456 réponses à ce sujet

[danman2424]

octoberfire wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
Why do you feel homosexuality should be accepted?

Why shouldn't it? Is it killing off your friends and family? Is it infringing on your own relationships in any manner? Does it make your marriage less meaningful? Is it destroying the ozone layer? Is it melting the ice caps? Does it harm you in any way?

No.

Fair enough, but then I assume you also support incest, bestiality, dendrophilia, and a number of other sex acts that deviate from the biological standard of man and woman. After all, as long as a sex act is not hurting anyone else (according to you), then we should support people in their apparent right to have sex with whomever or whatever they like, right?

[Kurt M.]

ERJAK2 wrote...

Gladiador2 wrote...

Gay marriages are nonsense rituals that some non-satisfied *maricas* want to have in order to try to diminish the void they've in their materialistic gay lives. IM*G*A

Besides, that's not the point of this thread


*That's "G" for "gay" ^^

Obvious troll is obvious, but, just for kicks, I'll through ya a bone. Gay =/= materialistic, that's not even a stereotype of gay relationships. Second of all, this is America(for the most part) if you're not materialistic you're doing something wrong. Finally, gay people want to get married for the same reason straight people (supposedly) do, love (not to mention all the legal stuff.).

Heh, imagine the alliance trying to hold out a marriage licencse from gay renegade shep.
"Would you rather be 'immoral' or a corpse?" 

I'm gay. How can I be a troll?

And hetero marriage is basically the same...although gay divorces have ALREADY exceeded the marriages/divorces ratio, and have ALREADY exceeded heterosexual marriage/divorce ratio, TOO (at least here in Spain), which confirms my theory

Modifié par Gladiador2, 24 janvier 2010 - 06:09 .

[Eternal Dust]

Just_mike wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

SuZe should have been the F/F option at least <_<

Just because she's Bisexual doesnt mean she HAS to be a F/F romance option...

Yeah and just because someone's heterosexual doesn't mean they HAVE to be a romance option, but apparently BioWare is giving all the heteros out there everything under the sun. And really, SuZe being a F/F option doesn't really take away from her being the M/F option for males either.

EDIT: your avatar looks like Paris Hilton.

That was so not what I intended.

[Bigeyez]

If it's tied into the story and actually matters sure, but a same sex reomance just for the sake of having a same sex romance? Nope, don't support that, just like I wouldn't support a hetero romance just for the sake of having a romance.

Integrate it into the story in a way that makes sense and I don't care what you do with the romances.

[Revan312]

pharos_gryphon wrote...

Samara I think it would definately add some more depth to, as it would bring in conflict over her choice of oath never to have children, her personal sacrafices for her belief in Asari justice, etc.  The emotional impact for both her and the player if the player chooses to stay faithful or cheat on her with the 'ship fling' would exponentially increased too, were that an option as well.  The dialogue would be amazing I should think.

As was posted just above you, Garrus would be interesting.  He was such a 'Spectre Jr.' and idolized you so much in the first one, it just seems like it'd be a naturally fitting scenario for his idolization to become an emotional attachment.  His actions since the end of ME1, and your character's view of them, would offer a chance to drastically affect him on an emotional and psychological level.  Whether he thinks your expectations are too high or not worth living up to, or whether you support the choices he's made... again, just seems like it'd be fertile ground for some amazing dialogue between characters.

Ya, I could smell the idolization from Garrus in the first game.  He seemed like he would die for Shepard.  Even decisions Shep made that he fundamentally disagreed with ended up being Garrus rethinking his postion and saying that "Your like no ther person I've met".  Minus the Council decision, he always seemed to come around to your way of thinking no matter what your shep did, it seemed painfully obvious the crush he had shepard...

I also hope that the depth of conversation is there with SuZe if your a femshep as I watched some video of maleshep and her and the background history she tells is really intriguing.

[pharos_gryphon]

danman2424 wrote...
Homosexuality is not even close to being a specific ethnic group. A person of any ethnic group can be gay, but a gay person cannot be a member of any ethnic group.

