456 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan312]

beermilk wrote...

JedTed wrote...

I don't have a problem with it but if they do create same sex, human romances then they should make characters that are deffinatly gay. Using the existing characters and making em swing to whatever the player character's orientation is seems cheap to me.

What i mean is if the character is intened to be straight then they shouldn't be turned gay just on the player's whim.

Mind if you give me and anyone lurking some examples of deffinatly gay characteristics?

Lol, I think he just means a character that can only swing one way, not that there are "gay" traits.. 

At this point I don't really care, gender check negation has always worked in the past and allows them to create a character that isn't forced into one corner or the other concerning the vast amount of differing tastes.  Just leave ambiguous conversation dialogue when referencing the gender of the PC.

[pharos_gryphon]

JedTed wrote...

I don't have a problem with it but if they do create same sex, human romances then they should make characters that are deffinatly gay. Using the existing characters and making em swing to whatever the player character's orientation is seems cheap to me.

What i mean is if the character is intened to be straight then they shouldn't be turned gay just on the player's whim.

I've seen this complaint alot, that a character should be one or the other and noticably so rather than bi, but personally I think it adds to the story a great deal leaving it up to the player.  If you're in a romance with a character, 9 times out of 10, they're not flirting with anyone else, so in your version of the game, the character -is- gay or -is- straight.  It goes back to the whole sexuality simply being an 'oh by the way' sort of aspect, rather than front and center.  It adds another level of customization so to speak while at the same time taking minimal effort, and pleasing both those who wish to see it in game, and those who don't.  In the interest of trying to please everyone, we'd get much farther if we pushed for more of this than if we pushed for gay characters where being gay was their sole reason for being.

To be a bit more engaging on the subject, assuming there are no same sex romances in the game, it's almost a certainty that some enterprising individual will try to craft some manner of mod to add one.  Which character(s) interest people the most?  Who do you think would make for the best option while adding to that character's own story depth?

[Seraphael]

beermilk wrote...

Its the truth though. Bioware considers homosexuality worse then having sex with aliens. It gives a very clear message to the gay community what kind of people Bioware & their fans truely consists of.

Cry some moar, why don't ya? Bioware has been more liberal in this regard than just about any other video game developer known to man or alien. As for Bioware fans I would think they reflect the population of the many countries and cultures from which they come. Such sweeping generalizations and immature behaviour is not going to do your cause any credit.

Personally, I consider gay and lesbian content too much of a minority content to be included in every game. When ME2 is all about making the game more attractive to a wider audience, I fully support Biowares decision in this

[Eternal Dust]

JedTed wrote...

I don't have a problem with it but if they do create same sex, human romances then they should make characters that are deffinatly gay. Using the existing characters and making em swing to whatever the player character's orientation is seems cheap to me.

What i mean is if the character is intened to be straight then they shouldn't be turned gay just on the player's whim.

Just like the way Tali/Garrus weren't intended to be romanced in the first game, but somehow they magically find Shepard appealing in the second?

Honestly, the characters are changed at the whims of the writers.

[Revan312]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

I'm not missing the point at all, in fact, my point has been proven. What you're asking for essentially, are characters with tacked on dialogue that appeases the gay community, or characters which, irrespective of their design and the story they're presented in, swoon over your male shepard, or awkwardly shuffle their feet and look away every time your female enters the room. This isn't a character designed for a gay or bi community. This is merely a sexuality-neutral character 

I love Zevran in Dragon Age, and believe he works very well as a character, both in his personality and sexuality. 

What I'd loathe to see in a BW game, is the inclusion of the sort of "token" character I mentioned above. As I've said already; BW didn't feel the need to include a gay/bi LI into their story. I completely agree with their decision, as, as has proven in the past, they know how to create both story and characters. However, I'd still support it if they decided to include such a character.

While I agree that actually creating a gay character for either m/m or f/f would be the ideal.  They're not gonna do that, Bioware never has and with the exclusion of such "Bi" characterizations in this ME2 I don't see them taking the leap and actually creating an intriguing and deep character that just happens to be gay. 

