253 réponses à ce sujet

[Vamp44]

Miranda is for my Shep.

Modifié par Vamp44, 24 janvier 2010 - 12:54 .

[khawaja07]

its just my thinking that miranda has a more personality to her as a woman than ashley coz she is being used but my shep can be different to her ..so hopefully i can have better consequences..i'll be like close to a lover with her so that she can have full faith in me and be pretty usefull come the climax of the game so miranda for me...

[Sledgehammer44mm]

Miranda... as much as I like Ashley, I'm sorry but Miranda FTW!!!!

[FarGears]

ASH FTW!!!

[SGCONeill]

Decisions, decisions. I'm tempted to go for Miranda. But Ashley was the one I picked. To betray or not to betray my first lover? That is the question.

[Grand Rider]

Arijharn wrote...

Grand Rider wrote...

Cascadus wrote...

I hated Ashley, and I would of gotten rid of her as soon as I could were it not for the fact I needed to ditch Kaiden first. So, I went with the other option and broke her heart choosing Liara over her.
Also, I don't really get all these assumptions that Miranda is completely fanatical about her cause in Cerberus. I don't get it. Did BioWare mention this somewhere? Does working with Cerberus instantly mean = evil? You can argue very easily that Cerberus isn't even that evil, they just have different priorities. I seriously don't get all this 'because Miranda is completely indulged into her cause' stuff. She works for Cerberus, yes. But she's also bitter from being used all her life, so I'd assume she doesn't have the most heartwarming feelings towards Cerberus.

Oh I can see it now…
 
*Somewhere on Therum*

Cascadus: “I should have known the Citadel Council were plotting to take over!”

Grand Rider: “Cascadus, Cerberus is evil!”

Cascaudus: “From my point of view the Citadel Council is evil!”

Grand Rider: “THEN YOU ARE LOST!!!”

ROFL!

Seriously though; while Cerberus’ goal to elevate humanity to a position of security and strength has merit, their methods on the other hand are far from noble. From their secret labs that conduct unethical research to their involvement in manipulating the political landscape and even endangering and outright destroying the lives of the very people they claim to serve through exposing them to hazardous materials (read Mass Effect Ascension).

It’s one thing to find Miranda attractive but let’s get one thing straight: Cerberus are the bad guys. And Miranda is a card carrying “loyalist” (see her “Fight for the lost” clip on the official site to fully understand the reference).

While we may discover that she enjoys long walks by the beach, has a puppy and enjoys knitting in her spare time she’s still not adverse to the way that Cerberus conducts itself. Thus by association; how could there be any doubt of her or her organisations’ place on the moral spectrum?

To make an omellete you have to break a few eggs. Seriously though, this debate has raged on forever and considering that there is no way to make biotics short of ezero exposure, what's the alternative? Any combat action against Biotics whilst your side without would surely be a mistake due to the control biotics represent.

Have you considered that perhaps Cerberus has to work in the dark because they wouldn't be allowed to be in the light? Can you imagine what progress they'd make by 'calling for volunteers?' Much like today's temperament Cerberus would be crucified if it's activities became known to the galaxy at large, their successes would be marginalized because of people with the air of self-righteousness.

I agree, they are at best, morally grey but I also believe that they are needed and that they are what they are forced to be. I don't see them as bad however, truth to be told, I feel that as all too dismissive. Hopefully, Bioware will challenge both of our positions throughout the course of the game however.

OT however, Miranda does show hints of being a very complex character (plus she's Yvonne Strahovski) and Ash was kinda... boring to be honest (although on the playthroughs where I didn't kill her, I always romanced her since I find romance to Liara, an alien... perverse in a sense)

We’re dealing with people’s lives here. I believe that the cost to make a biotic is just too high and unethical. For every human biotic that we encounter around eighty to ninety other children (if we only count the babies in utero) were exposed for nothing and a significant amount of them would’ve developed terminal cancer for their trouble during their infancy…that can’t be right.
 
So many innocent lives, cut short in such a terrible way with many more affected as a result, and who’s to say that the ten or so biotics that they were involuntary sacrificed to create would have developed any sort of permanent and meaningful power? Then there’s the severe complications that arose in the generation that was fitted with the L2 implants; coming out of the process virtually unscathed would be like winning the lottery twice over or akin to Russian roulette.
 
