And that's the subjective point half the arguments on this forum are circling around these past two weeks.
What would your reaction be if Shepard was simply dreaming or was mind assaulted by Harbinger and it turns out the only real ending was Destroy?
I pick Destroy anyway so it would not change a thing for me.
I would be relieved if they retconned the endings into something else, even if it just negated Starchild's existence altogether and the crucible just disabled the Reapers so the armada could destroy them with ease. (Not need to kill the Geth, EDI, potentially kill people with tech in their brains or tech that helps them move and otherwise function etc)
If however they were to pick an ending as canon, I would prefer they pick control. I liked the concept of it, the arc it left Shepard with as being the guardian of the galaxy, its "shepherd." The hero who ascends to something greater for the good of all, etc.
But I'm all but certain they will go with destroy because of course they will, the default choices if you didn't play ME1 were renegade ones.
I don't expect a retcon.
I do wonder about a minimization, or transformation of what we saw and what choices we made.
I raise my hand up in support of a retcon.
But... its not going to happen. After all the real hurt for ME3's ending, Bioware stuck to their guns and didn't completely change the ending.... and they won't do it now or in the future.
I'm cool with whatever they decide to do. I love the games.
Bioware will simply move the action away from the known part of the galaxy to an unknown one. And not much from the previous trilogy will matter. Including endings and their consequences.
a new game should have a new ending if mass effect 4 turned out to be just another rehash of mass effect 1-3 then i would not buy it and just keep playing mass effect 1-3 on my PS3
Let's just say:
Destruction = well nothing to say Reapers are dead
Control = Reapers are gone
Synethis = synthesis failed it was an utopia
And now you make your ME4 without a problem ^^
The problem is that they shoot themselves in the foot with the Extended Cut dlc. Shepard went all Intergalactic Dictator on their ass and Synthesis shows us cute green newborn Krogan. Genius writers. ;p
Destroy ending for canon please. I don't trust these guys enough to let them play with the fragile toys.
If they did make a game post ME3 then I wouldn't mind if the game ignored ME3's ending. It would have too in some way anyway.
In my humble opinion, a direct sequel in the same universe is lunacy. Not only would it be impossible to preserve everyone's choices in any sort of satisfactory manner (and recall how pissed people were in ME3 about choices not mattering), the story is over. Nothing's going to top the Reapers, nor should it. Love it or hate it, but let the galaxy rest; it's earned it. New tales can be told in a universe designed for them, not used as an artificial expansion pack to a story already told.
IT is the most complicated/complex coping mechanism I have ever seen
This is exactly how I feel about IT.
Yeah, destroy is the only viable ending. It's the only one that allows for a continuation of the story:
Fight your new synthetic overlords.
I thought they made a point of not showing EDI with the destroy end. Shepard and Quarians can live to tell the tale but seems like AIs can't survive. Personally I'd be happy if they retcon the destruction end to not bother with other AIs. This way it can be something like the Human Revolution ending. You influence how much of a technological leap you want to "impose" to the galaxy.
After all you already have a choice to kill the geth, you don't really need a second.
Using Destroy as the official ending wouldn't be a retcon. A retcon would involve a completely different outcome from any ending.
Destroy is the only viable ending. Both Synthesis and Control amount to the Reapers winning. Synthesis effectively amounts to the end of organic life as we know it. Everyone essentially becoming a galactic diffused Reaper. If Control was viable the Reaper Wars would never have occurred in the first place. This can be objectively demonstrated. There is no rational means to move forward with Synthesis or Control without making a complete mockery of the franchise. Only Destroy can be construed as any sort of victory or allow for a continuation of galactic society in which a player could believably be a part of.
As far as Geth are concerned at no point is it ever stated that the Geth were destroyed post Extended Cut. The very notion is a pre EC sentiment. It is simply stated that synthetics, clarified to mean "technology you rely on" would be "effected". The "effect" is never elaborated upon by the "Kid". The High EMS Destroy ending itself proves this effect was minimal to non-existent as technology was working fine afterwards. Bioware is free to include or leave out the Geth. Which is probably why they retconned the Kid's dialog.
However, they are going to have to chose certain events as canon. Even if they were to go with Destroy they have to chose what events transpired and in what ways; The Quarian/Geth outcome, the Krogan's fate, the Rachni fate, etc.