I understand the desire for such an option, I want to see more range and diversity in these games but I just don't see it happening.  I'm just pointing out the fact that if they would have made Samara a bisexual option you wouldn't see these threads.  Ultimately people can be appeased quite easily with such options, not that I don't agree that that's a cheap way of going about it.

[tangalin]

Owww... my reporting hand hurts.... so much reporting, especially in the first 4-5 pages.



I support this 100% btw, and even though I'm trans, I'm okay with not having a transgender shepard. That would be kinda weird actually

[Homebound]

IMHO, some characters should be this, or that, leaving it up in the air diminishes that character's dynamic characteristics and would just end up being a flat and static character. Also just because a character is gay/lesbian/bi, why does that automatically mean that they should be romanceable?



I support having dynamic characters in all aspects, but to have a Gay or Lesbian or Bisexual character JUST for the simple fact of having a Gay or Lesbian or Bisexual character that can be romanced does not sit well with me.

[Akrim_Drak]

beermilk wrote...

JedTed wrote...

I don't have a problem with it but if they do create same sex, human romances then they should make characters that are deffinatly gay. Using the existing characters and making em swing to whatever the player character's orientation is seems cheap to me.

What i mean is if the character is intened to be straight then they shouldn't be turned gay just on the player's whim.

Mind if you give me and anyone lurking some examples of deffinatly gay characteristics?

The way I read it is that he wants one that's exclusively gay and not just bisexual to add it in. Not necessarily an effeminate man or a butch woman or what have you? Just my take on it. I personally don't mind the bisexual characters as opposed to an exclusively same-sex one. The thing that does bug me is when a character like Zevran shoves the fact he prefers women to men down your throat. It makes me not even want to bother with it. I'd really just like one who if your a male who flirts with him then he treats it as normal, or a woman who does the same with a female character.

I mean sure metagaming we would know they're not exclusive, but in the immersion experience you'd have no idea, and by no means does that mean I want ALL characters to be bisexual. One is fine as that's more realistic anyway.

[beermilk]

Yeah, its pretty immature to point out the fact that the "many" countries and cultures would rather stick their pee-pee in a hanar then having to deal or speak 2 words to a human who by chance or choice is a homosexual.



Youre right, minorities shouldnt be given any space & voice in any medium until they have become a majority!

[Saberfox65]

They should have *at* least made Tali romancable for Femsheps, and Thane for male sheps. Regardless, my full support to the thread.

[Homebound]

Just_mike wrote...

IMHO, some characters should be this, or that, leaving it up in the air diminishes that character's dynamic characteristics and would just end up being a flat and static character. Also just because a character is gay/lesbian/bi, why does that automatically mean that they should be romanceable?

I support having dynamic characters in all aspects, but to have a Gay or Lesbian or Bisexual character JUST for the simple fact of having a Gay or Lesbian or Bisexual character that can be romanced does not sit well with me.

[Darth_Shizz]

Saberfox65 wrote...

They should have *at* least made Tali romancable for Femsheps, and Thane for male sheps. Regardless, my full support to the thread.

But why would Thane be a suitably bisexual character? How could they have altered his design to make this so? 

Genuine questions btw.

Though I don't entirely disagree on Tali. She's one of the few I feel could've worked due to your history with her.

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 24 janvier 2010 - 05:31 .

[Saberfox65]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

Saberfox65 wrote...

They should have *at* least made Tali romancable for Femsheps, and Thane for male sheps. Regardless, my full support to the thread.

But why would Thane be a suitably bisexual character? How could they have altered his design to make this so? 

Genuine questions btw.

Well, to be honest, I wouldn't know.  He just seems like he'd swing both ways.  

[Kurt M.]

Being realist (and I'm gay, so please don't say I'm being a troll), a gay/lesbian (more gay than anything, because lesbian theorically was in ME1...and please don't say that asaris doesn't count) romance will be avaliable in any case as a 3rd-party mod (if they can be made for ME2). If it was a DLC/Cerberus download it'd be pretty infamous, and certainly Bioware won't risk of losing sales because of inmature kiddies who say that ME2 is a "gay game" (who will be, sadly, a big part of the ME2 customers).

