1005 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

I'm largely fine with it after the EC. It helps if you think of the Catalyst as being hacked by the Crucible to act as its mouthpiece instead of it being some godlike being that is willing to parlay... It helps that there is a good amount of evidence for that being the case.

[Obadiah]

>>Are you at peace with ME3?
Did we have a fight?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 After EC, yes, I am at peace with it. That's not to say I think it's flawless or anything, but I don't see it as much better or much worse than what came before it, which were damned fun games in themselves anyway.

[Barquiel]

The story may not be great, but Bioware did a decent job telling it across at least half the game...and despite its flaws, ME3 had some great moments. There are many things I thought ME3 did well.

The ending...I still don't like it, but I made my peace with it. The EC certainly helped. I think the epilogue was well done (Hackett's narration gives the trilogy the ending it deserves, and it's nice to see Thessia and Earth rebuilt), and while we get no reunion scene, at least it is implied that it can happen in the destroy ending.

[masster blaster]

Not really. In all honesty nobody is from far as i can tell. some are satisfied, others are pissed, or don't care.

[SporkFu]

If I were at peace with it, I might be able to stop playing it and get to the other dozen or so games I haven't even touched yet, heh... so I guess I'm not at peace with it, err, from a certain point of view. 

[Farangbaa]

I've never not been at peace with the ending. Nor have I ever really disliked it. I don't care Shepard dies. In fact, I think it's better that way. Had he lived I would've wanted to continue his story. 

 

I also love the Catalyst. I really, really do. Ever since speaking to Sovereign on Virmire I had only 2 questions:

 

Why do you do what you do?

Who made you?

 

ME3 answered both questions. Granted, it created a new one (where does the Catalyst come from?), but for that we got DLC. (you could try to answer 'where do the Leviathan come from?' but you really don't want to get into the biology needed to create a massive, hyper intelligent mind controlling aquatic animal. Would be even more messy than the Krogan)

[masster blaster]

I've never not been at peace with the ending. Nor have I ever really disliked it. I don't care Shepard dies. In fact, I think it's better that way. Had he lived I would've wanted to continue his story. 

 

I also love the Catalyst. I really, really do. Ever since speaking to Sovereign on Virmire I had only 2 questions:

 

Why do you do what you do?

Who made you?

 

ME3 answered both questions. Granted, it created a new one (where does the Catalyst come from?), but for that we got DLC. (you could try to answer 'where do the Leviathan come from?' but you really don't want to get into the biology needed to create a massive, hyper intelligent mind controlling aquatic animal. Would be even more messy than the Krogan)

So you are not at peace with the ending, yet don't care, don't care about Shepard, yet will play as Shepard if the story continued?

 

Catalyst created multiple questions, and controversial to what Nazara, and Harbinger have been saying from the get go. catalyst logic is organics and synthetics will always be at war with each other. It continued this war because the only solution was to harvest advance organic life, by turning those organics into hybrids. half synthetic and half organic. It used synthetics to cause wars with organics, and even turned organics into mindless husk if they didn't have the right DNA to become a Reaper.

 

Harbinger and Nazara did not really view organics as anything special and basically go against all that the catalyst tells Shepard. If it has control of the Reapers, does it control what they do, and say? For if that is the case then why are the Reapers disobeying it's orders? Do they take it too far, or can they bend their creators rules, for " The created will always rebel against it's creators" so can that be the case?

 

So many question never to be answered.

[Bardox9]

I initially responded to the proposed question with a simple "No", but on reflection I think this deserves a full response. So, here goes. Despite resisting the idea at first, I have become an IT believer. Perhaps I am giving the bioware writers too much credit, but when I look at all the "hinky" things in the ending (even with the EC) I can't believe these are errors and oversights and plot holes. I just feel the ending was incomplete. Left me with questions where as the previous titles where definite and clear cut. Same for the DA series. There was certainty at the end. Something the ME3 ending sorely lacked.

