413 réponses à ce sujet

[myahele]

I am just hoping for a time skip. Like atleast 100 years or so.

But still, unless its gonna take place in another universe. Or even an isolated galaxy that lost contact early on and have forgotten. Maybe they weren't even affected by the decision?

Still, I don't think they'll make a trilogy focusing on just 1 person anymore.

Maybe they'll pull a dragon age and have each protag be different and take place in different parts of the world?

[Manc4life7]

Not as mad as I'm going to be if the devs do something cowardly like run to a new galaxy, when the original ME trilogy barely explored the Milky Way.

[naddaya]

I'm probably one of the few that wouldn't be pissed if they took IT and made it canon. Of corse they won't, but I wouldn't complain

[Iakus]

I'm probably one of the few that wouldn't be pissed if they took IT and made it canon. Of corse they won't, but I wouldn't complain

There are far worse directions they could go in.

[Dale]

I think the better question might be, "How mad will you be if Mass Effect 4 doesn't retcon the ending of ME3?"

 

Yes Durasteel, the title of this thread looks to me like a carefully crafted Bioware marketing feedback question  -  asked in REVERSE to CTA and attempt to reclaim their $$$ customers.  Really!  Who's footing the BILL to fund this forum anyway?

 

In ME1 (ending) Shep comes running into the scene, talks with Udina & Anderson & rides off into the sunset.

 

ME2 begins showing Shep being shot out of the sky and killed with an interesting story of resurrection, assembling the dirty dozen & just plain FUN to play….with some facsimile of success (not defeat) – though some can easily do that.   There's no shortage of Bioware brilliance from start to finish (though you'll hear endless griping on this forum about ME2).

 

In ME3 -- well the ending is up for heated debate  -- which I won't go into because it would be [ridiculously] redundant. IMO, Bioware simply quit.  In business language, that's "time to market".

 

Seems like what's happening in the ME3 game story is occurring here in the forum.   You have a MAJORITY of pissed off folks who have played & moved on (as I will next week).  Then you have a SMALLER splinter cell group that permanently camps out, tells the rest of us to "shut up & quit whining", and defend the status quo.  Javik's "expression" on this matter cannot be improved upon.

 

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out Bioware wants to start a NEW Mass Effect with new crew, ship, story, etc -- so the logical solution is to "kill them off" with an Alfred Hitchcock ending.  Dang!  I just gave away my age!

 

There is no SHORTAGE of great ideas to honorably salvage the ME3 ending and proceed in that [new] direction.   Perhaps Bioware has already planned this from the start of ME4 and intends to surprise us -- but underestimated the effect on the majority of their $$$ customers.  

 

I purchased some dozen+ DLCs for ME3.   I won't make the same mistake again.  In a year (or 2) I'll check the forums here and see what some of you still think.

[GamesMaxed]

Just make the IT cannon and we'll be happy.

[Ctoagu]

Just make the IT cannon and we'll be happy.

 

We? You can really only speak for yourself on this matter, because I gave up on that theory a long time ago. And anyway, it's far too late to go with Indoctrination Theory now - I'd bet that taking such a route will just result in another widespread shitstorm.

 

No, far better to just put a lid on the whole Reaper business and move on to greener pastures.

[The Twilight God]

The Leviathans were the ones who built the Catalyst, and I'm fairly sure the Citadel; since the device seems directly hooked into the Catalyst, it seems rather unlikely and convoluted that the Reapers built it as opposed to the Leviathans. Given the Leviathans' mania for control, I actually would consider most likely that the Catalyst's personality imprint was that of a lifelong and loyal thrall uploaded into the AI computer network; such a setup would also possibly make the most sense for a being supposed to create permanent peace between synthetic and organic.

The Catalyst is the Citadel. The Leviathans did not create the Citadel (i.e. the Catalyst) or even the mass relays. That was developed after the Intelligence betrayed them. There is no way to even know if the Kid is the Intelligence or just Harbinger or any random reaper in Shepard's head. We do know two thing: 1.) the fact that it took the boys image tells us the Reapers are in his head. 2.) Mass Effect 1 could not exist if there was a master AI on the Citadel.

View the Leviathan conversation on YouTube. You're understanding of the lore is heavily flawed.
 

