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[Reorte]

That proves nothing. It commits two unforgivable internet crimes; it uses Youtube to prove or support an argument, and it uses in universe game logic.

Most of the defence of ME3 endings relies on that on in-universe game logic (certainly accepting that the Catalyst isn't spouting nonsense does).

There's equal chance for a "Big Brother" to be benign and egalitarian as much as to be controlling and autocratic. It's just trendy and fun to assume all "Big Brother"s would be Orwellian.

It inevitably involves restriction and control, no matter how benign. If people can still go off and have the freedom to do what they want then you've not got any sort of Big Brother.

[frylock23]

No, not really at peace with it.

 

I only played the pre-EC ending once, and it was enough. After that, I would only play the game as far the London FOB and then start over. The game was at least enjoyable up to that point.

 

The EC at least got me to the point where I could stomach letting the game end. I still rapidly click through everything that happens after the "magic" platform takes me up the brat and I'm not interested in anything he has to say. I just wait until I can march over and shoot the red cable so I can blow it all up.

 

The EC got me that far, but in terms of being happy with how they decided to end it? No. The ending made no sense with the rest of the trilogy in way.

[jros83]

Most of the defence of ME3 endings relies on that on in-universe game logic (certainly accepting that the Catalyst isn't spouting nonsense does).

It inevitably involves restriction and control, no matter how benign. If people can still go off and have the freedom to do what they want then you've not got any sort of Big Brother.

wasn't talking about ME3 endgins. Was talking about the reflexive knee-jerk "big brother is always bad" concept.

[Iakus]

wasn't talking about ME3 endgins. Was talking about the reflexive knee-jerk "big brother is always bad" concept.

 

"big brother is bad" is not exactly a new concept.

[Reorte]

wasn't talking about ME3 endgins. Was talking about the reflexive knee-jerk "big brother is always bad" concept.

I was merely using that as an aside. My point about Big Brother still stands.

[jros83]

"big brother is bad" is not exactly a new concept.

when did I say it was new....? lol

 

I said it's a knee-jerk reaction to assume it.

[Iakus]

when did I say it was new....? lol

 

I said it's a knee-jerk reaction to assume it.

It's an old, very well-known reaction.

 

Therefore if you're to somehow claim "This time it's different" it needs to be properly deconstructed.

[jros83]

It's an old, very well-known reaction.

 

Therefore if you're to somehow claim "This time it's different" it needs to be properly deconstructed.

I agree with you completely. Again I only ever said it is a knee-jerk reaction. In fact, more so today DUE to how old it is.

You seem to think I'm arguing with you when I have nothing to argue against lol, I'm agreeing.

[Iakus]

I agree with you completely. Again I only ever said it is a knee-jerk reaction. In fact, more so today DUE to how old it is.

You seem to think I'm arguing with you when I have nothing to argue against lol, I'm agreeing.

Oh, well, in that case

 

Carry on 

[jtrook]

After modding the ending, yes but Bioware has me weary on next entries. I would really need to see reviews first before I become the level of a fan I was before. 

[Mirthadrond]

At peace?  No.. not really.  In fact the more I dwell on the ending the more irritated I get.

 

Background:  I JUST finished my first ME3 play-through, after purchasing the game almost 2 years ago.   Yes, I kinda put it off because I'd read so many complaints about the ending I was hesitant to take my beloved Shepard down that road.  I didn't know what was going to happen, but I knew a lot of people were pissed at Bioware.

 

But - things being what they are, I finally decided to give it a run, and see what happens.

 

Well - I'm still scratching my head.  The ending was utterly horrid.  ( Even with EC on my first play)  Now I understand why everyone was complaining.....

 

 

I don't mind if they give me a 'choice' to sacrifice my character, for the greater good,  At least in DA:O I had 'options'.  I didn't 'have to die'.  But in ME3? I was given no choice.  Starbrat made it pretty clear all of them would lead to my death.

 

This is AFTER he give me his bizarre and completely illogical reason for the reapers existence.  To add insult to injury, I wasn't even allowed to argue with him.

 

I can go on.. the whole ending was such a major disappointment, I don't even want to play-through ME3 again, and I have 4 more characters from ME1&2 I can import.

 

So no.. I'm not at peace.  The wound is still fresh and after DA2 (ugh), ME3 (now) and SWTOR...  I'm skeptical Bioware can actually deliver. 

They clearly aren't the same company they used to be.

 

Needless to say.  No chance in hell I'll pre-order DA:I, or ME4.  I'll be like millions of other jaded gamers, waiting for the reviews to start coming in after it's released, then make my decision.   Even then, if the reviews aren't AMAZING, I wont be playing full price. 

 

 

 

[q5tyhj]

Yes. One of, if not THE, best games ever, and the problems with me3's ending may just be the single most exaggerated and overblown topic in the entire history of video games.

[AlanC9]

I don't mind if they give me a 'choice' to sacrifice my character, for the greater good,  At least in DA:O I had 'options'.  I didn't 'have to die'.  But in ME3? I was given no choice.  Starbrat made it pretty clear all of them would lead to my death.

What was your take on the meaning of the "breath clip"? Assuming you've seen it, of course.

@ forum regulars: let's hold off on discussing this ourselves until Mirthadrond has a chance to respond. We don't want to contaminate the sample.