This despite the fact that both Control and Synthesis show galactic society continuing? In Control, it's almost the same as in Destroy (with the geth still being alive), and in Synthesis, it doesn't seem like so much has changed that the world became wholly alien. Also, Destroy killing EDI is canon, and the geth are extremely conspicuous by their absence; why, after all, would they survive if EDI did not?
And, of course, placing your own ending on a pedestal and claiming that it's the only viable ending and that no future could come from any other is rather like my saying that Liara is the only viable LI and that everyone else is a pale shadow of her who shouldn't be acknowledged in future games; it's unnecessary, exclusionary jerkiness.
In my humble opinion, a direct sequel in the same universe is lunacy. Not only would it be impossible to preserve everyone's choices in any sort of satisfactory manner (and recall how pissed people were in ME3 about choices not mattering), the story is over. Nothing's going to top the Reapers, nor should it. Love it or hate it, but let the galaxy rest; it's earned it. New tales can be told in a universe designed for them, not used as an artificial expansion pack to a story already told.
I agree with this.
Leave the Mass Effect trilogy behind (preferably in an unmarked grave in the desert) and tell a new story. One that doesn't carry any baggage.
I thought they made a point of not showing EDI with the destroy end. Shepard and Quarians can live to tell the tale but seems like AIs can't survive. Personally I'd be happy if they retcon the destruction end to not bother with other AIs. This way it can be something like the Human Revolution ending. You influence how much of a technological leap you want to "impose" to the galaxy.
After all you already have a choice to kill the geth, you don't really need a second.
This despite the fact that both Control and Synthesis show galactic society continuing? In Control, it's almost the same as in Destroy (with the geth still being alive), and in Synthesis, it doesn't seem like so much has changed that the world became wholly alien. Also, Destroy killing EDI is canon, and the geth are extremely conspicuous by their absence; why, after all, would they survive if EDI did not?
And, of course, placing your own ending on a pedestal and claiming that it's the only viable ending and that no future could come from any other is rather like my saying that Liara is the only viable LI and that everyone else is a pale shadow of her who shouldn't be acknowledged in future games; it's unnecessary, exclusionary jerkiness.
EDI is made from parts of Sovereign. She isn't just some random piece of tech (i.e. the Reaper material). Any Geth platform is just a random piece of tech that is not defined by any particular technology, material, etc. A Geth's physical body can be various things. Patrick Weekes himself stated that the reason EDI died was because she was made from actual parts of Sovereign. Her living while the Reapers die made no sense to the writers. I don't really want to go into this in too much detail here, but note that synthesized (machine/organic hybrid) material disintegrated. Nothing else. The husks and presumably the actual reapers within the dreadnaughts. Remember, the "cuttlefish" ships are not the actual Reapers themselves, but the giant synthesized "terminator" inside. High EMS Destroy appears to only effect synthesized matter. Hence the weapon was specifically designed to seek out Reaper objects. Otherwise, it should have been like low EMS and wiped out everything indiscriminately.
At no point is it ever stated that the Crucible targets AIs. Again, this is pre EC sentiment which was retconned. People seem unable to let go of it. Probably because without that downside they are forced to critically evaluate Synthesis and Control beyond a mere emotional aversion to sacrificing the Geth.
EDI evolved from luna base VI with additional reaper tech engineering. That sounds to me like "random tech" with reaper upgrades. EDI isn't a hybrid. She is a quantum blue box AI as per ME2.
Sounds like what the Geth become. Random tech with reaper upgrades.
If the ME3 retcons what EDI is or if ME2 description is misleading, then ok sure, I can live with your explanation, but sounds fishy to me.
I can objectively demonstrate the inherent failure of both Synthesis and Control in regards to the indefinite continuation of galactic civilization as we know it. I've gone into great detail in my Deception Theory thread. I don't like any of the endings. Destroy is not loved by me and I would never choose it as "my ending". It is simply the only viable ending given the assumption of a non-reaper enemy. So don't strawman this into a "placing your own ending on a pedestal" argument. That path skirts dangerously close to personal attack as opposed to a critical evaluation of the presented argument.
