2170 réponses à ce sujet

[Ajna]

People should feel grateful that they haven't been forced to role play having a vagina for the majority of their gaming lives. That's all I'm saying on the matter. Lucky for us it's only a few that don't seem to understand that, most here are very supportive of we female gamers and I appreciate the hell out of them!

Edit: Now I'm really done on the subject, back to the silliness!

[PessimistPanda]

I don't get the sense that this forum is very supportive of female gamers at all, for all that BioWare's staff might claim that inclusivity is "part of their mandate".

[kalasaurus]

Agreed. It's just sad that some people in the world perceive having a large amount of females (as well as lesbians) in a cast being unfair... wtf.

 

It is sad indeed.  I can't say I'm too surprised by the reactions, though. *sigh*

[AkiKishi]

 

Agreed. It's just sad that some people in the world perceive having a large amount of females (as well as lesbians) in a cast being unfair... wtf.

 

That kind of depends on whether you think the 3/6 party split is fair or not. I'd have made Iron Bull female, just because it would be even more different that Sten.

Female Warden could have been interesting too (not that Blackwall isnt , but still).

[phantomrachie]

Anders was a victim of herosexuality in DA2. Cohesive writing was not even a consideration. You only have to look at how shocked people were to see this came out of left field. 

 

Cassandra has a one sided history, while its not conclusive it points to a pattern. We have zero, nothing nada to indicate the same towards women. Hopefull since the whole herosexual thing has been swept away,she won't get placed as something just to make numbers.

 

Dude - what pattern? Its like you don't even read the rebuttals to your argument.

 

Everytime someone, you included, brings up that kiss on the cheek as an indication that Cass has to be straight, there are multiple posts from people who kiss friends on the cheek or from bisexual men and women saying how annoying it is that people assume they are straight just because they are with someone of the opposite sex.

 

As for Anders, all his line in DA:A means is that he wasn't gay and that perhaps he had a preference for woman, like Zevran, it doesn't mean that he never had a relationship with a man or that he never could.

 

Hardly a victium of playersexuality.

[KaiserShep]

Anders was a victim of herosexuality in DA2. Cohesive writing was not even a consideration. You only have to look at how shocked people were to see this came out of left field.

 

Anders' sexuality doesn't really have much to do with cohesive writing. I think people are taking his single passing conversation in the City of Amaranthine and blowing it up into this big detail that determines outright that he is absolutely a certain way, and there's no possibility that there's more to certain facets of his character.  Anyway, of all the things Anders' character could be considered to be a victim of, I wouldn't really put that on the list. If you are well familiar with him in Awakenings, his sexuality is not the first thing you're going to notice.

 

 

Cassandra has a one sided history, while its not conclusive it points to a pattern. We have zero, nothing nada to indicate the same towards women. Hopefull since the whole herosexual thing has been swept away,she won't get placed as something just to make numbers.

 

Who cares if there's nothing in past material that shows her being romantically involved with women? Let's look at a similar case: Leliana. The only real difference between Leliana and Cassandra is that Cassandra has a story about her past that was available to us prior to the game where she becomes a companion, whereas Leliana's Song was part of the whole Origins package. Looking at the history alone, I have nothing to indicate that Leliana would be interested in men, so what would be the difference if Cassandra got the same treatment? Why wouldn't it make sense? I mean, does a bisexual person have to alternate to stay part of the club or something?

[Steelcan]

 

Who cares if there's nothing in past material that shows her being romantically involved with women?

I do

[PessimistPanda]

Who cares if there's nothing in past material that shows her being romantically involved with women?

Didn't you know?

 

If you aren't obviously gay or bisexual from birth, then you can never be.

[Aries_cz]

I'm sure I saw it confirmed by someone somewhere that there will be nudity...but not gratiitous, it will be very tasteful, carefully placed camera angles and shadows etc, where the hell did I see that? *grumble*...I don't expect even nipples. I'm thinking more...ME? And by ME I mean ME1..

 

If that is true, then it will be awesome. Mass Effect 1 had a great "romance" scene. Witcher 2 kinda beat that, but that is because CD Projekt Red do not care about stupid American moralists

[KaiserShep]

I do

 

That's fine, but what's the difference?

[Grieving Natashina]

Dude - what pattern? Its like you don't even read the rebuttals to your argument.

 

Everytime someone, you included, brings up that kiss on the cheek as an indication that Cass has to be straight, there are multiple posts from people who kiss friends on the cheek or from bisexual men and women saying how annoying it is that people assume they are straight just because they are with someone of the opposite sex.

 

As for Anders, all his line in DA:A means is that he wasn't gay and that perhaps he had a preference for woman, like Zevran, it doesn't mean that he never had a relationship with a man or that he never could.

 

Hardly a victium of playersexuality.

 

I completely agree with you.

 

I wanted to mention that a lot of bisexual men stay in the closet in our world.  While Thedas is indeed much more open minded, let's look at the facts here:

 

1) He had just met the Warden.  I don't know a lot of non-hetero folks that out themselves to strangers much, especially in their 20s (which I think was Anders approximate age.)