[Display Name Owner]

I've noticed that I pretty much only post on these forums to complain about what I think went wrong, so I feel a need to point out that I do actually like a lot about the game. But all the problems with it are story based and that's less forgiveable than shoddy gameplay if you ask me. See ME2, the combat is actually relatively weak, but I still thought it was a great game (if only because I expected all the plotlines to go somewhere).

 

See? I'm complaining again. But I'm not too sorry, because I like to think the vitriol makes the devs take things on board.

 

In the end, ME3 has a lot of good things about it, several plot elements were a letdown, but whatever, I haven't played in months and I'm kind of done with it for the time being. Onwards and upwards, I just hope they take the story and lore a bit more seriously in the next one, which should hopefully be easier to do without the Reapers hanging over their heads.

[Iakus]

Yes. One of, if not THE, best games ever, and the problems with me3's ending may just be the single most exaggerated and overblown topic in the entire history of video games.

 

Can't argue with logic like that.

 

/sarcasm

[KaiserShep]

Personally, I think that with the exception of the revelation of the nature of the reapers, the citadel and relays, ME3 had some of the best major plot points of the series. Yeah yeah poor writing this and that, whatevs.

[Display Name Owner]

Personally, I think that with the exception of the revelation of the nature of the reapers, the citadel and relays, ME3 had some of the best major plot points of the series. Yeah yeah poor writing this and that, whatevs.

 

"Shepard I found a device that will kill all the Reapers and it's on Mars in the archives Humanity spent years exploring." Shame the most major plot point was one of the worst. And I don't even mind the idea of the Crucible, just how it was actually written in.

 

Plus, I didn't like the way the Geth were handled, or AIs in general, EDI was friggin' insufferable imo. Cerberus was way too prominent and instead of making it interesting they just went with indoctrination, as well as rendering the Collector Base thing meaningless. The focus on saving Earth felt forced. All my opinion obviously.

 

Not saying everything was bad by any means, the Tuchanka arc was great for one thing. Some big things just really weren't. ...In my opinion obviously.

[KaiserShep]

The Collector base was irrelevant the moment we were given the choice between keeping it and destroying it. It cannot be used to provide any real solution to the primary conflict, or else its loss would simply be an automatic fail state for the next game.

[Mordokai]

The Collector base was irrelevant the moment we were given the choice between keeping it and destroying it.

 

You'll have to elaborate on that some more.

 

And I mean this as in, curious. Not derogatory.

[dreamgazer]

For 95% of ME1, the Conduit could have been a giant candy bar or a scented candle, for all we knew.  

[themikefest]

The only thing the collector base did in ME3 was decide whether you can choose only destroy or only control if your ems was below 1750. Too bad it didn't effect high ems.

[KaiserShep]

You'll have to elaborate on that some more.

And I mean this as in, curious. Not derogatory.

Let's say that the Destruction of the Collector base prevents the Cerberus indoctrination. While that would be great, this presents an issue with how many forks BioWare can create in the overarching plot. Does TIM become an ally instead? How does this work if he can be an enemy in the alternate plot? Do entire missions involving them simply not exist? While I would love to have the story be so flexible in a more meaningful way, I don't think BioWare can realistically create two entire story paths like that.

I think this applies to the suicide mission as well. Big missions that determine the fate of so many characters should be left to the final chapter, in my opinion.

[Display Name Owner]

The Collector base was irrelevant the moment we were given the choice between keeping it and destroying it. It cannot be used to provide any real solution to the primary conflict, or else its loss would simply be an automatic fail state for the next game.

 

Can't deny that tbh. I get that there's only so much story branching Bioware can do, but that one really was a tease. I mean, saving or sparing the Council in ME1 gave you 3 different minor characters. Not much in the scheme of things, but it was a nice touch I thought, I wouldn't really demand any more. But the CB literally came down to either "we used the Collector base" or "we used the scraps of the Collector base somehow". Eh, I could let that one go if we weren't supposed to accept it for justification for Cerberus stealing the primary antagonist title, which shouldn't have happened in the first place imo.

[Mirthadrond]

What was your take on the meaning of the "breath clip"? Assuming you've seen it, of course.

@ forum regulars: let's hold off on discussing this ourselves until Mirthadrond has a chance to respond. We don't want to contaminate the sample.

 

My first choice was Destroy.  When I saw it, I was confused. 

 

Wait...  WHAT?? (breath scene)  What's this?  Am I alive??  Did I just die??  WTF??  It's over???!!!  GOD DAMN YOU BIOWARE!!!

 

Yeah, that's pretty much how it went down.

 

Then I reloaded my last save and picked the 'Synthesis" path.  That felt better... at least I didn't kill all the Geth and EDI.  I actually wept as EDI talked about how my sacrifice brought peace to the entire galaxy.

[Iakus]

My first choice was Destroy.  When I saw it, I was confused. 

 

Wait...  WHAT?? (breath scene)  What's this?  Am I alive??  Did I just die??  WTF??  It's over???!!!  GOD DAMN YOU BIOWARE!!!

 

Yeah, that's pretty much how it went down.

 

 

Hey, Alan, I guess it's not as blatantly obvious  as all that after all