The point being that the Reapers not only want to upload all the minds they can into new Reapers, they want to remove the possibility of robot wars that might wipe out all organic life permanently.

Which they can do when it reaches that point.

But even the most basic logic dictate you absorb only the AIs and not kill the organics. Under no circumstance can whipping out everything be the best solution.
 
 

That was not the objective. The objective was to make peace between organics and synthetics so the Leviathans would stop having their tribute interrupted. And apparently just trying to stop synthetics from being built didn't work, otherwise the Leviathans wouldn't have built the Catalyst to figure out a lasting solution; why it didn't work is another question altogether, but it's possible that the Leviathans simply couldn't control enough of the galaxy directly.

So you admit Control is bogus?
 
 

I think it's because the Catalyst is either shackled, or the thrall who was used in its creation is so conditioned that it operates the same way. The way it makes the most sense to me is that the Leviathans tried the space patrol route once and it failed; either that, or they just didn't want to expend any effort keeping it up. Either way, they made the Catalyst and ensured that it could only have one mandate: to create lasting peace between organics and synthetics. As for why it uses the Reapers to harvest the various cycles, I think it's clearing out each cycle so that the next cycle will be different and might have the characteristics that would ultimately lead to lasting peace. Either way, Shepard doesn't have the same shackles, and the Catalyst has realized that its stopgap will no longer work in the future, so it offers Shepard the chance of doing what she will.

Don't just make stuff up without supporting evidence or, like in this case, in spite of conflicting evidence. If the Intelligence was shackled the Leviathans would still be kings of the mountain. There is no shackle and if any AI is in a position to have been shackled it's the new Shepard AI because the Reapers are the ones who made it.

There is nothing in the Reaper's actions to suggest them even being open to the possibility of "the next cycle" being different. The Kid repeats the inevitability of "chaos". They never expect the cycle to end or the Kid's whole diatribe was a lie. Again, the Kid is not the Citadel. The Citadel is the Catalyst. We don't even know if it is the Intelligence. The Intelligence could still be causing trouble in ME4.
 
 
 

"Catalyst" was not a term invented by the Protheans; it turned up far earlier in the line of the cycles who tried to build the Crucible. Presumably the term was coined by those who first tried to interface the Crucible with the Citadel; the Catalyst seems to know of them, and something happened there that would have taken too long to explain (which is something, considering how long the Catalyst speaks). It may have changed its name from "Intelligence" to "Catalyst" during that time period, but we can't really know.

Point me to the clip where the term "Catalyst" is used by pre-protheans (should be difficult seeing as we never see any pre=prothean texts or dialog). It is the codename for a object known to the Crucible's prothean designers. That known object was the Citadel. The initial designs did not even make use of the citadel. Again, your knowledge of the lore is faulty at best.
 

What we can know is that everything in the EC blatantly disproves indoctrination.

Nothing in the EC disproves indoctrination. In fact, it strengthens the case.

For your theory to be correct, Bioware would not only have to be far more brilliant and subtle than they've ever demonstrated themselves to be (including spreading false rumors about the closed nature of the ending's writing),

They said a lot of things about the endings that were blatant lies. Try again.

but they'd have to utterly squander it by lying to fans for years on end, tainting their brand identity for a false flag ending that hasn't had any payoff for over two years now. Do you think EA would ever allow that?

What has been squandered? People got indoctrinated and stayed indoctrinated after the credits rolled. If Bioware cared so much about their "good name" that original RGB ending would never have made the final cut. And if it did they would have redone the endings entirely. They didn't seem to care what anyone thought.

I think you overestimate EA's involvement. I could just as easily say EA would not have allowed the original RGB endings. That was the most horrid thing ever and EA "allowed" it. As if a bunch of execs are going to write the ending?

Do you think that Bioware would willingly tar themselves with the hatred of fans for a scheme this bizarre? Who could possibly gain from it? Certainly not the vast majority of the game's target audience; hell, any game's target audience.

Yes, the tarred themselves with the hatred of fans with the endings just they way they are perceived now.

[AlanC9]

TTG! Welcome back. Have you signed on with IT, or are you still pushing Deception Theory? Or has Deception Theory gone back to being a flavor of IT? I have about as much trouble sorting this out as I have distinguishing Alawites from garden-variety Shiites.

