29 réponses à ce sujet

[Dale]

I’ve played ME1 6 times, ME2 9 times, ME3 1 time.   My research on the web reveals other gamers with a similar scenario.  In 2011 the gaming industry made more money (I’m told) than the movie industry.   When megabucks and investors are at stake, gaming companies cannot produce mediocre games & expect to recover their investment.  Second, the clientele (players) have grown up and expect more than “I shot you before you shot me” – (now I’ll go play on my skateboard).  

 

Have you noticed the never-ending  list of CREDITS that roll?   No longer are computer geeks designing boring games with typical [stupid] Judas betrayal storylines.   Instead, Hollywood’s Writer’s Guild is involved with writing interesting and compelling storylines which frees up the geeks to focus on TRYING to keep our games from crashing every hour on the hour.  

 

What do we HATE and what do we LIKE?   Why?   It’s a question about US, not the game.  Likely I’m 95% older than most gamers out there.   I’ve been in the business world for decades and when it comes to psychology, I’ve been trained by the master himself Ned Hermann – the pioneer of left and right brain psychology – a field of study where many have written their doctorate thesis.    I’ve compared notes with my older sister who teaches at the U of Abq who also has a PhD in both psychology and PhD in industrial management.   I ask her what makes a great video game which is a question about US.  

 

Doc Sis:  People want (and need) to be HEARD.  Unfortunately most parents are not affable & don’t encourage their kids & teenagers to ASK questions and unlock the latent potential they have.  Ever wonder why so many of them endlessly fiddle-fart nonstop with their cell phones?    Second, we need to feel we’ve done something SIGNIFICANT with our [mostly] boring routine lives and this virtual reality does  just that.    Ever wonder why deadbeats join a cause greater than themselves?   Purpose & acceptance.   Drill down further….the news hasn’t changed in 50 years (just the names & places).   Boring.   Cartoons in super HD (4k) and 3D & robots fighting and smashing up the city.  Duhh.   Watching extreme this and extreme that on TV.  Boring.   What makes us really tick?   As one philosopher put it “you can lie to the world – but at least be TRUE to yourself”.  The fact is, we need to admit we are all SOCIAL creatures that need acceptance – and some try to ram that down our throats with an assortment of various mind games.   Correct redirection of that “game” hits a spark in us.   Well now, aren’t you a HERO in the game!  

 

Me:  that “spark” was really unfolding as we compared ourselves with other races in ME3.  Note the “wet towel” in our faces when we read Liara’s notes about uncovering the Prothean.   Before, we all reverenced them with awe and worship – later to discover they were just Imperialistic & dominating.  Nothing new there.   Javik’s favorite line: ”you stupid primitives!”   But what REALLY made ME2 so compelling?  CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT --- and not only one character but 12!

 

We love issues, situations, & mysteries that we THINK about all day long.  Fortunately in a video game, we can have some choices in the matter – as opposed to passive entertainment where we control nothing.  ME2 was not all about Shepherd.  It was plenty about the “dirty dozen” -- then getting to know them more by doing their loyalty missions.  

 

We ask ourselves, “what would we have done in the same situation?”.  Out of the 12, SURELY you can relate to one or more characters.   My favorites were Garrus & Legion.  Garrus because of his warm heart and gracious demeanor and Legion because it caused me to really think about how nutty we humans really are sometimes.  What is “life” anyway?   That made you think in both ME2 and ME3.   Jack(lyn) was also very compelling.   I imagine the story writers spent countless hours over the table designing & speculating on her character.

 

The professional actors and actresses for voiceovers where just magnificent!   When I first heard the Elusive Man’s voice, I said to myself – “I know that voice from somewhere”.   It happens to be the actor Martin Sheen.    Seems like playing ME2 9 times, I always seem to discover something new I hadn’t seen before.

