1005 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

They might be separate elements.  But they mix together to create something greater than the sum of their parts
 
 An absurd plot with a "happy"ending or at least the option for it
 
Or even a tragic ending where the character had a rational reason for the sacrifice 
 
would not have caused nearly the backlash.
 

What does not knowing what the Crucible does while building it have to do with this? You keep drifting away from the original subject.

[AlanC9]

Yes. But part of what Shepard was doing is trying to figure out what the MacGuffin is and why Saren wants it. In ME3, otoh Shepard seems to care little for what the Crucible is or what it can do. (besides the highly generic "stop the Reapers")

Really? I'm just replaying ME, and what the Conduit actually does hasn't come up once. Saren believes the Conduit will allow the Reapers to return, and the Protheans believe that the Crucible can defeat the Reapers. That's all Shepard knows. ME1 Shepard doesn't care about not knowing the how of it; ME3 Shepard does care, but can't do anything about it.

[AlanC9]

Gripes:
1. Over 95% of SP is unnecessary banter & chatter with NPC's. Only 5% is actual gameplay. You can beat the game in less than 8 hours & less than 15 dlc included. I'm not a metagamer here but after playing ME1 (4x times), ME2 (2x times), & ME3 (2x times) they could of done better.

Hmmm... 8 hours? How fast could you beat ME1? Though I guess inventory fiddling would lengthen that one a bit. And your percentages strike me as bogus.
 

Maybe if I can kill her off yes
6.

Play a low EMS game. Problem solved.

[Iakus]

What does not knowing what the Crucible does while building it have to do with this? You keep drifting away from the original subject.

 

Goes toward the absurd plot.  Shepard spends the whole game gathering personnel and resources for a project he has no clue what it will do outside of some vague "stop the Reapers"  

 

What resources are needed?  What kind of expertise?  What kind of precautions should we be taking for our own people?  

 

Why is any given piece of tech or scientist important?  I mean, eezo capacitors?  "Sure, stick them in there somewhere, between the corusca gems and off Jeffries Tube 3"

[KaiserShep]

That sounds like more of an issue with the war asset system than the plot itself. The fact that multiplayer allows you to just heap on points through promotions is, I think, the real problem. But then, the same is true of the DLC's, which can net you hundreds of extra points themselves. I guess this is the problem with putting any kind of real details into the Crucible while also having to build the collective strength of your allies. Like, if you gather the most assets in your fighting force that the game allows, you could still get the worst ending, because you didn't gather enough wingnuts to hold the Crucible's reaper discombobulator together.

[AlanC9]

Goes toward the absurd plot.  Shepard spends the whole game gathering personnel and resources for a project he has no clue what it will do outside of some vague "stop the Reapers"
 
What resources are needed?  What kind of expertise?  What kind of precautions should we be taking for our own people?  
 
Why is any given piece of tech or scientist important?  I mean, eezo capacitors?  "Sure, stick them in there somewhere, between the corusca gems and off Jeffries Tube 3"

This is just confused. They have the plans for the thing, minus a certain key component. They understand those plans well enough to build it, and thus well enough to add eezo capacitors.

[Iakus]

This is just confused. They have the plans for the thing, minus a certain key component. They understand those plans well enough to build it, and thus well enough to add eezo capacitors.

 

No, because they don't know what this device is supposed to do in the first place, they wouldn't know if adding something will make it work better, do nothing or maybe blow the whole thing up.

[AlanC9]

No, because they don't know what this device is supposed to do in the first place, they wouldn't know if adding something will make it work better, do nothing or maybe blow the whole thing up.

You're misreading how the Crucible war assets are said to work. They improve Alliance capabilities to accomplish things that the Crucible design is already known to require, or they improve the efficiency of the overall construction process. Without those assets you end up with a Crucible that doesn't function up to its design specs. Or rather, is so minimally functional that any combat damage will bring it below various thresholds.

