I like Thane and all, but I preferred it when it was Joker who showed up instead.
I feel you on that one, seeing as Joker had saved Shep's ass just as many times as Shep saved the galaxy. Though I like to imagine when (my) Shep saw Thane she recalled saying "You won't be alone for long."
Lets make a deal. When we stop hearing about "your" Shepard every second post of yours, I'll stop complaining.
Or when you learn to use the MultiQuote feature. Either works for me.
Let's see mine is Anderson (father figure in a sense), Ashely ( Love interest), and Joker ( long time crew member, and a good friend).
Dude, seriously... let it rest. That horse hasn't been just dead, it's been turned to glue, sniffed, hallucinated about and had a flash game developed about it.
But it's so much more fun if I don't. While he's right about it being more justified pre-EC, why on Earth would I think about some crazy blue chick who dies randomly?
But it's so much more fun if I don't. While he's right about it being more justified pre-EC, why on Earth would I think about some crazy blue chick who dies randomly?
Well, she did kind of make sure you had a life again, so there's that. I can certainly why some players felt she was pushed too hard by BioWare though.
Makes me glad I didn't read threads like this before I played the ME games for the first time last week. 
But it's so much more fun if I don't. While he's right about it being more justified pre-EC, why on Earth would I think about some crazy blue chick who dies randomly?
Well, she did kind of make sure you had a life again, so there's that. I can certainly why some players felt she was pushed too hard by BioWare though.
Makes me glad I didn't read threads like this before I played the ME games for the first time last week.
If that's the case, shouldn't I think about Miranda, who actually saved me? What about one of the squaddies who pulled me up from the shuttle in the galactic core?
Liara, of course, has a different reason for it: Being forced on us as the love interest/bestie.
If that's the case, shouldn't I think about Miranda, who actually saved me? What about one of the squaddies who pulled me up from the shuttle in the galactic core?
Liara, of course, has a different reason for it: Being forced on us as the love interest/bestie.
Honestly, who would want to think about Miranda before they die? Kidding I swear, leave the torches and pitchforks at home.
Jokes aside, she was the one that stated that she wanted a control chip put into Shepard. While I can understand thinking about her if Shep loved her, why on earth should Shep remember the woman that wanted to control him/her like a puppet? I'm supposed to feel more attached to her versus the person that went through a lot of effort to get Shep's body back? A few "oh, I'm sorry" lines doesn't make it any better.
You don't have to like Liara just because the ME team stated she was important to the plot. Any perceptions of being forced at this point is on the player, not the ME team. I don't think the ME team is forcing a player have Liara as a love interest either. If you are referring to her "ninjamance," then I wouldn't sweat it with future games. They addressed that with DA2 with the heart icon, and I can see the ME team employing the same system down the road.
The flashback could mean, "Good, I don't have to deal with her anymore." It doesn't have to be taken as a warm and fuzzy moment.
You also don't have to do Liar of the Shadow Broker either. For the most part, the player can ignore her all they like, and their game won't be affected by that.
I didn't think they were "forcing" us to have her as our "bestie" anymore than Garrus was "forced" upon us. YMMV of course, so please don't think I'm giving you a hard time.
Anyway, Garrus treats you like you're his greatest friend even if you're a jackass to him. How is that not "forced" in your eyes? When it comes to Liara recovering the body, it makes the most sense story wise whether one wants to believe it or not. She was really the only one had the means and the resources to know where the remains of the body was to hire Cerebus to recreate Shep. She knows that the only way to stop the Reapers was to get the one person capable to getting the job done back to life.
I'd advise ignoring the EU (where she is pretty prominent) and let the rest of it slide. It'll save you a lot of stress.
Besides, I thought that the "Project Lazarus" excuse was pretty thin to begin with. If anything, I felt forced to work with a group that my Paragon Shep didn't want anything to do with. Because...plot.