 

BOTTOM LINE:   What makes any play, movie, video game (whatever) really GREAT (instead of just okay) is when the story contains solvable mysteries, character development, challenges, exposed villains, puzzles, humor, surprises, and most importantly, a significant TEAMWORK struggle with a grand finale of “YES! WE DID IT!”.   That was seriously lacking in ME3 – though there were 4 different solo endings.   I’ve never read so much anger, frustration, and hate mail because of it.  Alternatively in ME2 – “YES, WE DID IT!”.   ME3 could have had a 5^th ending where they all gathered for a victory party at Shep’s apartment.     Looks like Bioware’s script writer went on vacation near the end of ME3 game creation.   Anymore said would be a spoiler.

 

We all have our rants and raves about the game (to each their own).    There will ALWAYS be gripers and complainers.  Notice that any youtube video has about 1% thumbs down on any subject.  On the web, there are nearly a MILLION suggestions & gripes by various ME players.  I hope there is a ME4 but not holding my breath since (from a business perspective) it’s not likely.   

 

Hopefully Bioware’s marketing department is doing their job (reading comments like this) – not to fix ME games but to assess customer feedback for new games.    RANTS:  don’t play a 20-30 minute movie or gameplay (ME2, ME3) without giving us a chance to SAVE when the game can go multiple directions.  To play ME3’s 4 endings (actually 5), I had to “endure” a 35 minute movie each.  A SAVE at the last moment would allow us to try different things.   Lastly, the weapon mods were extremely clumsy in ME1 and especially ME3.  A simple drag & drop or checkbox would have done nicely.  Such bad game menu “mechanics” & and lack of attention to detail (menus) is unforgivable.  For the message terminal, a green screen (messages) and red screen (no messages).   As such, we can stay focused on the game.  RAVES:  job WELL DONE on the ME series and that says a lot for someone gaming since 1994.

 

Thank you.

Dale

[the_last_krogan]

because me2 is epic 

the sci-fi dirty dozen

[geth47]

" In 2011 the gaming industry made more money (I’m told) than the movie industry"

 

 

This is inaccurate. While gaming is more lucrative than movie theaters, it´s not more lucrative than movies as a whole. 

 

Movies also make money from television, rents, dvd and blu-ray sales (VHS seems to have died or greatly diminished), officially sanctioned downloads and streams.

[AlanC9]

 To play ME3’s 4 endings (actually 5), I had to “endure” a 35 minute movie each.  A SAVE at the last moment would allow us to try different things. 

 

There was an autosave, you know. Easy enough to copy on PC; I don't know if console guys have any way to do that.

 

Whether Bio should go out of their way to let people do this is something we've been discussing on the DAI boards recently. Some folks there are amazingly hostile to the idea of reloading to try out the different choices. 

[geth47]

On PC, I just move the auto-save to another directory, There´s an auto-save after anderson dies and you arrive near the space kid. That´s the perfect moment to save if you want to trigger the rejection ending by dialogue or shoot the kid. You you just want to try the 3 main endings, wait for the conversation with the catalyst to end, then there will be a new auto-save. 

[Rusted Cage]

That's a great post Dale, thanks for sharing. I think you're spot-on about the character development stuff being the glue holding ME2 together, without this I'm not sure the actual storyline could hold up - just my opinion but it doesn't compare to the first game in my book.

 

One of the most fascinating things the Mass Effect trilogy has taught me is how much people like to "ship". It seems the most common question by those starting a new playthrough is "who should I romance?" rather than "what class should I play?" As if the entire game can be defined by those few moments of meaningful dialogue with the chosen love interest. How does that work psychologically, when one can play the game multiple times and know the story inside out but still feel that each playthrough is unique depending on who Shepard sleeps with?

[Dale]

Rusted Cage:  I was really HOPING someone would respond to the actual QUESTION of this thread.  You're the first.   Yes, as you mentioned, we are quite SOCIABLE creatures.  The first time I played ME1 I romanced nobody.   Then playing it again & again, it really made a DIFFERENCE with who you shared (romanced) the story with.    After playing ME2 nine times, I romanced all the gals.  

 

For some reason, though Liara has that "cat's paw inciting voice" she seemed to be divided in her attention so I just gravitated to Tali in ME2 (don't tell my wife).   This also came out in ME3 very strongly.   Though a very competent & strong woman, she showed herself to be "touchable" when dialogue with Shep she said "I want you too --- if you're still interested"....and risked dying over it. 