 

I can no longer bring myself to believe that anything after the Harbinger blast is anything but a series of last ditch indoctrination attempts by Harbinger to turn Shepard into a Reaper agent. The mounds of bodies in the area Shepard "wakes up" in that were not there before. All of which are multiple copies of the armors Ashley an Kaidan wore in ME1 where Shepard had to decide which of them lived and which of them died. Prior to this moment everyone running toward the beam is vaporized on contact. There are no bodies to be piled up and no one we see is wearing armor that the mounds of bodies have. Harbinger has ample time to incinerate Shepard, an even destroy the Normandy if your EMS is not high enough, but doesn't. The blast that does eventually hit Shepard not only doesn't vaporize him/her, but Shepard survives this beam that shreds dreadnoughts. This can only mean that Shepard has better armor than a warship OR Harbinger weakened the blast so it would not kill him/her. Looking back over every encounter we have with harbinger, I can't help but notice it isn't trying to kill Shepard. It is obsessed with indoctrinating him/her. Why? I can only guess. Perhaps Harbinger, like TIM, sees Shepard as a symbol of humanity and a beacon the other races would follow. A better agent change and unity you will never find in the MEU. Or maybe it just thinks the Commander is cute. Don't know. Don't really care. But it is clear it doesn't want Shepard dead.

 

Once Shepard is on his/her feet, the sound we hear is the same as the back ground noise from the dream sequences. It's been said that it's just the sound the beam makes, but they are too similar for me to believe it is just coincidence. Then there is the armor and weapon change and the unlimited ammo for a pistol I never use that has some how materialized beside Shepard. The armor is completely fried and yet the radio still works perfectly and yet Shepard doesn't say "This is... this Shepard. I'm still kicking. Almost... to the beam." The slowing of time when the husks and marauder attack also points to not being real (as much as a work of fiction can be anyway). Once up the beam to the Citadel, we have a series of rooms that don't match anything we've ever seen in Citadel designs before, but match up to some very memorable areas in past missions. The collect base, the Shadow Brokers engine room, and TIM's office. Anderson says he followed you up and yet is somehow ahead of us on a path that is no where to be found as Shepard moves toward some random unguarded console that is supposed to be exactly what we are looking for. The master control console is in the council chamber which this area is not. Why would there be another such console and what are the odds Shepard would come out so close to it?

 

Anderson says he has found this console and though we can see the console from the top of the first staircase we cannot see Anderson. You can blame this on a mapping error, but it never happens on any other part of the game. Then there is the sudden appearance of TIM. Again, another thing that materializes from no where. This is not star trek. People don't just appear from out of no where. And now TIM has Reaper powers? I don't care what kind of implants Cerberus has given him or what "upgrades" the Reapers may do to him, you don't just get biotic powers from a gizmo jammed into your skull. It has to be part of you from birth. Even in the books Harper never had any type of biotic talents. Then there is the infamous bullet wound. Anderson gets shot, but Shepard gets the bullet hole? The whole scene is symbolism depicting Shepard's internal struggle between the indoctrination and the part of his/her mind that has been fighting it. Afterwards, despite never being contacted by Shepard, Hackett somehow knows he/she is the one that opened the ward arms and calls out to Shepard over the miracle radio when the Crucible doesn't do anything once attached to the Citadel.

 

Next we have star kid, or whatever you want to call it, that is little more than a mass effect field that walks and talks. Every other encounter with any other NPC through out the series Shepard questions them on every possible subject. He/She wants to know who you are, where you're coming from, where you're going, where you've been, what you've been doing, and who you've been doing it with. What's that? Who is this? What does this mean? But not here. He/She just blindly excepts everything this self proclaimed Reaper intelligence says as truth. Another sign this is a ream sequence. In a dream, you don't question what you see or hear. You just go with it.

 

It is clear from the start this thing is twisting words trying to get Shepard to choose either the Control or Synthesis options and that Destroy would only lead to disaster. That organics and synthetics can never coexists which Shepard proves that idea to be wrong (assuming you manage to broker peace between the Quarians and the Geth). Control is the path of TIM and Synthesis is the path of Saren, both of whom are proven to be indoctrinated. From the moment Shepard speaks to Sovereign on Virmir, his sole purpose is to destroy the Reapers. Not join them. Destroy is the only true path for Shepard to take. When shooting the power cables, Shepard is suddenly feeling no pain and marching forward. When Shepard takes his/her gasp, he/she is laying in London rubble. You can even see a Mako tank in the background. How does he/she go from getting blown up on the Citadel to being back to where Harbinger blasted him/her? The only logical conclusion is that Shepard was never on the Citadel. That the last 20 some odd minutes has all been in his/her head. If this is true then Anderson (an probably TIM) didn't die, The Citadel arms didn't open, the Crucible never docked so it's couldn't have fired, and the Citadel and relay network and the Reapers themselves have not been destroyed. The battle is still going on and from the looks of things, the Reapers are going to win the fight.