Sad, but true. People still hasn't advanced mentally to the point of realize it's optional, and as respectable as any other option. Still, although there's no "gay" option in the Vanilla game/DLC/Cerberus, that doesn't mean I won't enjoy the game, and even the romances (I'll just take the girl I like the most ^^).

Modifié par Gladiador2, 24 janvier 2010 - 05:30 .

[Revan312]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

But why would Thane be a suitably bisexual character? How could they have altered his design to make this so? 

Genuine questions btw.

Well, the way he exposes his chest seems more "Jersey Shore" than anything to me

[Akrim_Drak]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

Saberfox65 wrote...

They should have *at* least made Tali romancable for Femsheps, and Thane for male sheps. Regardless, my full support to the thread.

But why would Thane be a suitably bisexual character? How could they have altered his design to make this so? 

Genuine questions btw.

Thought I don't entirely disagree on Tali. She's one of the few I feel could've worked due to your history with her.

I don't think anybody knows enough about Thane period to decide why he should go one way or the other? Except maybe the whole religion thing but for a Drell who knows what that means. They could also have probably done it with Garrus too as he and Shepard seem to be really close regardless of gender. Not sure how a Turian would view our species but hey!

[Darth_Shizz]

Saberfox65 wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

Saberfox65 wrote...

They should have *at* least made Tali romancable for Femsheps, and Thane for male sheps. Regardless, my full support to the thread.

But why would Thane be a suitably bisexual character? How could they have altered his design to make this so? 

Genuine questions btw.

Well, to be honest, I wouldn't know.  He just seems like he'd swing both ways.  

Haha. I'm just waiting for someone to come in and mention his penchant for leather being a sure sign of bisexuality.

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 24 janvier 2010 - 05:30 .

[danman2424]

Revan312 wrote...


Very well said and I agree wholeheartedly, it's just hard for me to not respond to trolls, I think I have a condition where bigoted or ill-informed people force my hand to the keyboard *shrugs*  I'll try and stop...

FYI, opposing gay marriage or homosexuality in general does not necessarily make you a bigot. A bigot usually bears contempt for someone based on the way that person looks, or where they come from. One is not  a bigot just because they disagree with something a person prefers or takes participation in. You can be a bigot for disliking someone because they have dark skin. but you are not really a bigot for disliking someone's actions because you find them reprehensible. That would be like calling someone a bigot of thieves just because he/she expresses distaste for what a thief does.

[pharos_gryphon]

Saberfox65 wrote...

They should have *at* least made Tali romancable for Femsheps, and Thane for male sheps. Regardless, my full support to the thread.

The choice of those two is interesting to me.  Personally, Mordin seemed the most interesting character for such an option in regards to m/m romance, but perhaps that's because the whole 'sexually ambiguous assassin' thing had been done already with Zevran in DAO.  Samara obviously seemed a stand out to me for f/f, both by virtue of the Asari themselves and the dev comments, though making the 'ship fling' a non gender specific one seems like a feasible thought, too.  Off topic somewhat, but the Consort in ME1... was her intimate encounter available to both genders, or just males?  I fail to recall the matter. >.< 

Back to Thane though, what makes you think him in particular do you think?  Any specific trait or reasoning, or just gut instinct?  Tali would be interesting, and there's certainly a large fanbase to push for it, though SuZe seems like she'd be more apt, albeit a bit more of a stereotype by so doing.

[Revan312]

danman2424 wrote...
FYI, opposing gay marriage or homosexuality in general does not necessarily make you a bigot. A bigot usually bears contempt for someone based on the way that person looks, or where they come from. One is not  a bigot just because they disagree with something a person prefers or takes participation in. You can be a bigot for disliking someone because they have dark skin. but you are not really a bigot for disliking someone's actions because you find them reprehensible. That would be like calling someone a bigot of thieves just because he/she expresses distaste for what a thief does.

Wow, did you just use an analogy of thievery in comparison to homosexuality?  Let the Flames begin!!

[Akrim_Drak]

pharos_gryphon wrote...

Saberfox65 wrote...

They should have *at* least made Tali romancable for Femsheps, and Thane for male sheps. Regardless, my full support to the thread.

