287 réponses à ce sujet

[Remix-General Aetius]

And Legion was dead too.

Is this maybe a joke thread that I'm just not getting?

 

probably. your humor heuristics still lack an expert system.

 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'll go with no evidence over obviously fabricated evidence, thanks.

 

Ok. I don't know why you're saying this. 

 

There is no fabricated evidence. The question of the matter is whether or not the problem is a relevant issue to be solved at the moment of the Crucible activation. Not whether he's right or not. I'm still on the side of the ending haters, but to be succinct, the Catalyst is being 100% truthful at everything he does say. Does he say everything? Is he engaging in doublespeak? It's a possibility. But whether or not he's being devious or not does not affect that what he does tell you concerning his prerogative is 100% correct. His depictions of events on the other hand is flawed, specifically of Synthesis.

[Iakus]

Ok. I don't know why you're saying this. 

 

There is no fabricated evidence. The question of the matter is whether or not the problem is a relevant issue to be solved at the moment of the Crucible activation. Not whether he's right or not. I'm still on the side of the ending haters, but to be succinct, the Catalyst is being 100% truthful at everything he does say. Does he say everything? Is he engaging in doublespeak? It's a possibility. But whether or not he's being devious or not does not affect that what he does tell you concerning his prerogative is 100% correct. His depictions of events on the other hand is flawed, specifically of Synthesis.

I see these two as the same thing.  If the Catalyst is wrong, then there is no problem, and therefore the problem is irrelevant.  Millions of years of slaughter due to some glitchy computer.  Talk about your tragic farce!

 

The Catalyst may believe what it is saying.  But its using its own interference in the development of AIs to support its own theory.  You can't get an accurate measurement if the Catalyst's thumb is constantly on the scale.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Millions of years of slaughter due to some glitchy computer.

 

So, he's actually right?

[Iakus]

Only in the "Yo Dawg" sense

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Only in the "Yo Dawg" sense

 

Thing is, another AI with that much strength and without the interest in preserving organic life (flawed though the Catalyst's solution may have been) would have made the Catalyst/Reapers look like teddy bears. The Reapers used to leave the galaxy altogether, let life flourish for some time, and only harvest sapient species. Another AI could have finished the first cycle wiping out organic life entirely and sitting on top of the galaxy forever to ensure it never springs up and that would have been the end of it. So the "Yo Dawg" meme is not entirely accurate.

 

And yet it is mostly accurate, enough to prove that the creation of such an AI has happened once (and can therefore happen again).

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The catalyst and others prove that the creation of sentient artificial intelligence is pure hubris. If any accidently occur, they should be destroyed immediately. Anyone who willfully constructs an sentient AI is insane.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The catalyst and others prove that the creation of sentient artificial intelligence is pure hubris. If any accidently occur, they should be destroyed immediately. Anyone who willfully constructs an sentient AI is insane.

 

What? Why??  Quantum-computers with the ability to reason would solve a lot of problems!

[dreamgazer]

What? Why??  Quantum-computers with the ability to reason would solve a lot of problems!

Likely including the inefficiency and idiocy of organic lives.

Just imagine what an AI built to oversee the environment by any means necessary would do to humans.

[Invisible Man]

Likely including the inefficiency and idiocy of organic lives.

Just imagine what an AI built to oversee the environment by any means necessary would do to humans.

that brings back memories.

back on topic... Edi's toasted & roasted in destroy, though you'd think spaceships and quarians would be too, assuming you didn't have the quarians offed earlier in the story line.

[masster blaster]

Edi is dead, as are the geth if you let them live, and all synthetics life, which include Shepard's yet somehow survives.

 

If you think about the Ending in Destroy another way then ya sure why not. But yet EDI is dead, unless you think otherwise.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Likely including the inefficiency and idiocy of organic lives.

Just imagine what an AI built to oversee the environment by any means necessary would do to humans.

 

True, but the trick would be to anticipate those kinds of problems and prevent them preemptively. Humans can spend years, even lifetimes trying (and failing) to do what an AI could do in seconds. How long do we avoid that out of fear of potential conflict?

[masster blaster]

True, but the trick would be to anticipate those kinds of problems and prevent them preemptively. Humans can spend years, even lifetimes trying (and failing) to do what an AI could do in seconds. How long do we avoid that out of fear of potential conflict?

Ah last i checked the catalyst is an AI, and look how long it took it to solve a problem. The Geth took hundreds of years, and Edi and the geth had help in solving their problems. So neither would do well, unless they work together.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Ah last i checked the catalyst is an AI, and look how long it took it to solve a problem. The Geth took hundreds of years, and Edi and the geth had help in solving their problems. So neither would do well, unless they work together.

 

It's not about "solving problems" so much crunching numbers astronomically higher than any human can reasonably compute.