 

In ME2 it is possible that everyone, even Shepard, dies on the collector base. Bioware cannons this so that, despite falling, Shepard makes it back to the Normandy and survives to ME3. With this precedence, it can be assumed that no matter what you decide the best course is, bioware will force destroy on us as they did with Shepard surviving the collector base. That I have no problem with since it is the path my main Shepard (and I think most of us) chooses, but the beginning of ME4 (or another free DLC) must show how the Ward arms are opened, what the Crucible actually does once connected, and what becomes of our beloved Commander Shepard should he/she survive or die. As long as they do explain this brainfart of a rewrite, I still wish they had kept the original ending with the TIM boss battle and the dark energy build up they they made such a big deal of in ME1 and 2 but fine, then I will be more than happy to sink more money into this epic tale. If they don't, I will have to accept it as a FU to the fans and won't buy another thing from bioware. ME or otherwise.

 

Am I at peace with ME3, no. On there own, each of the titles are amazing. As a trilogy, this ending remaining unresolved is just a slap in the face. I had hoped the Citadel DLC would put this to rest. Shepard is replaced with Coates or Anderson who you rush to the beam, fight your way through the Citadel to the master control console, open the arms, the Crucible docks, you fight off TIM while the energy builds up, it fires, the cascade of relay explosions go off, and the Reapers are soundly defeated. But no. We get an evil twin and a house party. While I love the series, the characters, and the mythology... peace is the one thing about ME3 I do not feel.

[Invisible Man]

I think I've stated this before... many, many times. all things considered, I really didn't think the ending was as bad as other's have said (I did the pre ec ending first, just fyi), it was filled with plot & lore holes, true; and honestly the whole ending didn't really fit the rest of the game. but just the ending all by it's lonesome, there've been worse endings. though when you try to tie the ending to the rest of the game, and the rest of the series, it just doesn't seem to fit, to me at least. so I never really felt that burning rage people seemed to get, I guess being able to compartmentalize experiences efficiently, and remain detached, well; it tends to help there too. now, mass effect 3 was still a good game, almost a great one, it did fall a tad short there if I'm being honest, and I'd say I got my... what, $40 of enjoyment out of it (I almost never buy games hot off the shelf). so I'd say I've always been happy with mass effect 3, though that hasn't stopped me from using MEHEM. it just helps me like it a little more I suppose.

[Ribosome]

lol yea otherwise i definitely wouldn't be wasting my life going on here to complain about it every day

[Farangbaa]

So you are not at peace with the ending, yet don't care, don't care about Shepard, yet will play as Shepard if the story continued?

 

Read the post you've quoted again.

 

 

Catalyst created multiple questions, and controversial to what Nazara, and Harbinger have been saying from the get go. catalyst logic is organics and synthetics will always be at war with each other. It continued this war because the only solution was to harvest advance organic life, by turning those organics into hybrids. half synthetic and half organic. It used synthetics to cause wars with organics, and even turned organics into mindless husk if they didn't have the right DNA to become a Reaper.

 

Nothing they say contradicts what the Catalyst says. They impose Order upon Chaos, exactly what the Catalyst is doing.

 

 

Chaos. The created will always rebel against their creators, but we found a way to stop that from happening. A way to restore order.

 

 

 

Harbinger and Nazara did not really view organics as anything special and basically go against all that the catalyst tells Shepard. If it has control of the Reapers, does it control what they do, and say? For if that is the case then why are the Reapers disobeying it's orders? Do they take it too far, or can they bend their creators rules, for " The created will always rebel against it's creators" so can that be the case?

 

How do they go against what the Catalyst says?

 

And I'm fairly certain the Reapers are independant, as far they know and not aware of the Catalyst's existence. The Catalyst's controls them in as much as that they do what they are intended to do (by perfect programming or perfect indoctrination, whatever floats your boat). It's not pressing buttons on a controller (maybe it could, but it doesn't have to)

[AlanC9]

 

And I'm fairly certain the Reapers are independant, as far they know and not aware of the Catalyst's existence. The Catalyst's controls them in as much as that they do what they are intended to do (by perfect programming or perfect indoctrination, whatever floats your boat). It's not pressing buttons on a controller (maybe it could, but it doesn't have to)

 

Control supports this interpretation. If the Catalyst really could order the Reapers around directly, then all the mucking about with the relays would be unnecessary. Just swap out the Catalyst personality for Shepard's, and you're done.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I don't think IT is true, or good, but it's makes more sense than what we got. 

I just want a giant-mega-space-super-duper-destructo-beam. We get an a medal. Crowd cheers. Krogan roar. Happy times. 

Call me what you will, but an ending like that ends the story a thousand times better than the Starbrat sequence did. 