 

2) The Warden was his boss.  Again, a person's sexuality isn't something that you bring up to your boss unless you really have to.

 

3) He didn't know the Warden for very long.

 

By DA2, he had changed and no, I don't think it was just because of Justice.  I think he had also grown some as a person and was sick of hiding that part of himself.  By DA2, he was very lonely and he needed to tell someone and he went to the only other guy (Hawke) he thought might understand.  

 

Let's also throw in the fact (yes, the fact) that David Gaider wrote Anders as bi all along, going back to DA:A.  Google "david gaider blog anders" and it'll pop right up.  

 

Folks of all ages come out of the closet all the time.  I've met gay men that had had girlfriends, wives and even kids, that didn't come out until they were older.  Sometimes even as old as their 50s.  A good friend of mine came out as pansexual when she was 40 years old.  

 

I know Thedas is fantasy, but there are some parallels between that world and ours.  I think one of those things the two worlds share (out of the many little things) is that folks evolve, change and even discover new things about themselves.  This isn't something that magically stops at any age, we're always growing as people.  For some, that also means coming to terms with their sexuality.

 

As far as Cassandra goes, I really think folks are reading way too much into a kiss on the cheek because they want to.  They want to point at that little scene and have it as concrete proof.  Well, I doubt Cassandra is going to be a lesbian, so why is it a big deal that she might have come out of the closet as bisexual since that point?  Doesn't the anime take place something like 15-20 years before the start of Inquisition, when she was (according to fan guesses) in her late teens to early 20s?

 

Also, her possibly being bisexual isn't the same as being unavailable to men.  So that's something that should be nipped in the bud now.  If she's available to both genders, then why does anyone care?  No one is missing out, so I'm not sure what the problem is.  Is it because she might be (gasp!) not hetero, therefore making her less appealing in some odd way?

 

Oh, and I'm sorry, but I have no pity for folks that are complaining that this game "is skewed towards women."  First off, this game is made for everyone, regardless of gender.  Secondly, it isn't a big news flash that there are a lot of powerful women that help rule Thedas.  Third, just because women (especially straight women) could have as many LIs as straight men doesn't mean that the game is showing favoritism to them.

[archav3n]

That kind of depends on whether you think the 3/6 party split is fair or not. I'd have made Iron Bull female, just because it would be even more different that Sten.

Female Warden could have been interesting too (not that Blackwall isnt , but still).

 

Thing is females clearly want unfairness since they mentioned most games favored men. What good logic 

[PessimistPanda]

Stop it! You're making sexuality a more complex issue than I initially thought, and I'm irrationally afraid of things I don't understand!

[daveliam]

I read that Sera is a female LI only. Couple with gender inequality in companion I get the feeling this game is made for female gamers only.

 

This was seriously a WTF moment for me.  I'm not even sure how in the world having only 3 female companions makes this game "for female gamers only". 

 

Anders was a victim of herosexuality in DA2. Cohesive writing was not even a consideration. You only have to look at how shocked people were to see this came out of left field. 

 

Cassandra has a one sided history, while its not conclusive it points to a pattern. We have zero, nothing nada to indicate the same towards women. Hopefull since the whole herosexual thing has been swept away,she won't get placed as something just to make numbers.

 

You never respond to the posts that I make where I use myself as an example, but I'll try again.  If there would have been an anime of my life when I was in my teens, I would have appeared to be straight (and gotten about as much play as Cassandra did in her story.....).  I was not.  I'm not even bisexual.  I'm gay.  Straight up gay.  But I've had girlfriends in the past.  I have not been "retconned".  Part of growing up is figuring out your sexuality.  So, let's say that you are right and that platonic kiss on the cheek (again, I kissed a good friend of mine on the cheek when I met her for lunch on Thursday -- still gay) was an indication that she was tentatively interested in that guy.  There are still two things that you fail to account for:  1.)  How does that mean that she is not bisexual? and 2.) It was twenty years earlier.  Things change, including someone's understanding of their sexuality.  You seem to be using a lack of evidence as evidence.  It doesn't work that way.  If you are correct about that platonic cheek kiss (which I don't think you are), that would only mean that twenty years earlier, she was either straight or bisexual.  If she's bisexual in DA: I, nothing has changed.

 

How the flip was he "a victim of herosexuality"? In Awakening, he has a line about how "all I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools," and his  opening quest in DA2 has him distraught over losing a male lover. Interest in both sexes was established and didn't come out of the blue, despite how some people didn't catch on to the latter instance.

 

He wasn't a "victim of herosexuality".  He was a bisexual man who expressed interest in females when you first meet him and males when you meet him next.  He flat out says, "I fall in love with the person, not the body." IN the game.  He was confirmed as bisexual from his writer, who indicated that he perceived him as bisexual back in the DA: A development phase.  The amount of mental gymnastics that people go through in order to say that he is playersexual or retconned is silly and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of human sexuality.