 

Such "glue" doesn't go unnoticed like the firm bond and handshake between James and Shep (apartment).  No words were even said at that moment when they stared at each other with loyalty, respect, & honor.   The director of that scene needs an academy award.

 

BTY-that's motion capture technology.  About 50 reflective dots are stuck on the face of an actor.  The special cameras & computer track the dots movements and WRAP any character around it.  That's what makes it so realistic.   There's a real human behind those scenes.   I saw this demonstrated at NAB-2000 (Las Vegas).  Two guys in shorts and T-shirts going at it with broom sticks.  In the computer monitor showed Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker fighting it out with light sabers.  Then someone instantly changed them to Bugs Bunny & Daffy Duck going at it.  Not so in the old days, the entire thing was computer generated and very unrealistic & jerky.  Note how realistic the Omega pole dancers move.   Real people -- a little difficult to see emotion on a Turian's face but Garrus' smooth-as-silk voice really adds character to that "glue".

 

With most folks copy-pasting others' copy-paste, thanks for your ORIGINAL thoughts on the subject.

 

Thank you!

[Rusted Cage]

In real life how much is a person defined by their sexuality? I mean, when I meet somebody for the first time I don't immediately speculate on their sexual preferences (unless we all do in a subconscious fashion during the first impression stage), indeed what a person does in private is probably the least interesting thing about them.

 

However, in a gaming world like Mass Effect, we define our Shepard by his or her relationships. Why is this more exaggerated in a game than in everyday life?

 

Also, I get your point about the mo cap in that the closer a character looks to reality the more we'll identify with it.

[themikefest]

Nice post.

 

Gaming since 1994. What was your first game you played?

 

 I remember my first game I played was in 1974, Pong. Ah. Good times.

[Dale]

Hi Themikefest–

 

Thinking back further, I remember going to the bank and getting $10 worth of quarters and playing INVADERS (booth) until I got a blister on the palm of my hand.   I think that was around 1985.   After that was Packman (booth).   Then it all happened –

 

I went to visit my older brother who was showing off his new N64 console.  Star Wars – Shadow of the Empire (1996).   He handed me the controller which I promptly handed it back saying “I don’t think I’d be interested in that”.  So I watched him.   After back seat driving for a while, I told him 

 

“you missed a great opportunity to run across the bridge, have them chase you, take cover over here, line them up and pick them off --  here give me the d**m controller!”.   

 

After that, I was hooked.    Then Turok.   IMHEO, the best was Zelda Ocarina of Time (well it tied with Perfect Dark).   I think they remade Zelda OOT recently in 3D on another platform since the game was THAT good.

 

If you’re like me, I care more about the story (first) and technology (second).   Those two games are so outstanding that they are worth purchasing a N64 console just to play those.  Still have my N64 and PS1.  If I recall, Zelda OOT was one of the few games to get a perfect 10 (and I can see why).   Perfect Dark was right behind.

 

I was nuts about the Tomb Raider series (1-4), then 5 went to the dogs & has been trying to catch up ever since.  The current TR (84) is quite good – and about the goriest blood & guts since DOOM3.   Obviously the ME series is an infatuation with me.   The reason for this thread & asking folks’ thoughts.   People ask me frequently “what are your best games?”.  Tough question (as you know).  That’s like what’s your favorite food?   Depends on mood.   I'm asked the same question about scuba diving ("I'm a world-class underwater videographer for sport) -- been everywhere.   Well, the BEST is -- "what are you interested in?" I ask.

 

As mentioned in my original post (of this thread) – I try to point out things that appeal to me and that is character development, camaraderie, trust, challenge, and a “yes, we did it!” finale.   The game that gets the gold, silver, & bronze medal for the most fantastic grand finale is Max Payne-1 … though the game was okay.  