[masster blaster]

It has been causing chaos, to further prove it's own logic, which it already has messed up. It's idea is to harvest organics when they are ready, use synthetics to help wipe out organics. The only chaos there is, is the catalyst and the Reapers. That is not a solution to justify it's own ends, it's pure madness.

 

But that is the point. It tries to justify it's own logic and reason, but what the Reapers have been doing, is far beyond ANY thing in what it has been "trying to do".

[AlanC9]

I don't think IT is true, or good, but it's makes more sense than what we got. 

I just want a giant-mega-space-super-duper-destructo-beam. We get an a medal. Crowd cheers. Krogan roar. Happy times. 

Call me what you will, but an ending like that ends the story a thousand times better than the Starbrat sequence did. 

 

I can see how  Bio just throwing up their hands and leaving the Reapers making no sense would be better for some of us. Would'nt have liked it myself, but tastes differ.

[masster blaster]

Control supports this interpretation. If the Catalyst really could order the Reapers around directly, then all the mucking about with the relays would be unnecessary. Just swap out the Catalyst personality for Shepard's, and you're done.

To what ends? Harbinger view changes? We don't know, we only see the other Reapers do labor work. Ideas may have not changed, but orders might have. That does not mean Shepard nor the catalyst has any control over the Reapers every being right? Or maybe it does, but then why have harbinger let Shepard live? plot armor? maybe, yet everything about ME3's ending up to the last 20 minutes makes no sense, so i have not a clue.

[AlanC9]

To what ends? Harbinger view changes? We don't know, we only see the other Reapers do labor work. Ideas may have not changed, but orders might have. That does not mean Shepard nor the catalyst has any control over the Reapers every being right? Or maybe it does, but then why have harbinger let Shepard live? plot armor? maybe, yet everything about ME3's ending up to the last 20 minutes makes no sense, so i have not a clue.

 

Ends don't enter into it. I'm talking about capabilities. The only way for the Sheplyst to control the Reapers is with the blue energy wave. If the Catalyst had any kind of real-time control over Reapers, the Sheplyst could use that.

[Farangbaa]

To what ends? Harbinger view changes? We don't know, we only see the other Reapers do labor work. Ideas may have not changed, but orders might have. That does not mean Shepard nor the catalyst has any control over the Reapers every being right? Or maybe it does, but then why have harbinger let Shepard live? plot armor? maybe, yet everything about ME3's ending up to the last 20 minutes makes no sense, so i have not a clue.

 

You see the Reapers as fully developed personalities with wants and needs. I see them more as beings with a singular goal to which they are fully dedicated... just like the Catalyst

 

In Control you replace the Catalyst with Shepard

[masster blaster]

Ends don't enter into it. I'm talking about capabilities. The only way for the Sheplyst to control the Reapers is with the blue energy wave. If the Catalyst had any kind of real-time control over Reapers, the Sheplyst could use that.

That's the thing though. We have no  idea how. Everything is up for debate, and has such has been going on for more than 2 years now. 

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I can see how  Bio just throwing up their hands and leaving the Reapers making no sense would be better for some of us. Would'nt have liked it myself, but tastes differ.

I was using hyperbole, but the point remains. A good ending ties up the story. The conflict is resolved. It doesn't leave questions. 

Having a "happy" ending makes it easy to do as such. It doesn't need a huge party, or an award ceremony, or anything like that. But the conflict must be resolved cleanly. 

[Farangbaa]

That's the thing though. We have no  idea how. Everything is up for debate, and has such has been going on for more than 2 years now. 

 

Exactly as intended

[Farangbaa]

I was using hyperbole, but the point remains. A good ending ties up the story. The conflict is resolved. It doesn't leave questions. 

Having a "happy" ending makes it easy to do as such. It doesn't need a huge party, or an award ceremony, or anything like that. But the conflict must be resolved cleanly. 

 

Why must it be resolved cleanly? 

[masster blaster]

You see the Reapers as fully developed personalities with wants and needs. I see them more as beings with a singular goal to which they are fully dedicated... just like the Catalyst

 

In Control you replace the Catalyst with Shepard

Which makes no sense. It offers Shepard to control the Reapers because it's own being can't solve the problem but Shepard can? makes sense don't get me wrong, but this goes against it's own logic. organics and synthetics are always going to be at war with each other, yet offers Shepard to control the Reapers out of the generosity of it's processing unit?

 

Also the goal is to harvest organic life, no matter the cost. We seen what has happened from the Prothean war, and the current war at hand. It's pretty clear that is the goal. The catalyst however tries to sway Shepard that it's all legit.