 

I do

 

Again, unless you can explain a reason that isn't, "Well she kissed a male friend on the cheek twenty years ago", I'm not exactly sure what you are basing this on.

[PessimistPanda]

Well, now I feel ganged-up on. 

[Milan92]

Didn't you know?

 

If you aren't obviously gay or bisexual from birth, then you can never be.

 

Well, I guess this is good news for Sera fans then. Since that would mean she can still become bisexual.

[Grieving Natashina]

Stop it! You're making sexuality a more complex issue than I initially thought, and I'm irrationally afraid of things I don't understand!

The sarcasm is strong with this one.  

[daveliam]

Well, I guess this is good news for Sera fans then. Since that would mean she can still become bisexual.

 

If Sera says that she's a lesbian, then it is likely that she is a lesbian.  If she never says that she's not interested in men, then yes, she could be bisexual, but only interested in female Inquisitors.  Sexuality is not as cut and dry as people want it to be. 

 

Keep in mind that Kaidan, Anders, and Cass (the three who come up in the "RETCONNED!" discussions) never self-identified their sexuality.  The players did based on very little information.

[Milan92]

If Sera says that she's a lesbian, then it is likely that she is a lesbian.  If she never says that she's not interested in men, then yes, she could be bisexual, but only interested in female Inquisitors.  Sexuality is not as cut and dry as people want it to be. 

 

Oh I know that. I just thought it was cute. I see posts sometimes claiming that just because someone is straight, doesn't mean they will never become bisexual in the future. But when someone would say that just because a girl is lesbian, doesn't mean she can't become bisexual in the future, that person gets branded a homophobe.

 

Aren't double standards lovely?

[PessimistPanda]

The sarcasm is strong with this one.  

Sarcasm is the panda's strongest defence against its natural predators.

[daveliam]

Oh I know that. I just thought it was cute. I see posts sometimes claiming that just because someone is straight, doesn't mean they will never become bisexual in the future. But when someone would say that just because a girl is lesbian, doesn't mean she can't become bisexual in the future, that person gets branded a homophobe.

 

Aren't double standards lovely?

 

Can you point to a post that called someone a homophobe who made the claim that Sera's sexuality might be fluid?  Or are you using hyperbole?  Because I'm pretty sure that the majority of the people pointing out that sexuality is complicated wouldn't blindly ignore it for an LGB person. 

[Milan92]

Can you point to a post that called someone a homophobe who made the claim that Sera's sexuality might be fluid?  Or are you using hyperbole?  Because I'm pretty sure that the majority of the people pointing out that sexuality is complicated wouldn't blindly ignore it for an LGB person. 

 

I was just talking in general. Don't got anything directly linked to Sera.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I'm confused about all this discussion of 'becoming' bi or 'becoming' straight or whatever.

 

Yes, sometimes, rarely, people have what we call a fluid sexuality. One day they may have a preference towards women, one day they might have a preference towards men. That is absolutely fine.

 

However, the majority are lucky enough to not have their sexuality change after puberty, and it certainly doesn't usually 'gradually' happen. It's more about yourself coming to terms with it over time, particularly in the case of homosexuality and bisexuality.

 

So yeah, there is absolutely no such thing as 'becoming straight' or 'becoming' gay. You may realise that you were one of those things and that you were hiding it from yourself, but you still always were of that sexuality.

 

A few years after puberty, the sexuality of someone who does not have a fluid sexuality has very very little chance of changing, and usually only changes to asexuality due to extremely traumatic events (such as some people struggling to form sexual relationships with people of the offender's gender after rape cases).

[daveliam]

I was just talking in general. Don't got anything directly linked to Sera.

 

I think that there is a correlation between the people who don't think that Anders, Kaidan, and (possibly) Cass were retconned and LGBT folks and allies.  I wonder if it's because people who have really had to struggle with their own sexuality are more aware of the variety of ways that sexuality can be manifested?  Like, if I were a straight guy, I might never have had to really confront my own sexuality since I fall within the "norm".  And if that were the case, I might not be able to relate to a character or person whose sexuality appears to "change".  But since I'm gay, I had to address my own sexuality consciously and, because like tends to attract like, have numerous LGB friends so I've seen that it's very realistic for a person to change how they outwardly represent their sexuality to the world or even how they self-identify. 

 

Perhaps that this is one reason why it seems like it's often straight guys one side of this discussion and LGBT folks on the other side. 

[WildOrchid]

If Sera says that she's a lesbian, then it is likely that she is a lesbian.  If she never says that she's not interested in men, then yes, she could be bisexual, but only interested in female Inquisitors.  Sexuality is not as cut and dry as people want it to be. 

 

Keep in mind that Kaidan, Anders, and Cass (the three who come up in the "RETCONNED!" discussions) never self-identified their sexuality.  The players did based on very little information.

 

This.

 

I ran out of likes so.. People can guess Cass is bi/gay/straight because she doesn't have a sexuality yet. Sera is gay, it's been confirmed she only likes women so she has a set sexuality, therefore people can't guess her sexuality.

 

 

 

Edit: fixed the post, it didn't make sense.