There's a big difference from Garrus and T'soni. Garrus doesn't have to be recruited in ME1, can die in ME2 and in ME3 can be ignored the whole game. With Liara she is in cutscenes that are unavoidable in ME3, you have no say if she's squadmate or not in ME1 and in ME2 fortunately can be ignored the whole game though you won't be able to recruit Samara and Thane.
I didn't know Liara hired Cerberus to recreate Shepard? Did I miss something?
There's a big difference from Garrus and T'soni. Garrus doesn't have to be recruited in ME1, can die in ME2 and in ME3 can be ignored the whole game. With Liara she is in cutscenes that are unavoidable in ME3, you have no say if she's squadmate or not in ME1 and in ME2 fortunately can be ignored the whole game though you won't be able to recruit Samara and Thane.
I didn't know Liara hired Cerberus to recreate Shepard? Did I miss something?
That doesn't change the fact that the player can largely ignore her. Just because you can't kill her doesn't mean you have to take her with you. She has a few elements that affects the plot directly in ME1 that a player can choose to be offended by it. Characters that I've disliked in previous BioWare games that have affected the plot I've been happy to ignore outside of that element. Such as the Cleric companion from NWN2.
Anyway, Liar of the Shadow Broker (ME2 DLC) has Liara stating that she was the one that recovered Shep's body and asked Cerebus for help. Another plot element that a player can easily disregard.
Honestly, who would want to think about Miranda before they die? Kidding I swear, leave the torches and pitchforks at home.
Jokes aside, she was the one that stated that she wanted a control chip put into Shepard. While I can understand thinking about her if Shep loved her, why on earth should Shep remember the woman that wanted to control him/her like a puppet? I'm supposed to feel more attached to her versus the person that went through a lot of effort to get Shep's body back? A few "oh, I'm sorry" lines doesn't make it any better.
You don't have to like Liara just because the ME team stated she was important to the plot. Any perceptions of being forced at this point is on the player, not the ME team. I don't think the ME team is forcing a player have Liara as a love interest either. If you are referring to her "ninjamance," then I wouldn't sweat it with future games. They addressed that with DA2 with the heart icon, and I can see the ME team employing the same system down the road.
The flashback could mean, "Good, I don't have to deal with her anymore." It doesn't have to be taken as a warm and fuzzy moment.
You also don't have to do Liar of the Shadow Broker either. For the most part, the player can ignore her all they like, and their game won't be affected by that.
I didn't think they were "forcing" us to have her as our "bestie" anymore than Garrus was "forced" upon us. YMMV of course, so please don't think I'm giving you a hard time.
Anyway, Garrus treats you like you're his greatest friend even if you're a jackass to him. How is that not "forced" in your eyes? When it comes to Liara recovering the body, it makes the most sense story wise whether one wants to believe it or not. She was really the only one had the means and the resources to know where the remains of the body was to hire Cerebus to recreate Shep. She knows that the only way to stop the Reapers was to get the one person capable to getting the job done back to life.
I'd advise ignoring the EU (where she is pretty prominent) and let the rest of it slide. It'll save you a lot of stress.
Besides, I thought that the "Project Lazarus" excuse was pretty thin to begin with. If anything, I felt forced to work with a group that my Paragon Shep didn't want anything to do with. Because...plot.
(I'm using M!Shep pronouns, but this is equally applicable to F!Shep)
Given the choice between Miranda and Liara, I'd go with Miranda. Liara gave them the body, Miranda actually brought me back to life. Hell, I'd think of Wilson before Liara.
Miranda expressing regret meant more to me than Liara, who not only also expressed regret, but pulled my charred armor off of my corpse(ish) and kept it enshrined in her apartment. Good thing I was burned and charred up, who knows what other things she'd take
Actually, Shepard is forced to like Liara. The Genesis comic outright states that, because of the "talented as she is beautiful" Liara, Shepard "gained a great fondness for the asari". In ME2, Shepard will always (no exceptions) give a hug to Liara, even if his interactions with her consisted of telling her to shut up or he'll throw her into a volcano, a forced mind-meld to find Ilos, and forgetting she exists. In ME3, Shepard can comment to Wreav that "On Liara's behalf, I'm offended" if you ask if krogan are ready for war. There's more, but these are the most obvious.