I agree it isn't ideal. In a low EMS game the Crucible should simply fail to operate at all.

[KaiserShep]

There's no point in ME1 where it would have made sense to have to confront and kill her. It certainly wouldn't make sense for her to side with Benezia, since she was aligned with the very person who sent geth and a krogan to capture or kill her. Not to mention how she was waxing sinister most of the time in the encounter. All she needed was fire in the background.

 

As for the asari squad member in the next Mass Effect game, I guess quitting is the only option, because having alien squad members is kind of part and parcel with this series, and I doubt BioWare would ever have us go without an asari on the team somewhere.

[Uccio]

 

5. Liara. After having a break from her in ME2, not only does she of all people become a squadmate but she also takes a whole room to herself! Are you kidding me!? Miranda was my LI an after seeing Liara take over her room pissed me off. I wanted to cap her in the head right then and there. How dare she! She is really the main reason why I cannot find it in myself to keep replaying or enjoying ME. Seriously. Maybe if I can kill her off yes but no...BIOWARE just had to keep pushing her.

 

 

The Liara romance was a major let down in both ME2 and 3. Apparently despite doing all she can to bring Shepard back from the dead she sure does her all to drive him away. In most of the conversations even in ME3 she seems cold and distant. I kind of felt she was meant to be the "canon" romance but could not help but think Bio changed their mind somewhere along the line. Also seems like femshep had generally more intimate discussions than maleshep, he felt rather woody at times.

[Mordokai]

Edit: If I find out she is in the next Mass Effect. have any references in the next mass effect, or there is an asari squadmate I quit. No more Bioware. Theres only so much I can take.

 

I'm sure the lack of your money will make Bioware reconsider their policy.

[KaiserShep]

The Liara romance was a major let down in both ME2 and 3. Apparently despite doing all she can to bring Shepard back from the dead she sure does her all to drive him away. In most of the conversations even in ME3 she seems cold and distant. I kind of felt she was meant to be the "canon" romance but could not help but think Bio changed their mind somewhere along the line. Also seems like femshep had generally more intimate discussions than maleshep...

 

I guess this is on account of never having played ME2 without Lair of the Shadow Broker, because I thoroughly enjoyed her ME2 content. She wasn't a part of the Normandy crew for that game, but she got a heck of a lot better treatment than the VS. It certainly didn't help that Liara is the only only companion to be seen in the prologue if you're on PS3.

 

As for ME3, I didn't get the impression that she was cold and distant, since there was some specific dialogue that seemed rather affectionate throughout the game. Of course, this may have to do with how I feel about femShep's chemistry with Liara over broShep. It only really gets awkward with the lock-in portion of the game after the Cerberus coup, rather than having it accurately reflect just how long these characters have been together.

 

he felt rather woody at times.

 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I've made peace with it. Even the ending. Yes the ending sucks, but then you're fighting against 20,000 invulnerable space godzillas and zombies who turn your populations into more space godzillas and more zombies. So how do you beat them? You build something you have no idea what it actually does. Okay fine. It's totally desperate. Why? Because the situation is totally desperate and no cycle before you has ever survived this massacre. Do you have any better ideas? It takes two years to build a dreadnought. You needed to build say about 20,000 of them in three years from 2083 to 2086. You need The Shepard. Yes I know: lame. Shepard is one of the Marvel X-men. Actually a super X-man or X-woman. Now this all works fine unless the galaxy is following Lex Luthor which can be the case if you're playing renegade-assh*** Shepard.

 

The only things I want to smack Bioware about the face are:

 

1) The dream sequences: dumb. They scream indoctrination. If you're going to have an indoctrination plot, then finish it. Also next time make these cut scenes and not interactive. That was stupid since there was only one path and no choice of where to go.

 

2) The female version of the protagonist deserves equal treatment. Don't kill off one of her love interests "for feels" especially when Dr Chakwas says there is a cure for Kepral's Syndrome, and have the other one cheat on her. This is why I have no sympathy for Miranda fans having "her cabin" occupied by Liara. Deal with it. I know, I'm a smart ass.