Somewhat offtopic, but in the hopes of stemming the argument, I'd like to offer this bit of personal disclosure.  I didn't choose to be gay.  I fell in love with another person, not out of lust or out of any predetermined decision to... it just happened.  I can no more that decide I don't love that person than I can decide that I no longer wish to be right handed or have brown eyes.  I understand that others disagree with it, and that's fine.  I've no anger at them for the fact as it's their choice.  We all have things we disagree with that others do, but as should be the case with families I think, you don't need to agree with a person's life in order to care about them.  Many people have family members that they honestly just don't like much, or that they think _____ about, but that doesn't mean they'll actively work to hinder them or wish them ill.  Humanity works in a similar respect.  We're never going to be all the same, nor are we ever going to all agree on anything.  But we're all part of the same race, and each part, though different, is equally important.  Whether I use my hand more than my foot, or my foot more than my hand, they're still just as much a part of my existance.  Minorities are just as important as majorities, as it's the differences and variations in life that give it its vibrance.  <3

[danman2424]

ERJAK2 wrote...


Yes, but it is closer to ethnicity then thievery, because you are most often born with it. There are people who choose to be "gay" for lack of a much longer explanation of what I mean there, which is why it's not the exactly the same.

There is no medical or scientific proof as of yet that anyone is "born with it". No "gay gene" has been discovered. In fact, it is the official stance of just about every medical and scientific institution that homosexuality development that occurs most often at a young age.

Although we know that if placed in harsh enough conditions (prisons, the military) people have been known to change in their preferences much later in life as well.

[Homebound]

octoberfire wrote...

Just_mike wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

SuZe should have been the F/F option at least <_<

Just because she's Bisexual doesnt mean she HAS to be a F/F romance option...

Yeah and just because someone's heterosexual doesn't mean they HAVE to be a romance option, but apparently BioWare is giving all the heteros out there everything under the sun.

EDIT: your avatar looks like Paris Hilton.

That was so not what I intended.

I agree, just because they are a major character in the game doesnt mean that they should get a romance subplot.

With that being said, Id be giving out spoilers but, Im pretty sure there are some heterosexual characters in ME2 that dont have a romance subplot.

[Akrim_Drak]

Bigeyez wrote...

If it's tied into the story and actually matters sure, but a same sex reomance just for the sake of having a same sex romance? Nope, don't support that, just like I wouldn't support a hetero romance just for the sake of having a romance.

Integrate it into the story in a way that makes sense and I don't care what you do with the romances.

I think most of us agree with you there. Nobody wants it just to be there. We all want it to be just as real and meaningful as the other options. It's pretty obvious when it's tacked on and that usually does more harm than good.

[Eternal Dust]

danman2424 wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
Why do you feel homosexuality should be accepted?

Why shouldn't it? Is it killing off your friends and family? Is it infringing on your own relationships in any manner? Does it make your marriage less meaningful? Is it destroying the ozone layer? Is it melting the ice caps? Does it harm you in any way?

No.

Fair enough, but then I assume you also support incest, bestiality, dendrophilia, and a number of other sex acts that deviate from the biological standard of man and woman. After all, as long as a sex act is not hurting anyone else (according to you), then we should support people in their apparent right to have sex with whomever or whatever they like, right?

That is hardly the case, and I actually even wrote a term paper addressing this very tired argument that people like you keep throwing out.

Incest leads to mutation in the offspring. Harmful. Bestiality is potentially harmful to the actual person engaging in the act. Can you even argue that it's love in this case? There is actual love between homosexual couples. And dendrophilia is a paraphilia which can not be categorized as a sexual orientation.

What you fail to understand is that homosexual relationships are more than just the "sex act." Of course you must discredt the actual human emotions that are present just to make your case.

Anyway, back on topic. I support m/m and f/f romances.

[Homebound]

danman2424 wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...


Yes, but it is closer to ethnicity then thievery, because you are most often born with it. There are people who choose to be "gay" for lack of a much longer explanation of what I mean there, which is why it's not the exactly the same.