Garrus is forced, but not to the extent Liara is. Forced interactions with Garrus are limited to handshakes, agreeing to work together, and coordinating turian resources after being stationed on the ship by Victus. You are forced to have a professional relationship (that in ME2, you can wittingly end), but with Liara, you're forced to have a personal one. Not only that, you're forced to have one that is positive.
What "resources" did Liara have? It was Cerberus who recovered the body. I've read through the story, and honestly, the whole thing could have been done by Miranda.
(I'm using M!Shep pronouns, but this is equally applicable to F!Shep)
Given the choice between Miranda and Liara, I'd go with Miranda. Liara gave them the body, Miranda actually brought me back to life. Hell, I'd think of Wilson before Liara.
Miranda expressing regret meant more to me than Liara, who not only also expressed regret, but pulled my charred armor off of my corpse(ish) and kept it enshrined in her apartment. Good thing I was burned and charred up, who knows what other things she'd take
Actually, Shepard is forced to like Liara. The Genesis comic outright states that, because of the "talented as she is beautiful" Liara, Shepard "gained a great fondness for the asari". In ME2, Shepard will always (no exceptions) give a hug to Liara, even if his interactions with her consisted of telling her to shut up or he'll throw her into a volcano, a forced mind-meld to find Ilos, and forgetting she exists. In ME3, Shepard can comment to Wreav that "On Liara's behalf, I'm offended" if you ask if krogan are ready for war. There's more, but these are the most obvious.
Garrus is forced, but not to the extent Liara is. Forced interactions with Garrus are limited to handshakes, agreeing to work together, and coordinating turian resources after being stationed on the ship by Victus. You are forced to have a professional relationship (that in ME2, you can wittingly end), but with Liara, you're forced to have a personal one. Not only that, you're forced to have one that is positive.
What "resources" did Liara have? It was Cerberus who recovered the body. I've read through the story, and honestly, the whole thing could have been done by Miranda.
Massively? Is that you?
(I'm using M!Shep pronouns, but this is equally applicable to F!Shep)
Given the choice between Miranda and Liara, I'd go with Miranda. Liara gave them the body, Miranda actually brought me back to life. Hell, I'd think of Wilson before Liara.
Miranda expressing regret meant more to me than Liara, who not only also expressed regret, but pulled my charred armor off of my corpse(ish) and kept it enshrined in her apartment. Good thing I was burned and charred up, who knows what other things she'd take
Actually, Shepard is forced to like Liara. The Genesis comic outright states that, because of the "talented as she is beautiful" Liara, Shepard "gained a great fondness for the asari". In ME2, Shepard will always (no exceptions) give a hug to Liara, even if his interactions with her consisted of telling her to shut up or he'll throw her into a volcano, a forced mind-meld to find Ilos, and forgetting she exists. In ME3, Shepard can comment to Wreav that "On Liara's behalf, I'm offended" if you ask if krogan are ready for war. There's more, but these are the most obvious.
Garrus is forced, but not to the extent Liara is. Forced interactions with Garrus are limited to handshakes, agreeing to work together, and coordinating turian resources after being stationed on the ship by Victus. You are forced to have a professional relationship (that in ME2, you can wittingly end), but with Liara, you're forced to have a personal one. Not only that, you're forced to have one that is positive.
What "resources" did Liara have? It was Cerberus who recovered the body. I've read through the story, and honestly, the whole thing could have been done by Miranda.
<sigh> I say this every time I see someone using the extended universe from a game series for examples like this: The EU can easily be ignored. If you don't like it, then you don't have to accept it out of game.
LotSB flat out states that Liara recovered the body and gave it to Cerbeus. I just played the DLC last week. The Renegade option doesn't have you "hug her no matter what." I've checked that out on youtube and unless you have a link to prove me wrong, I think you're mistaken.