 

3) The ending... well, this sucked. The ending destroyed any illusion of what RPG endings are about. It stripped away the sugar coating and all of the fake heroism involved with a boss fight, kill the bad guy, destroy the monsters, and win (that would be the destroy ending with the gasp), and the other versions endings with sacrifice for the greater good. Because now in every RPG I'm going to see this ending underneath the coating. Dammit, I liked the illusions. 

 

The scoring to the games was great. Kudos to Jack Wall and Sam Hulick. Standing ovation for both of them. 

[Raizo]

At peace Never. Over it, yep.

This more or less.

Will I ever forgive Bioware? Only time will tell. I want to, I want to believe again, I want to live in a world where I am aloud to have hope.

Will I ever forget ME3? Never! This game almost single handedly permanently destroyed my love of gaming, you don't forget something like that.

Have I moved on? More or less. ME3 is over, the ME Trilogy is over, With the way ME3 ended Bioware more or less poured gasoline on ME1, ME2 and ME3 burnt everything they created down to ground. It's over. No point dwelling on anything prior to ME3 since none of it has any relevance anymore, time to look to the future.

[dreamgazer]

A water heater has immense destructive power.  A water heater is not a weapon.  Just knowing "It can make a big boom" is not the same as knowing what kind of weapon it is. Or how it can be utilized.

Run through the Mars archives section again, through the Hackett conversation. Pretty obvious that Liara knows she ain't building a water heater.

 

Yes.  But part of what Shepard was doing is trying to figure out what the MacGuffin is and why Saren wants it.  In ME3, otoh Shepard seems to care little for what the Crucible is or what it can do. (besides the highly generic "stop the Reapers")

"Destroy" and "wipe out" the Reapers, you mean.

In ME1, Shepard's job was like a detective, so inquiring about the purposefully vague MacGuffin was part of the job description. In ME3, Shepard pushed that responsibility over to scientific minds well above his/her capability who could raise red flags in dire situations, leaving the diplomacy, resistance building, logistics and resource gathering for the device's construction to humanity's avatar. I see no problem with this.

[Fixers0]

In ME1, Shepard's job was like a detective, so inquiring about the purposefully vague MacGuffin was part of the job description. In ME3, Shepard pushed that responsibility over to scientific minds well above his/her capability who could raise red flags in dire situations, leaving the diplomacy, resistance building, logistics and resource gathering for the device's construction to humanity's avatar. I see no problem with this.

 

I do actually, Shepard's a marine not a diplomat or a tactician, Shepard's role became increasingly exaggerated as the series went on. Furthermore, when a device in your narrative is of so crucial importance that it's purpose is to justify it's whole existance then unfortunantly handwaving you're not doing your narrative any good, quite the opposite.

[dreamgazer]

I do actually, Shepard's a marine not a diplomat or a tactician, Shepard's role became increasingly exaggerated as the series went on. Furthermore, when a device in your narrative is of so crucial importance that it's purpose is to justify it's whole existance then unfortunantly handwaving you're not doing your narrative any good, quite the opposite.

Good thing there are sharper minds overseeing the construction, then, and that it (mostly) justified its existence and functionality in the end. And yes, the carrier of the Prothean cipher, the savior of the Citadel, and the conqueror of the Collectors earned some clout when it came to organizing against the Reapers. Oh well.

[AlanC9]

@AlanC9 Getting low ems just to kill liara is bogus. It shouldn't have to be that way after all the work put into the game. We should have had the opportunity to kill her in ME1. Would of been interesting if she fought beside her mother if you brought her or had some confrontation with her like with Wrex.

So you wish that Bio had completely rewritten Liara enough so that Shepard would have had a reason to kill her? Why Liara and not Garrus? Or do you want to kill him too? And why do you want to kill Liara for things she didn't do?