There is no medical or scientific proof as of yet that anyone is "born with it". No "gay gene" has been discovered. In fact, it is the official stance of just about every medical and scientific institution that homosexuality development that occurs most often at a young age.

Although we know that if placed in harsh enough conditions (prisons, the military) people have been known to change in their preferences much later in life as well.

Are you implying that the Military makes you gay?

[Revan312]

danman2424 wrote...

There is no medical or scientific proof as of yet that anyone is "born with it". No "gay gene" has been discovered. In fact, it is the official stance of just about every medical and scientific institution that homosexuality development that occurs most often at a young age.

Although we know that if placed in harsh enough conditions (prisons, the military) people have been known to change in their preferences much later in life as well.

ReAlLy?!?!

heres a list... and most of these are considered in utero developments


Biological differences in gay men and lesbians
[edit] Physiological
Recent studies have found notable differences between the physiology of gay people and non-gay people. There is evidence that:

• The VIP SCN nucleus of the hypothalmus is larger in men than in women, and larger in gay men than in heterosexual men.[45]
• Gay men and straight women have, on average, equally proportioned
  brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have, on average,
  slightly larger right brain hemispheres.[46]
• The average size of the INAH-3
  in the brains of gay men is approximately the same size as INAH 3 in
  women, which is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely
  packed, than in heterosexual men's brains.[47]
• The suprachiasmatic nucleus was found by Swaab and Hopffman to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[48] the suprachiasmatic nucleus is also known to be larger in men than in women.[49]
• The anterior commissure is larger in women than men and was reported to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[50] but a subsequent study found no such difference.[51]
• Gay men report, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.[52][53]
• Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.[54]
• The functioning of the inner ear and the central auditory system in
  lesbians and bisexual women are more like the functional properties
  found in men than in non-gay women (the researchers argued this finding
  was consistent with the prenatal hormonal theory of sexual orientation).[55]
• The startle response (eyeblink following a loud sound) is similarly masculinized in lesbians and bisexual women.[56]
• One region of the brain (amygdala) is more active in gay men than non-gay men when exposed to sexually arousing material.[57]
• Gay and non-gay people emit different underarm odors.[58]
• Gay and non-gay people's brains respond differently to two human
  sex pheromones (AND, found in male armpit secretions, and EST, found in
  female urine).[59][60][61]
• Finger length ratios between the index and ring fingers may be different between non-gay and lesbian women.[55][62][63][64][65][66]
• Gay men and lesbians are significantly more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous than non-gay men and women;[67][68][69] Simon LeVay argues that because "[h]and preference is observable before birth[70]...
  [t]he observation of increased non-right-handness in gay people is
  therefore consistent with the idea that sexual orientation is
  influenced by prenatal processes," perhaps heredity.[47]
• A study of 50 gay men found 23% had counterclockwise hair whirl, as
  opposed to 8% in the general population. This may correlate with
  left-handedness.[71]
• Gay men have increased ridge density in the fingerprints on their left thumbs and pinkies.[71]
• Length of limbs and hands of gay men is smaller compared to height than the general population, but only among white men.[71]

[edit] Cognitive
Recent studies suggest the presence of subtle differences in the way
gay people and non-gay people process certain kinds of information.
Researchers have found that:

• Gay men[72] and lesbians are more verbally fluent than heterosexuals of the same sex[73][74][75] (but two studies did not find this result).[76][77]
• Gay men may receive higher scores than non-gay men on tests of
  object location memory (no difference was found between lesbians and
  non-gay women).[78]

 

Modifié par Revan312, 24 janvier 2010 - 06:19 .

[Eternal Dust]

Ok guys BACK ON TOPIC or this will get locked down faster than you can say gay.

[JohnF1986]

One thing I find worthy of notion in this whole debate: The majority of people seems to be on the extreme ends of the spectrum. It's mostly ho yay or ho nay.