 

My favorites are the Splinter Cell series, Fallout-3, and FNV.   Would you believe I played F3 for nine (9) months!   I must be nuts!  The game that took my brain out, spun it around, and stuffed it back into my head was Half-Life2.   It still has part of my soul – that no other game has ever done (or come close to).  Recently Dishonored was fantastic—Themikefest, you’ve just GOT to play this (if not already).  Make sure to get the 3 DLCs.

I generally wait about 2 years after a game comes out for two reasons:  (1) iron out the bugs (2) get all the DLCs.   Next year I’ll probably do Skyrim.  

 

BTY-a question I’m very interested in asking a heavy veteran like you – do you notice a DIFFERENCE in the mentality of the STEAM vs ORIGIN forums?   Folks on the Origin forums seem to be a more ADULT – versus the bratty juvenile delinquents on STEAM.

 

I notice you’re icons show you’re a big Dragon Age expert.  Please tell me your thoughts too.  Is it anything like Oblivion or Skyrim?   Solo or team building?   What turns you on about Dragon Age?

 

-Dale

 

“if nobody knows you by your real name, then what’s the purpose of an alias?”

[ahsari2014]

ME-1 has my love. It has something. Call it magic. I don't know. I hope ME-4 will be released in 2015 . It gives me the oportunity to play ME-1 for the 7th time. And this time no Liara as my loveinterest. But my hearth will probably melt. Again. You know. I see now how ME-2 is a game for Liara haters. They only have to endure LoftSb. ME-2 had the anticipated new gameplay. ME-3 is dark . Very dark. Fighting in the ruines of London is pretty much horror. Defending the missiles is kinda epic. And then ofcourse Shepard is almost killed by Harbinger. Then she wakes up and there you have an epic horrorscene. It gets under my skin.

[CptFalconPunch]

ME-1 has my love. It has something. Call it magic. 

Still to this day I can't point out anything in ME1 and say, "thats what makes the game good". It is all so well combined together.

 

Although I'd argue ME1 had more horror elements than any other ME game.

 

I too hope ME4 will be like ME1. Don't copy it just make is as "magical"

[ahsari2014]

So many horrible things in masseffect 1. And yet everything is adorable. Remember the first husk you encountered and killed. You realise they are transformed people when they attack and you destroy them. So sad. And remember these peculiar geth that were jumping up and down . Attaching themself on walls . What happened to them ?

[CptFalconPunch]

So many horrible things in masseffect 1. And yet everything is adorable. Remember the first husk you encountered and killed. You realise they are transformed people when they attack and you destroy them. So sad. And remember these peculiar geth that were jumping up and down . Attaching themself on walls . What happened to them ?

 

The game is so immersive and atmospheric it makes up for a lot of negatives. 

 

The community didn't like geth hoppers perhaps? I

[Lhawke]

There is also Shepard that makes ME2 the best game for me.

 

Shepard in ME3 was nothing like the person I played in me2 and 1. It was difficult to remember that this was my renegade Shepard I had imported from two games. It was more like a paragon shepard making bad decisions.

 

The three things that made ME2 greater to me than ME3 were the characters, Shepard's multiple personalities plus the final mission.  All of these things together is what keeps me still playing the trilogy.

 

In ME3 there is only the crew. I do not care for ME3 Shepard very much or the plot. I like the combat though and I have even solo'd a little multiplayer though I am terrible at it.

[Oni Changas]

Shepard in ME2 as a renegade was one of the best player characters in my opinion. ME1 also had some great lines too.

[Dale]

As one philosopher put it, "we speak so that we know we are not alone".   I'm rather amazed & intrigued at your thoughtful & interesting comments (with subtanace) to the original question of my post here which is basically "I thought ME2 was excellent; here's my reasons & opinions why -- what's your point of view?"  -- including some of my other posts (questions) that pertain to human thought & experiences

 

Though we have different points of view, IMO it looks like we're pretty much saying similar things.  Though entirely individualistic, we still breath the same air, have the same red blood in our veins, respond similarly to affection, love, hatred, & purpose.   Note how we just LOVE to HATE the Council!   As mentioned, we need to ask ourselves WHY we play ME1 & ME2 so many times and ME3 less times.   No doubt there will be some that play ME3 99 times  -- but the general consensus is what is interesting to me.