The choice of those two is interesting to me.  Personally, Mordin seemed the most interesting character for such an option in regards to m/m romance, but perhaps that's because the whole 'sexually ambiguous assassin' thing had been done already with Zevran in DAO.  Samara obviously seemed a stand out to me for f/f, both by virtue of the Asari themselves and the dev comments, though making the 'ship fling' a non gender specific one seems like a feasible thought, too.  Off topic somewhat, but the Consort in ME1... was her intimate encounter available to both genders, or just males?  I fail to recall the matter. >.< 

Back to Thane though, what makes you think him in particular do you think?  Any specific trait or reasoning, or just gut instinct?  Tali would be interesting, and there's certainly a large fanbase to push for it, though SuZe seems like she'd be more apt, albeit a bit more of a stereotype by so doing.

The thing with Mordin though is that Salarians lack sexual drive really. They only do it to procreate so a gay Salarian would be REALLY out there...

[Darth_Shizz]

Akrim_Drak wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

Saberfox65 wrote...

They should have *at* least made Tali romancable for Femsheps, and Thane for male sheps. Regardless, my full support to the thread.

But why would Thane be a suitably bisexual character? How could they have altered his design to make this so? 

Genuine questions btw.

Thought I don't entirely disagree on Tali. She's one of the few I feel could've worked due to your history with her.

I don't think anybody knows enough about Thane period to decide why he should go one way or the other? Except maybe the whole religion thing but for a Drell who knows what that means. They could also have probably done it with Garrus too as he and Shepard seem to be really close regardless of gender. Not sure how a Turian would view our species but hey!

This is a fair point, as I'm pretty confident very few people do know enough about him. However, considering he wasn't created as male LI in the first place, I'd imagine his character was designed in such a way as to justify this.

Not entirely sure about Garrus either ;p It definitely  has the potential to be interesting, though I seriously doubt BW would explore the social aspects of Turian society enough, to give us an indication of it's views regarding cross-species/same-gender relationships. This would be the really interesting part.

[ChaoticBroth]

Just_mike wrote...

IMHO, some characters should be this, or that, leaving it up in the air diminishes that character's dynamic characteristics and would just end up being a flat and static character. Also just because a character is gay/lesbian/bi, why does that automatically mean that they should be romanceable?

I support having dynamic characters in all aspects, but to have a Gay or Lesbian or Bisexual character JUST for the simple fact of having a Gay or Lesbian or Bisexual character that can be romanced does not sit well with me.

I agree completely with your point.

It would also be kinda weird to make the main storyline romances available for a gay/lesbian relationship, since their characters are already set.

[Darth_Shizz]

Revan312 wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

But why would Thane be a suitably bisexual character? How could they have altered his design to make this so? 

Genuine questions btw.

Well, the way he exposes his chest seems more "Jersey Shore" than anything to me

Haha. Or they could go the completely PC route by giving him a neck-scarf and adding a ton of "fabulous"s to his dialogue   


Just imagine the damage he could do with that neck-scarf...

[pharos_gryphon]

danman2424 wrote...

Revan312 wrote...


Very well said and I agree wholeheartedly, it's just hard for me to not respond to trolls, I think I have a condition where bigoted or ill-informed people force my hand to the keyboard *shrugs*  I'll try and stop...

FYI, opposing gay marriage or homosexuality in general does not necessarily make you a bigot. A bigot usually bears contempt for someone based on the way that person looks, or where they come from. One is not  a bigot just because they disagree with something a person prefers or takes participation in. You can be a bigot for disliking someone because they have dark skin. but you are not really a bigot for disliking someone's actions because you find them reprehensible. That would be like calling someone a bigot of thieves just because he/she expresses distaste for what a thief does.

Just to offer a bit further perspective and context, the technical definition of a bigot, according to Dictionary.com, is as follows:

"–noun a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."

Doesn't prove one side or the other right, but it's worth noting.  Again however, whether differing sexuality is okay, as well as the argument on whether or not it's a chosen action or an innate trait, doesn't further the conversation any as folks are unlikely to be convinced to change their views based on jibes passed back and forth. 

On topic, LGBT characters in other games, such as Sky or Leliana, who do folks think were the best done?  Do we know who in particular worked on those characters the most?  How did they positively impact your experiance both personally and your overall perception of the game setting?