[DeathScepter]

IT is canon and bioware should retcon Me3 and just remake Kotor 1 and ask EA to let Obisdian remake Kotor 2. and Then both of them make Kotor 3.  then somehow many fans end up in hula shirts and in Kotor trilogy

[Pateu]

OP should've just titled the thread "I'm still mad about ME3".

 

Take care you don't want to cut  yourself on that edge.

 

I loved ME3.

[Pateu]

I'm probably one of the few that wouldn't be pissed if they took IT and made it canon. Of corse they won't, but I wouldn't complain

 

The IT is the best ending out of the 4 ( 5 with rejection ) since it eliminates the stupidity of the star kid, TIM being on the Citadel for no reason at all and managing to control Shepard and the colored beams.

 

The Crucible should just be a massive EMP that fucks up the Reapers and that's it.

[AlanC9]

The IT is the best ending out of the 4 ( 5 with rejection ) since it eliminates the stupidity of the star kid, TIM being on the Citadel for no reason at all and managing to control Shepard and the colored beams.

Of course, this would leave the Reapers making even less sense than they do now. But I presume you're OK with that.

[merikano]

Hmm...

 

This is a wild eyed idea but how about the one where Shep shoots the "kid" and what ends up happening is we end up playing as something similar to what happened with Javik. A couple of human refuges who make it to another galaxy while the Reapers continue with their cycle back in the Milky Way?

 

I don't see this happening (unless BW wants to incorporate some sort of timetravel or alternate universe type deal) but for sake of argument at least it is different than the three other outcomes.

[Iakus]

Of course, this would leave the Reapers making even less sense than they do now. But I presume you're OK with that.

 

Well, you can't get much less than "no sense at all" so...

[spirosz]

The Crucible should just be a massive EMP that fucks up the Reapers and that's it.

 

That sounds worse than what the writers wrote. 

[Iakus]

That sounds worse than what the writers wrote. 

 

Not really.  It's still space magic.  Just a different kind.  At at least has the benefit of not pulling a  "But the FEELZ!"

[AlanC9]

Well, you can't get much less than "no sense at all" so...

Don't be silly. A bad reason is still more of a reason than no reason at all.

[spirosz]

Not really.  It's still space magic.  Just a different kind.  At at least has the benefit of not pulling a  "But the FEELZ!"

 

So why get mad at the writers if they decide to use their space magic?  Most fan-endings are "space magic" to the highest degree, with a sprinkle of "the feelz".  

[crashsuit]

Take care you don't want to cut yourself on that edge.

I loved ME3.

Me too. I was commenting on the thread, not ME3.

[Iakus]

Don't be silly. A bad reason is still more of a reason than no reason at all.

Actually, I believe a bad reason can be, and often is, worse than no reason at all.

 

But IT has the advantage of being upfront with "It doesn't make sense because Shepard's brain is being messed with"

 

 

So why get mad at the writers if they decide to use their space magic?  Most fan-endings are "space magic" to the highest degree, with a sprinkle of "the feelz".  

 

Because they used space magic to force dark, tragic endings on even the most-prepared Shepard.  Dark endings are harder to make appealing than brighter ones.  And they had the audacity to think they could force darkness on everyone.

[Slayer299]

@Gamesmaxed - Not everyone believes in, likes or would even consider being distantly in relation to that *ahem*, "theory", much less the idea of it being made canon or that everyone would be happy about said "theory". btw, I don't wish to be shot by your cannon, point it in another direction. 

[Pateu]

That sounds worse than what the writers wrote. 

 

How?

 

It's a device that hits the Reapers only, improved over countless cycles that were burned by them.

 

It's not space magic, it's simply a giant EMP.

[spirosz]

 

Because they used space magic to force dark, tragic endings on even the most-prepared Shepard.  Dark endings are harder to make appealing than brighter ones.  And they had the audacity to think they could force darkness on everyone.

 

They can force whatever they want into THEIR game or are you a writer for the team? 

[xAmilli0n]

Because they used space magic to force dark, tragic endings on even the most-prepared Shepard.  Dark endings are harder to make appealing than brighter ones.  And they had the audacity to think they could force darkness on everyone.

 

Its their game, they can do what they want.  They owe the player nothing.