As far as Wreave goes, I was a paragon shep and never once have I seen that line. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I do wonder when the last time you played the series was. You can also take it as, "She could destroy you, so play nice." There is a lot of ways something like that could be taken.
Liara was known as a very good information broker, and she could have used those contacts to find Shepard's remains. Also, it helps that she did know exactly what planet's orbit the Normandy wrecked. Sure, so did the others, but the rest had given up Shep for dead. I can't see any of the squadmates having so much free time as to recover Shep's body. As an information broker, Liara has more time to manuver and find out details. Hell, they probably would have dismissed the thought of Shep's resurrection altogether. Which is the logical thing to do, but logic started to fly away the minute the writers decided that killing off Shep to make him/her work with a terrorist group that they might hate was a great way to start ME2.
Miranda never really gave a crap about Shepard until much later. She didn't even know about the Project at first. They brought her on board after the recovery is made and she ended up taking over the project.
Sorry, but after playing the games, I can't see Liara forced upon the player anymore than Garrus was. I still enjoy both characters. I still say that Liara is easily ignored and put on Team Benchwarmer. Of course others might see it differently than I, which is fine. However, after a few years and an upcoming sequel, it's time to let that go. If you feel like the ME team has been forcing companions upon you, let them know in the Feedback thread. Otherwise, just let it slide and move on.
Liara was known as a very good information broker, and she could have used those contacts to find Shepard's remains. Also, it helps that she did know exactly what planet's orbit the Normandy wrecked. Sure, so did the others, but the rest had given up Shep for dead. I can't see any of the squadmates having so much free time as to recover Shep's body. As an information broker, Liara has more time to manuver and find out details. Hell, they probably would have dismissed the thought of Shep's resurrection altogether. Which is the logical thing to do, but logic started to fly away the minute the writers decided that killing off Shep to make him/her work with a terrorist group that they might hate was a great way to start ME2.
Didn't T'soni become an information broker after Shepard's body was given to Cerberus? What contacts did she have to find the body? Wasn't it Feron that led T'soni to Shepards corpse?
<sigh> I say this every time I see someone using the extended universe from a game series for examples like this: The EU can easily be ignored. If you don't like it, then you don't have to accept it out of game.
LotSB flat out states that Liara recovered the body and gave it to Cerbeus. I just played the DLC last week.
As far as Wreave goes, I was a paragon shep and never once have I seen that line. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I do wonder when the last time you played the series was. You can also take it as, "She could destroy you, so play nice." There is a lot of ways something like that could be taken.
Liara was known as a very good information broker, and she could have used those contacts to find Shepard's remains. Also, it helps that she did know exactly what planet's orbit the Normandy wrecked. Sure, so did the others, but the rest had given up Shep for dead. I can't see any of the squadmates having so much free time as to recover Shep's body. As an information broker, Liara has more time to manuver and find out details. Hell, they probably would have dismissed the thought of Shep's resurrection altogether. Which is the logical thing to do, but logic started to fly away the minute the writers decided that killing off Shep to make him/her work with a terrorist group that they might hate was a great way to start ME2.
Miranda never really gave a crap about Shepard until much later. She didn't even know about the Project at first. They brought her on board after the recovery is made and she ended up taking over the project.
Sorry, but after playing the games, I can't see Liara forced upon the player anymore than Garrus was. I still enjoy both characters. I still say that Liara is easily ignored and put on Team Benchwarmer. Of course others might see it differently than I, which is fine. However, after a few years and an upcoming sequel, it's time to let that go. If you feel like the ME team has been forcing companions upon you, let them know in the Feedback thread. Otherwise, just let it slide and move on.
What Renegade option are you talking about? I literally have no idea. I'm referring to when you first meet her on Illium in ME2. She echoes the line from her mother, sees Shepard, and they hug. No Paragon or Renegade choice, she just has to be hugged.