[Dr. Megaverse]

This game almost single handedly permanently destroyed my love of gaming...

I have to agree. I've been stuck in a loop of playing ME, FO, and Skyrim now because I'm jaded against being disappointed again. I've also kept my promise to hold the wallet lol.

[Cknarf]

Yes I am.  My only gripe was the lack of action at the end. They really shouldn't have made the Suicide Mission so epic lol.

[von uber]

@AlanC9 Getting low ems just to kill liara is bogus. It shouldn't have to be that way after all the work put into the game. We should have had the opportunity to kill her in ME1. Would of been interesting if she fought beside her mother if you brought her or had some confrontation with her like with Wrex. Being forced to bring her to the final battle just to see her die in a low ems playthrough is again BIOWARE pushing liara. Cuz if you do that then you have to see her face one more time after choosing your color before credits roll. Heck, even in the rejection ending she appears. There's no end to her period. What gives BW? Might as well call it Asari Effect 3: Liara's Comeback

Edit: If I find out she is in the next Mass Effect. have any references in the next mass effect, or there is an asari squadmate I quit. No more Bioware. Theres only so much I can take.

Just out of interest, which squad mate would you have made unkillable throughout the trilogy to enable there to be at least a sensible amount of dialogue that could be written without needing a million variations?

Which ever one you choose, I will pick fault with it for. . Reasons.

I suspect sometimes that liara has become the conduit (ho ho) of people's feelings towards the games. On my current non-romance fairly cool relationship play through I certainly don't feel her forced on me in the slightest. Most of the interaction is voluntary.
Ho hum, people are strange.

[Rainbowhawk]

That sounds like more of an issue with the war asset system than the plot itself. The fact that multiplayer allows you to just heap on points through promotions is, I think, the real problem. But then, the same is true of the DLC's, which can net you hundreds of extra points themselves. I guess this is the problem with putting any kind of real details into the Crucible while also having to build the collective strength of your allies. Like, if you gather the most assets in your fighting force that the game allows, you could still get the worst ending, because you didn't gather enough wingnuts to hold the Crucible's reaper discombobulator together.

That's what made me think of and Idea to make the final battle more like the suicide mission. The war assets are divided into 3 categories, Fleet Strength, Ground strength, and Crucible strength. A weak fleet strength affects ground and crucible strength, weak or weakened ground strength affects the survival of the characters pushing on to the beam and Shepard's health when he gets to the citadel. And when it comes to the final choice, the condition of the Crucible will determine the ending result. Same 3 choices only perhaps in the best possible destroy ending there's a blink-and-you-miss-it moment that might hint that EDI and the Geth might have survived but barely.

[KaiserShep]

I do actually, Shepard's a marine not a diplomat or a tactician, Shepard's role became increasingly exaggerated as the series went on. Furthermore, when a device in your narrative is of so crucial importance that it's purpose is to justify it's whole existance then unfortunantly handwaving you're not doing your narrative any good, quite the opposite.

 

In fairness, Shepard is not actually drawing up tactics much in this game either. The battle plans are being conjured up by other leaders in the galaxy, like Primarch Victus, Admiral Hackett, the Council, etc.. Shepard's job is, and always has been, to run in, kill everything in sight and get out. Victus comes up with the idea of getting the krogan on board, and the only reason the Dalatrass complies is because Victus is the one applying the most pressure at the summit. Despite Shepard complaining about playing politician, he/she doesn't really do that very often. Where it does kind of get a bit crazy is with the geth/quarian conflict, but then Shepard would have failed if not for Koris and Tali to allow him/her to speak on their authority (of course there's also Legion, since Geth VI would happily just wipe them out regardless). And then of course, the entire final battle is being led by Hackett and Anderson, and in retrospect, Anderson was kind of dumb for sending the person who is to be leading the infiltration team on the Citadel right up the middle where resistance is thickest. Sure, just send the most important part of your plan through the death gauntlet.