What was that thing I read some time ago? The world won't instantly be better because of Barack Obama becoming the president, but it would be if nobody found anything special about the colour of his skin. Kinda fits the extremes here. ^^



The thing is... It's not important whether it is possible, and on no terms a sign of 'sucking up to the right wing media' if it is not. More so in Mass Effect, where we merely decide what a character, which we only loosely accentuate, acts like in certain situations. Thus, we only nuanciate Shepard, we don't create him or her. Bioware does. The dialogue wheel is the part of the game where this is most apparent. We can't really argue about free decisions in Mass Effect since Shepard is already a character with a pretty defined development - and you would not make LBGT a necessity in any kind of fiction, or would you?

Yes, sexual orientation is not a part of it that is clearly referred to. So, I won't have a problem with missing same-gender romances in ME2, but I'd not mind the option. And I (bi female engaged to straight male) wholeheartedly support this thread, as I can see people playing their ME1 FemSheps as L and now lack an option. ^^

After all, what matters is that romances are meaningful and well-written. And to be honest, the "alien" one in ME1 was more kind of teenage shenanigans than full-blooded love.

[ERJAK2]

danman2424 wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
Why do you feel homosexuality should be accepted?

Why shouldn't it? Is it killing off your friends and family? Is it infringing on your own relationships in any manner? Does it make your marriage less meaningful? Is it destroying the ozone layer? Is it melting the ice caps? Does it harm you in any way?

No.

Fair enough, but then I assume you also support incest, bestiality, dendrophilia, and a number of other sex acts that deviate from the biological standard of man and woman. After all, as long as a sex act is not hurting anyone else (according to you), then we should support people in their apparent right to have sex with whomever or whatever they like, right?

First of all, incest is only taboo because of the possibility of creating deformed offspring. Before we understood that, it was widely practiced and excepted, look at the greek gods. Honestly, I really don't give a flying fishstick about incest if it is voluntary and can't result in offspring. Doesn't hurt me any.

Secondly, bestiality is between a human and a non-sentient creature, so consent cannot be given, and it cannot be compared to homosexuality. Dendrophilia also counts here.

If it's not between two sentient consenting individuals, it cannot be compared to homosexuality. If it results in children that will be somehow harmed from the union, then it is wrong. Homosexuality is between consenting sentient entities, and does not result in malformed offspring so no problem.

[pharos_gryphon]

Revan312 wrote...

Ya, I could smell the idolization from Garrus in the first game.  He seemed like he would die for Shepard.  Even decisions Shep made that he fundamentally disagreed with ended up being Garrus rethinking his postion and saying that "Your like no ther person I've met".  Minus the Council decision, he always seemed to come around to your way of thinking no matter what your shep did, it seemed painfully obvious the crush he had shepard...

I also hope that the depth of conversation is there with SuZe if your a femshep as I watched some video of maleshep and her and the background history she tells is really intriguing.

See that's where Garrus would be the most interesting in ME2 I think.  After he rejoins Shepard after their time apart, him coming to terms with how much his idealized version of Shepard matches up and possibly conflicts with the real, flawed individual.  Does that lessen his respect/emotions in regard to his idol, or deepen them?  How would their loyalty to one another affect their views on their own races, who seem permanently inclined towards animosity?  Even without an m/m romance option he'll be interesting, but the possibility of such would just make him all the more so on an emotional level.

[Homebound]

octoberfire wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
Why do you feel homosexuality should be accepted?

Why shouldn't it? Is it killing off your friends and family? Is it infringing on your own relationships in any manner? Does it make your marriage less meaningful? Is it destroying the ozone layer? Is it melting the ice caps? Does it harm you in any way?

No.

Fair enough, but then I assume you also support incest, bestiality, dendrophilia, and a number of other sex acts that deviate from the biological standard of man and woman. After all, as long as a sex act is not hurting anyone else (according to you), then we should support people in their apparent right to have sex with whomever or whatever they like, right?

That is hardly the case, and I actually even wrote a term paper addressing this very tired argument that people like you keep throwing out.