Granted, the implant procedure has improved significantly since the L2s but the chances of making it that far are still terribly slim.
 
Any organisation that would willingly sanction the creation of biotics, knowing full well those odds, is evil in my opinion and should be made to answer for their crimes against humanity with extreme prejudice.
 
Cerberus conducts these procedures clandestinely because they know that the leaders of humanity would never condone (at least not openly) the risks involved to their populace, nor would the people themselves tolerate such legislation and both parties would vehemently crackdown on the perpetrators of eezo exposure if their identities were to come to light.
 
The “tactical advantage” just isn’t worth the risk, it’s tantamount to butchery. Yet Cerberus’ willingness to proceed regardless only demonstrates their ruthless and despicable megalomaniacal nature.

If Miranda could willingly be a part of such a callous group then I'd want nothing to do with her, regardless of her "depth", because I'd know that at her core she's rotten.

Modifié par Grand Rider, 24 janvier 2010 - 04:19 .

[braddoc88]

Main shep will stick with Ashley, my 2nd play through will probably go with Miranda.

[shinobi602]

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

Easy choice. Miranda obviously.

Ashley: Religious,

Ermm, so you dislike somebody because they're religious? Makes perfect sense! 

[Cascadus]

You misunderstand me. I hate Cerberus, and all it stands for. I hate them the same reason I hated Terra Firma and told the dude who asked me to represent them to stick it. I saved the Council because I disliked the idea of humans running the whole show. I'm just saying that by all technicality, they don't consider themselves evil, again, their priorities are different. Theirs entails humans coming out on top. And, well, at the very least, Cerberus is doing something about the disappearing human colonies, while the Systems Alliance and the Council would rather prefer to turn a blind-eye.
And have you read the books? Let's take Paul Grayson for example. He was a long time Cerberus operative, though he was still a good person by nature, and in the end, stuck it to Cerberus, helped Gillian escape from the situation at hand and screwed with the Illusive Man and got away with it.
Besides, why don't even know if Miranda really even chose to be part of Cerberus. It sounds like her father was part of the organization and basically genetically modified her in utero and raised her as a tool to be used by it. I don't know about you, but when Ms. Strahovski describes her as being bitter at being used her entire life, that doesn't scream unflinching loyalty to her cause, to me.
And besides, I wouldn't be surprised if you could Sarevok her and (assuming she is as far-gone as you say she is) convince her that the way she's seeing this is wrong, and to screw Cerberus and it's pro-human ways and barbaric means (I was Sole Survivor, and what Cerberus did on Akuze was unforgivable).
So yeah, I'm going with Miranda. Sure, I'm mainly a FemShep so I would of been looking into either Garrus or waiting for ME3 for another male love interest, though my MaleShep Engineer needs some love too, and while his heart's set on Tali, Miranda looks to be a character that I will have mad fun interacting with.

Modifié par Cascadus, 24 janvier 2010 - 02:58 .

[ishistx]

It's Jack for me, all the way. She looks like the kind of girl you could bring home to kill your parents. Err meet...I meant meet. 

Ashley? Yawn
Miranda? Snore

I'll take psychotic over boring any day.

Modifié par ishistx, 24 janvier 2010 - 03:01 .

[Zhijn]

Altho i was romancing Ashley i left her with the nuke... dont ask.. heh.



So yeh, Miranda is up next! And that outfit of hers do swing in her favor. =o

[Nozybidaj]

I'm sure this has been said already but "Ash-vs-Miranda"? Is there Jell-O involved? I'd pay to see that....

[XDMMX]

Ashley all they way!

Modifié par XDMMX, 24 janvier 2010 - 03:10 .

[Grand Rider]

Cascadus wrote...

