all.  Yep, you're helping to save the world, but I'm sorry.  You'll need to reroll.  Oh, it's not about you, it's your race." 

The sexuality example isn't an issue- Bioware has, moreso than almost all of its competitors, been sensitive to that issue. However, when they are being both inclusive of real life genders and sexualities, saying that your roleplaying desires should also have to take precedence over their story is petty, and not in the same league as being institutionally discriminated against for something you can't control.

As a bisexual individual, it upsets me that you'd reduce the struggle for equality into a hyperbole of, "I really like the antler man, but also want to have pointy ears."

[lady_v23]

So, you'd rather have a bunch of faceless mannequins who can never not love you? Whose experiences may prevent that? People have preferences. 

 

 just get a mod where being a certain race is a turnoff. (because that's not racist.)

[Mukora]

And hell, you can get just as interesting an experience with a character you can't romance as a character you can.

 

I mean, I couldn't romance Sten in Origins, or Shale, or Alistair my first time through, but they're still some of my favourite characters.

 

Aveline is completely unromanceable, and I say that makes her character arc more compelling than it would be if you could romance her.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So, you'd rather have a bunch of faceless mannequins who can never not love you? Whose experiences may prevent that? People have preferences. 

So every LI in Bioware's history that had no preferences are now 'lifeless mannequins'?

[spirosz]

I would like the option to play what I want how I want, yes.

 

Then put in the hard hours and make your own game.  

[LPPrince]

Careful folks, don't make the thread TOO serious. Threads like these too often get closed and Mr. Gaider's posts in here along with the links and discussion are quite informative.

[spirosz]

So every LI in Bioware's history that had no preferences are now 'lifeless mannequins'?

 

If we follow Natash's logic, yes. 

[Divine Justinia V]

I would like the option to play what I want how I want, yes.

 

Of course, everyone wants that, but we're not going to get it 100%

[spirosz]

And hell, you can get just as interesting an experience with a character you can't romance as a character you can.

 

I mean, I couldn't romance Sten in Origins, or Shale, or Alistair my first time through, but they're still some of my favourite characters.

 

Aveline is completely unromanceable, and I say that makes her character arc more compelling than it would be if you could romance her.

 

Yep, exactly.

 

Romances in general don't always make for a better character design.  

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

 

Wait, suddenly, I'd rather have "faceless mannequins?"  Excuse me, but how on earth did you get "I think racial restrictions are shallow" to that??  

 

I want them to have their own opinions, yes.  If I go around the world kicking puppies and killing children out of cold blood, if the LI is a good guy, they should go, "Nope, I'm not being with a bloodthirsty moron," or if they are a good guy romancing an evil NPC, "Sorry, but you're too much of a goodie two shoes."  I don't think race is a good reason to gate content.  

 

Imho, actions and sexual preference should be the only sticking points.  Not race.

Why? Is there no legitimate reason for a city elf to find being with a human repugnant, especially considering the ongoing mistreatment of elves by humans? Or that someone raised in the Chantry being faced with an outsider of another religion, who they've been told is the antithesis to their beliefs, might not want to enter into a relationship with them. It's lore. It's depth. It's HUMAN.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Of course, everyone wants that, but we're not going to get it 100%

Thus why we shouldn't want more restrictions.

 

If everyone wants to play what they want how they want, how in the world is putting as many blocks in that as possible a good idea? 

[luridedith]

Yeah I think there will be at least 3 bi options that are available to all races and genders (Cassandra?/Solas?/Scribbles?), 2 gay options available to all races (Sera/Dorian) and then other more specific ones (Varric for female dwarfs, Iron Bull for female/male humans and quanaris, Cullen for human females). 

[Grieving Natashina]

What about the technical aspects of it though? Would be hard to animate. Like way hard.

For instance, have the sex scene ala ME, only have the characters laying down during the fade in and outs.  Bending over or standing up straight and giving kisses and hugs is truly that hard to animate?

[Mukora]

I mean, really. I feel like being legitimately pissed off about this is like being pissed that you couldn't be a dwarf mage, or a human Dalish elf.

 

Disappointed, yes. Sure. But the anger some people are showing is just silly.

[Divine Justinia V]

Thus why we shouldn't want more restrictions.

 

If everyone wants to play what they want how they want, how in the world is putting as many blocks in that as possible a good idea? 

 

I'm not saying you or anyone else should "want" it, but we're not entitled to everything we want. This isn't our game.

 

I, personally, like the idea and I'm excited for it.

[spirosz]

Thus why we shouldn't want more restrictions.

 

If everyone wants to play what they want how they want, how in the world is putting as many blocks in that as possible a good idea? 

 

Because you will never be able to craft something that would please every single individual.  They're not necessarily putting "more" blocks, they're just adding a certain flavour to a characters design, which is a fair thing to do on their part or am I wrong in this perspective - in relation to Bioware shouldn't create individual avatars for characters, they always have to make sure that every character pleases everyone.

 

I don't think that is a plausible expectation to have, nor is it fair to Bioware. 

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

So every LI in Bioware's history that had no preferences are now 'lifeless mannequins'?

Well, faceless, but no. For THOSE characters, the story that the authors chose to animate them with dictates that they- as individuals- didn't care enough about race, sexuality, class, etc. to choose not to enter into a relationship. But to dictate that that can NEVER be the case is to just turn the character into a lifeless husk; nothing matters at that point. Oh, a human chevalier raped your mother after killing your dad? Nope, no mental scars there.

[Mukora]

For instance, have the sex scene ala ME, only have the characters laying down during the fade in and outs.  Bending over or standing up straight and giving kisses and hugs is truly that hard to animate?

When you have to do it for eight possible body types? Yes, actually.

 

As I mentioned before, Allan Schumaker (I think that's his last name? I'm sorry if I got it wrong!) made a really good post explaining it somewhere around here...

[Dominus]

If everyone wants to play what they want how they want, how in the world is putting as many blocks in that as possible a good idea?

People have the right to roleplay how they like, but I'm not sure that means the rest of the world's characters should necessarily re-invent their own preferences for the sake of the PC. As dave pointed out hyah, your best bet is simply building other PCs with varying races. This is the route they're going, so I'm not sure what else to tell you.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Then let's get rid of romances altogether. That way they can be 100% their own characters.

[CronoDragoon]

Thus why we shouldn't want more restrictions.

 

If everyone wants to play what they want how they want, how in the world is putting as many blocks in that as possible a good idea? 

 

Because it's not as many blocks as possible, firstly. Secondly, for some having a degree of verisimilitude enhances the experience by making one feel like they are part of an independent world, full of diverse people each with their own preferences, histories, and backgrounds.

 

 

Then let's get rid of romances altogether. That way they can be 100% their own characters.

 

That doesn't work, because nobody being interested in romance with anyone is about as realistic as everyone being interested in all races.

 

Well, actually, it is more realistic, considering you're, like, saving Thedas from Fade tears and all.