 

Ahsari2014's post (#11) was very compelling.   In a few words - communicated so much.   Reminds me of playing Half-Life2 + DLCs (which still owns part of my soul).

[ahsari2014]

As one philosopher put it, "we speak so that we know we are not alone".   I'm rather amazed & intrigued at your thoughtful & interesting comments (with subtanace) to the original question of my post here which is basically "I thought ME2 was excellent; here's my reasons & opinions why -- what's your point of view?"  -- including some of my other posts (questions) that pertain to human thought & experiences
 
Though we have different points of view, IMO it looks like we're pretty much saying similar things.  Though entirely individualistic, we still breath the same air, have the same red blood in our veins, respond similarly to affection, love, hatred, & purpose.   Note how we just LOVE to HATE the Council!   As mentioned, we need to ask ourselves WHY we play ME1 & ME2 so many times and ME3 less times.   No doubt there will be some that play ME3 99 times  -- but the general consensus is what is interesting to me.
 
Ahsari2014's post (#11) was very compelling.   In a few words - communicated so much.   Reminds me of playing Half-Life2 + DLCs (which still owns part of my soul).

. I am really really sorry . Dale. I was off topic. What is specificly good about playing ME-2 . I will come back at this .

[ahsari2014]

The improved combat system is satisfying. The planets you visit have are attractive. The missions where you meet former squadmates are an adventure. The start of the game where you see Shepard being rebuild is very exciting. Because we all know the ending of me-1. And there so many variety possible in ME-2. I gotta say that the amount of missions and submissions and many more is overwhelming. It feels like a luxury to skip some minor submissions. There is more !!! I should go.

[Dale]

 I am really really sorry . Dale. I was off topic. What is specificly good about playing ME-2 . I will come back at this . 

 

ahsari2041:  I was paying you a very high compliment for your thoughts (no apology was expected).  You seem to be a deep thinker -- in contrast to the skateboard mentality on the Steam forums.   Thank you! 

[DarthLaxian]

Easy to answer:

 

1. It has a better ending (unless you fail of course) - not a crappy one like ME3

 

2. Choices were still choices not stuff that was retconned just because (rachni-queen anyone?)

 

3. because you were in it - not disconnected from the real thing (hell, we build a "weapon" (crucible) but we are not allowed to fly there and watch it beeing made? have to defend it from reaper forces? etc...just talking to the real major players via vid-com was not really all that great either...I mean, sure it was nice, but some real face-time would have been nice, too...then there is great fighting going on and we don't really have a choice were to go first (what if I for example didn't much care for the turians - after all their influence kept humanity down for year (hell, they kind of remind me of Star Trek's Vulcans in a way!) - and would like to help the Asari first? etc. It was too linear for a game where choices supposedly matter!)

 

4. because back then EA/Bioware/the devs/the marketing etc. were not lying to us (lots of different endings...bah my ass, different colour explosion, and small changes in the video-sequences that follow...choices matter - bah, retcons (rachni queen!)...*shakes his head*)

 

...(many more, but I will stop here for now)

 

greetings LAX

[ahsari2014]

ME-2 is an adventure.

 I am really really sorry . Dale. I was off topic. What is specificly good about playing ME-2 . I will come back at this . 
 
ahsari2041:  I was paying you a very high compliment for your thoughts (no apology was expected).  You seem to be a deep thinker -- in contrast to the skateboard mentality on the Steam forums.   Thank you!

. That is a bi g compliment. There are many forummembers with deep thoughts. Thank you too.

[ahsari2014]

I am better in answering this when i play ME-2. I t is just great to play. Many little things you see or notice that is the cherry on top. I have mentioned these in Me-2 forum. It has been several months since iplayed it.

[ahsari2014]

One of the nicest scene in me-2 is when you meet Garrus again as Archangel. He takes his helmet of and yep there he is. And that voice. Cool character. I love him.

[ShepnTali]

ME2 is still my favorite. I don't care if it's a masterpiece or not. I just always enjoy playing through it the most.

And I love Shadow broker and the Kasumi dlc quite a bit.