You misunderstand me. I hate Cerberus, and all it stands for. I hate them the same reason I hated Terra Firma and told the dude who asked me to represent them to stick it. I saved the Council because I disliked the idea of humans running the whole show. I'm just saying that by all technicality, they don't consider themselves evil, again, their priorities are different. Theirs entails humans coming out on top. And, well, at the very least, Cerberus is doing something about the disappearing human colonies, while the Systems Alliance and the Council would rather prefer to turn a blind-eye.
And have you read the books? Let's take Paul Grayson for example. He was a long time Cerberus operative, though he was still a good person by nature, and in the end, stuck it to Cerberus, helped Gillian escape from the situation at hand and screwed with the Illusive Man and got away with it.
Besides, why don't even know if Miranda really even chose to be part of Cerberus. It sounds like her father was part of the organization and basically genetically modified her in utero and raised her as a tool to be used by it. I don't know about you, but when Ms. Strahovski describes her as being bitter at being used her entire life, that doesn't scream unflinching loyalty to her cause, to me.
And besides, I wouldn't be surprised if you could Sarevok her and (assuming she is as far-gone as you say she is) convince her that the way she's seeing this is wrong, and to screw Cerberus and it's pro-human ways and barbaric means (I was Sole Survivor, and what Cerberus did on Akuze was unforgivable).
So yeah, I'm going with Miranda. Sure, I'm mainly a FemShep so I would of been looking into either Garrus or waiting for ME3 for another male love interest, though my MaleShep Engineer needs some love too, and while his heart's set on Tali, Miranda looks to be a character that I will have mad fun interacting with.

I'm assuming that you're replying to me. If so, I’m sorry if I misinterpreted your position on Cerberus.
 
Honestly, I don’t think any individual or organisation believes that they’re truly “evil”; they probably believe that their goals are noble and while their methods aren’t pleasant they’re necessary for what they believe to be the “greater good”. However, outside of their delusional bubble, in the wake of their various exploits to achieve their goals, the severity and depravity of their actions are usually as plain as day.
 
It doesn’t matter how righteous your intentions are, if your methods are bad, so are you in my opinion. At the end of the day, if you have to stoop to such horrible depths to achieve something then perhaps it’s best that you don’t attempt to do so in the first place. Because whatever you bring to fruition will be forever tarnished by the extreme measures you took to create it. I personally wouldn’t be willing to pay that price or ally myself with anyone who would.
 
I live by the maxim: “Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.” I think it’s very appropriate for someone in Shepard’s position.
 
I’ll freely admit that I’m speculating about Miranda’s character but I won’t neglect the fact that she’s a member of Cerberus whose agenda has been revealed to me via an assortment of media and as a result I am biased against; it’s as simple as that.

Modifié par Grand Rider, 24 janvier 2010 - 04:18 .

[Mars Nova]

For me, at the moment, it's more a question of Ash or Subject Zero.

[Cascadus]

@Grand Rider

Regardless, it'll be interesting talking with her and really getting to know what her opinions on Cerberus really are, among other things such as her background.

But I actually agree with most of what you said, even though I admit I'm a little biased towards Miranda for being voiced and modeled after Yvonne Strahovski and seeming far more interesting than Ashley (well, in my opinion).

[Grand Rider]

Cascadus wrote...

@Grand Rider
Regardless, it'll be interesting talking with her and really getting to know what her opinions on Cerberus really are, among other things such as her background.
But I actually agree with most of what you said, even though I admit I'm a little biased towards Miranda for being voiced and modeled after Yvonne Strahovski and seeming far more interesting than Ashley (well, in my opinion).

*Shrug*. Sure, to each their own.

[DalishRanger]

I'm very loyal when it comes to relationships in stories/games, so Ashley for me. At least, for my canon male Shepard. If I find Miranda interesting enough after playing through once or twice, I might make an alternate male Shepard to romance her. But "officially" - Ash all the way to ME3, if possible.

[KendallX23]

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

Easy choice. Miranda obviously.

Ashley: Religious, militaristic, xenophobic, jealous, doesn't look too great, doesn't want to experiment (not even a threesome, pfft).
Miranda: Perfect body, intelligent, seems open for stuff.