When I did the line, I had a Paragon Shepard on Sur'Kesh. The last time I played the game was last week. I encourage you not to take Liara to Sur'Kesh and see for yourself. There is no way that "On Liara's behalf, I'm offended" can be taken the way you describe. It a shoehorn that Shepard cares what others think about Liara and the asari.
Liara was not an information broker at the end of ME1, she became one after that.
Miranda didn't care about Shepard before she knew him, true. What does that change? Miranda still brought him back to life, and served a life-or-death suicide mission by his side. It's more than Liara did.
These complaints are really silly (and hypocritical). I got Eve as a flashback in one of my endings, a minor character who only appears in ME3 during the Tuchanka arc. She was certainly NOT one of the most important persons in (my) Shepards life. As far as I know all destroyers see EDI in the middle flashback...and I can guarantee you that not everyone cares about EDI that much. And what about Joker or Anderson?
What complaints are silly?
In the middle flashback, depending on your playthrough, edi will not always be in it. I've had Wrex, Thane, Liara and Ashley. And I always pick destroy. If Liara is killed on the beam run she will always be in the mddle flashback unless she's a love interest.
I would be curious to know what playthrough you did that has Eve in the flashback. The only time I see her is during the destroy epilogue.
As far as Wreave goes, I was a paragon shep and never once have I seen that line. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I do wonder when the last time you played the series was. You can also take it as, "She could destroy you, so play nice." There is a lot of ways something like that could be taken.
Sorry, but after playing the games, I can't see Liara forced upon the player anymore than Garrus was. I still enjoy both characters. I still say that Liara is easily ignored and put on Team Benchwarmer. Of course others might see it differently than I, which is fine. However, after a few years and an upcoming sequel, it's time to let that go. If you feel like the ME team has been forcing companions upon you, let them know in the Feedback thread. Otherwise, just let it slide and move on.
If you have Wreav in ME3 and talk to him on Sur'kesh without Liara present, Shepard will say "On behalf of Liara, I'm offended
Squadmates even speak for Liara on her behalf http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Z1uC3sGKX7k 6:30. I wasn't able to find one with Shepard saying the line above. She/he does regardless if paragon or renegade. Its one of those auto-dialogue things that the player has no control over. Since I heard that comment I avoid talking with Wreav if Wrex is not in ME3
The only time Garrus is forced upon the player is in ME2 as a squadmate and in ME3 as a squadmate(if alive) and after the genophage is cured/sabotage in a cutscene with Victus. He is no where near forced as much as LIara is forced on the player
How do you want the game to pick flashbacks to please every player? The love interest is a safe pick. And the rest? I couldn't care less about Miranda and Joker. I was probably moved most by Anderson's death. But the game doesn't know this, of course.
I agree that Liara is forced on your squad a few times. But Garrus is forced to be your best friend. There are several opportunities for Shepard to be rude to Liara, who at least got her own mind. I still like both characters.
How do you want the game to pick flashbacks to please every player? The love interest is a safe pick. And the rest? I couldn't care less about Miranda and Joker. I was probably moved most by Anderson's death. But the game doesn't know this, of course.
I agree that Liara is forced on your squad a few times. But Garrus is forced to be your best friend. There are several opportunities for Shepard to be rude to Liara, who at least got her own mind. I still like both characters.
No one is disputing the LI, and very few are disputing Anderson. His death would be on the Shepard's mind, if for no other reason, than the fact that it just happened.
The problem is the 2nd one. I understand choosing someone who has died, but why must it be Liara (first choice), if she died. It's only because BioWARE forced her as our best friend, so Shepard *MUST* feel bad simply because it's Liara
Garrus wasn't forced to be your bestie, at least not as much as Liara. He'll only talk to you if you talk to him, the forced interactions are professional. By contrast, ME2 will always have a Liara hug, and M!Shep will always have this creept "Li-are-a" greeting on Mars. And, of course, the Wreav thing on Sur'Kesh
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