Incest leads to mutation in the offspring. Harmful. Bestiality is potentially harmful to the actual person engaging in the act. Can you even argue that it's love in this case? There is actual love between homosexual couples. And dendrophilia is a paraphilia which can not be categorized as a sexual orientation.

What you fail to understand is that homosexual relationships are more than just the "sex act." Of course you must discredt the actual human emotions that are present just to make your case.

Anyway, back on topic. I support m/m and f/f romances.

I find your view of Incestral couples to be painfully stereotypical. That is all.

btw, did you read my reply to you?

[Akrim_Drak]

I really wish you guys would stop agruing with the people who are here NOT in support of it. Sure people are entitled to their opinions and beliefs but this is not the place for it. Anything they say is off topic and takes away from the thread, and when you respond to it you're doing more damage than good. Take the high road!



As far as options in the game go I wish we knew more about Jacob... Did that ME Galaxy game say anything about his personality other than his background? Of course I'm getting all excited for Garrus now and I'll probably be let down.

[danman2424]

octoberfire wrote...

danman2424 wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
Why do you feel homosexuality should be accepted?

Why shouldn't it? Is it killing off your friends and family? Is it infringing on your own relationships in any manner? Does it make your marriage less meaningful? Is it destroying the ozone layer? Is it melting the ice caps? Does it harm you in any way?

No.

Fair enough, but then I assume you also support incest, bestiality, dendrophilia, and a number of other sex acts that deviate from the biological standard of man and woman. After all, as long as a sex act is not hurting anyone else (according to you), then we should support people in their apparent right to have sex with whomever or whatever they like, right?

That is hardly the case, and I actually even wrote a term paper addressing this very tired argument that people like you keep throwing out.

Incest leads to mutation in the offspring. Harmful. Bestiality is potentially harmful to the actual person engaging in the act. Can you even argue that it's love in this case? There is actual love between homosexual couples. And dendrophilia is a paraphilia which can not be categorized as a sexual orientation.

What you fail to understand is that homosexual relationships are more than just the "sex act." Of course you must discredt the actual human emotions that are present just to make your case.

Anyway, back on topic. I support m/m and f/f romances.

Suppose the male in the incestuous relationship has had a vasectomy, or the woman has had her tubes tied? Then would you say "Ah well, no harm can be done now. Let them do what they want"? What if they don't want to have children? What if the relationship is between a brother and a brother, or a mother and a daughter (once the daughter is of age of course)? Then would you support the relationship seeing as how they're not hurting anyone and it's really none of your business?

As for bestiality, I have seen a number of documentaries and read quite a bit on the topic. I can affirm that to these people, it is love, and much more than just a sex act.

[ERJAK2]

On topic now, I think this new "Kasumi" DLC character would be the best solution to this problem, I'll take whatever I can get at this point and one bisexual female would be enough for me this time around.

[Homebound]

danman2424 wrote...


[*]Gay men report, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.[52][53]
[*]

[*]Lucky bums. <_<

[Kirika69]

...I think we're getting pretty off topic here. Let's not debate the nuances of gay and lesbian lifestyle choices or whatever. Mods are looking for any excuse to lockdown these threads, just like the last bunch.



Bottomline is we'd like Bioware to continue their trend of having companion characters, regardless of their gender, romancable by any player character regardless of their gender. People expected it in ME2 from ME1, and are appealing to Bioware to hear their voice.



This is not about equality, PC, gay rights, or anything like that. People simply want their games enriched by the addition, and the trend set by ME1 (and some of Bioware's other RPGs) maintained. They want the choice.



I'm sure if there was no F/F in ME1 we wouldn't even be having this discussion, at least to this extent.

[Arik7]

Just_mike wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

SuZe should have been the F/F option at least <_<

Just because she's Bisexual doesnt mean she HAS to be a F/F romance option...

There goes the argument that your Shepard can be gay, but your squadmates are all straight.   Bioware gives you a plenty of options to customize your Shepard, except for his/her sexuality.  It's just not right.

Modifié par Arik7, 24 janvier 2010 - 06:22 .