Right very easy...
   Ash is religious cause she belives in a higher power..dosen't seem fanatical...anyway..not a good reason
  Xenophobic-yes...like Miranda isn't...and i can say for sure Miranda is far far worse then Ashley who dosen't seem to dislike working with them after u convince her a litlle..while Miranda is top Cereberus agent....
jealous-gameplay mechanic..and anyway not all people like sharing love ones with others..it's natural
dosen't look that good-right...if u say so...well in my eyes Miranda is not that perfect either...perfect body is in the eye of the observer...some mike find it perfect others not..therefore it is not true perfection
Miranda is intelligent...but where did u come to the conclusion Ashley is not.
How do u know Miranda is open to stuff..or Ashley closed to stuff..all we seen is gameplay mechanics...
Militaristic-right another good reason.Well i guess she must be pure evil casue she is military...well guess what SHepard is military too...u must really hate ur main character
            Too add to this Ashley also reads poem wich is a plus...while Miranda seems to have a sad story...interesting too

[Arijharn]

Grand Rider wrote...
 
Honestly, I don’t think any individual or organisation believes that they’re truly “evil”; they probably believe that their goals are noble and while their methods aren’t pleasant they’re necessary for what they believe to be the “greater good”. However, outside of their delusional bubble, in the wake of their various exploits to achieve their goals, the severity and depravity of their actions are usually as plain as day.
 
It doesn’t matter how righteous your intentions are, if your methods are bad, so are you in my opinion. At the end of the day, if you have to stoop to such horrible depths to achieve something then perhaps it’s best that you don’t attempt to do so in the first place. Because whatever you bring to fruition will be forever tarnished by the extreme measures you took to create it. I personally wouldn’t be willing to pay that price or ally myself with anyone who would.
 
I live by the maxim: “Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.” I think it’s very appropriate for someone in Shepard’s position.
 
I’ll freely admit that I’m speculating about Miranda’s character but I won’t neglect the fact that she’s a member of Cerberus whose agenda has been revealed to me via an assortment of media and as a result I am biased against; it’s as simple as that.

All right, lets take this to the logical extreme (since that is what Cerberus is positioning itself as a solution too). Lets say humanity is facing an extinction level event of some kind (this would be obviously catastrophic and would likely be affecting other races too) and for the chance to even survive, serious research has to be done.

Would you willingly sacrifice people to have a chance for survival? Not just you, maybe not even you but your species? I can't say for sure, because I haven't read the novels, but it seems to me that this is what Cerberus is able to do in a nut shell. Make hard sacrifices to ensure that humanity survives, and while you have mentioned that it is a noble goal, if they can't see any other alternatives about bringing it, what are they going to do, what would you do? To paraphrase Nihilius, the galaxy is a very dangerous place.. is humanity truly ready?

Anyway, Miranda seems interesting and I'm probably jumping the gun by saying  she's complex and all, the only thing that makes me even consider that is in that reveal trailer recently released when she closes her eyes and hangs her head (I think this was about the time when Yvonne mentions that she is bitter because she's constantly been used).

Considering however, that the whole game is built around gaining the loyalty of your party I think it would be squandered opportunity if BioWare doesn't build on the background of your recruitable characters, and hopefully to a much greater extent than what appeared in DA: O (other than Morrigan who I thought was a very well written character and very complex).

As a caveat though, I think that while the idea of Cerberus being able to do the stuff it does in order for humanity to survive and be on top (honestly, I think this is would be a natural instinct for all sapient creatures) I doubt TIM would be so altruistic as to sacrifice himself for humanity (but then again, no healthy organism would freely terminate itself)

Modifié par Arijharn, 24 janvier 2010 - 10:12 .

[Behindyounow]

Ashley recites poetry. Therefore, if someone doesn't recite poetry, they are better than her.



Now we just have to see if Miranda recites poetry, and this question shall be answered.

[ace1221]

clearly the only logical course of action is to take legion as one of the love interests...

[Angel of Love]

Ashley won't join your party so you'll have to use Miranda but she sucks.

[Behindyounow]

Angel of Love wrote...

Ashley won't join your party so you'll have to use Miranda but she sucks.

If she doesn't recite poetry, its scientifically proven she is better than Ashley.

[Angel of Love]

Behindyounow wrote...

Angel of Love wrote...

Ashley won't join your party so you'll have to use Miranda but she sucks.

If she doesn't recite poetry, its scientifically proven she is better than Ashley.

She has a horrible british accent and is one stuck up little woman who's useless in combat.