The issue with Control is that the Reapers pushed for this in The Illusive Man. He was indoctrinated and this is what he, and therefore the Reapers, wanted. If Control was viable the Reapers would have simply policed the galaxy instead of exterminating organic life. They have millions or billions of years experience and untold cognitive power, but a sole human of 30 odd years is going to figure out what they could not? It's absurd. Policing the Galaxy was actually the Reaper's original mandate; To keep the organic thralls alive and in check was the Leviathan's intent. The Reapers could not facilitate this. Hence the Cycles as a solution. The only outcome of Control is the return of the Cycles down the line. There are other details that are too numerous to post here, but everything about the ending points to Shepard being changed in the transformation from organic to synthetic intelligence.
So the series could continue post Control... BUT!!! Control could work assuming Mass Effect 4 heralds the return to the Cycles. BUT!!!... haven't they said this will be an entirely new threat?
Synthesis shows a lot of things. I don't want to get into all the details, but for synthesis to work the fundamental qualities of what makes organics organic, the very reasons the Reapers claim to do what they do, must be curtailed. A purely physiological alteration will not solve that problem. And let's face it, the physical changes are minor at best. Furthermore, the mannerisms of the people depicted demonstrate a psychological change. Their behavior compared to other endings, their smiles and whatnot show a people too docile toward the beings who just ravaged them. Any player character in such a universe could not function at the behest of the player. You would be, in essence, a reaper program. Part of that synthetic hive mind. It would not make sense for you to have choices. I hope you understand what I'm getting at. Furthermore, if everyone makes up this intergalactic Reaper or these interplanetary diffused Reapers how can conflict exist?
So that's why the Reapers turned on Cerberus when they found out how to control them.
The issue with Control is that the Reapers pushed for this in The Illusive Man. He was indoctrinated and this is what he, and therefore the Reapers, wanted. If Control was viable the Reapers would have simply policed the galaxy instead of exterminating organic life. They have millions or billions of years experience and untold cognitive power, but a sole human of 30 odd years is going to figure out what they could not? It's absurd. Policing the Galaxy was actually the Reaper's original mandate; To keep the organic thralls alive and in check was the Leviathan's intent. The Reapers could not facilitate this. Hence the Cycles as a solution. The only outcome of Control is the return of the Cycles down the line. There are other details that are too numerous to post here, but everything about the ending points to Shepard being changed in the transformation from organic to synthetic intelligence.
The catalyst states that "the solution won't work any more". That means that what happens in ME3 is a game changer. No point in going back to the cycles.
If the intelligence admits it was wrong why it would go back to do the same thing. But well, that's a trend in ME, reapers are idiots and their logic is flawed. Suppose A and B. If not A then B. Simple. His A won't work, so he needs to B. If shepard doesn't choose B, it goes back to A. What's that, AI's definition of madness? Doing the same thing and expecting different results? Or a billion year old AI with untold cognitive functions is supposed to argue like a 8 year old?
You just assume that some things are more important than others. If the catalyst is supposed to be a being of untold cognitive functions, then everything that it says and does has to be taken into account.
What the catalyst does is
-It summons Shepard into his home when he clearly has lost the ability to influence the situation any more. He falls unconscious while the reapers decimate the fleet.
-It wakes him up and tells him that what's done is done but now it's solution won't work any more.
-Then it gives him FREE reign to do what he wants. It allows Shepard to kill it. The only reason for it to do that is because it thinks Shepard is better equipped to make this decision.
You claim that the last part is absurd. If you think that reapers are so much more advanced and all knowing then you have to accept that Shepard is THE ONLY BEING in the current world that has the ability to make the right decision because they said so.
EDI evolved from luna base VI with additional reaper tech engineering. That sounds to me like "random tech" with reaper upgrades. EDI isn't a hybrid. She is a quantum blue box AI as per ME2.
Sounds like what the Geth become. Random tech with reaper upgrades.
If the ME3 retcons what EDI is or if ME2 description is misleading, then ok sure, I can live with your explanation, but sounds fishy to me.
A pulse that only destroys certain tech is already pretty iffy.
I mean, can you create an EMP that will only fry Android software, and leave everything else alone, but will reach any and all such units, no matter where they run and hide?
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