[masster blaster]

It's not about "solving problems" so much crunching numbers astronomically higher than any human can reasonably compute.

That is true, yet doesn't mean there can be an error along the way. Ai's and humans are not perfect, no matter how any side would argue. Each makes mistakes, and astronomically higher it goes for them for sure, yet there can always be that one error. rare it might be, but ya i understand.

[themikefest]

The robot is destroyed along with all the other machines. No big loss. The important part is the reapers are destroyed. Good enough for me.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

True, but the trick would be to anticipate those kinds of problems and prevent them preemptively. Humans can spend years, even lifetimes trying (and failing) to do what an AI could do in seconds. How long do we avoid that out of fear of potential conflict?

 

You don't necessarily require an AI to do that though. A powerful enough computer could do it on its own.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

You don't necessarily require an AI to do that though. A powerful enough computer could do it on its own.

 

Yes, but computers' inability to "think outside the box" so to speak is always going to be a limitation there. You see it when Microsoft Word underlines things that are actually grammatically correct, or when background checks on someone with a common first and last name return information on someone else entirely who just happens to have the same name.

 

Granted, those aren't very good examples, because we're not completely sure what capabilities and limitations quantum-computers will pose until they become more prevalent. But I'll wager that the need will arise sometime down the line for CPUs to reason and make their own judgement with the massive pools of data we will require them to work with.

[Iakus]

Thing is, another AI with that much strength and without the interest in preserving organic life (flawed though the Catalyst's solution may have been) would have made the Catalyst/Reapers look like teddy bears. The Reapers used to leave the galaxy altogether, let life flourish for some time, and only harvest sapient species. Another AI could have finished the first cycle wiping out organic life entirely and sitting on top of the galaxy forever to ensure it never springs up and that would have been the end of it. So the "Yo Dawg" meme is not entirely accurate.

 

And yet it is, enough to prove that the creation of such an AI has happened once (and can therefore happen again).

 

All it proves is that once, a powerful, glitchy AI came about and wiped out advanced organic and synthetic life for a good long time in a localized part fo the galaxy.

 

However: we don't know that they purged advanced life from the entire galaxy.  Given their harvests "only" last a few centuries it seems reasonable they do not comb the entire Mily Way.  Nor do they purge other galaxies.  The Reapers may very well not be the biggest fish in the pond.

 

In addition, we know the Leviathans escaped extinction, demonstrating for all thier advanced tech, they are fallible (if their missing Ilos didn't demonstrate that already) 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

All it proves is that once, a powerful, glitchy AI came about and wiped out advanced organic and synthetic life for a good long time in a localized part fo the galaxy.
 
However: we don't know that they purged advanced life from the entire galaxy.  Given their harvests "only" last a few centuries it seems reasonable they do not comb the entire Mily Way.  Nor do they purge other galaxies. 
 
In addition, we know the Leviathans escaped extinction, demonstrating for all thier advanced tech, they are fallible (if their missing Ilos didn't demonstrate that already)

 
Think you missed my point, though.

 

What I'm saying is -- and your post here actually seems to agree with me -- the creation of the Catalyst/Reapers prove that the creation of an AI/AIs with the power to wipe out organics is possible ... however, the Catalyst/Reapers are not really an example because they were created to "preserve" organic life where other AI would not have been, and that stopped them from being much worse. Without that mandate, the genocide of organic species would not have had to be as slow and careful, they would have never left the galaxy for dark-space so organic life could flourish, and there would be nothing to stop them from just steamrolling over everything (and not miss stuff like the Leviathan survivors or secret facilities like Ilos). Organic life probably would have never made it past the first cycle. So, that mandate from the Leviathans probably stopped them from becoming much worse. Just imagine if that gambling-AI on the Citadel had the Catalyst/Reapers' power.

 

The Reapers may very well not be the biggest fish in the pond.

Is that supposed to be reassuring?

 

 

To clarify: I'm not here to argue that the creation of a worse AI is in any way certain, but it's not some kind of non-issue that a lot of folks make it out to be. As it relates to the end of ME3, it's actually a problem of immediate relevance, seeing as how you seek to deal with the future threat is exactly how you deal with the immediate one (all-powerful AI must be destroyed, must be controlled, or must be embraced).

[Iakus]

 
Think you missed my point, though.

 

What I'm saying is -- and your post here actually seems to agree with me -- the creation of the Catalyst/Reapers prove that the creation of an AI/AIs with the power to wipe out organics is possible ... however, the Catalyst/Reapers are not really an example because they were created to "preserve" organic life where other AI would not have been, and that stopped them from being much worse. Without that mandate, the genocide of organic species would not have had to be as slow and careful, they would have never left the galaxy for dark-space so organic life could flourish, and there would be nothing to stop them from just steamrolling over everything (and not miss stuff like the Leviathan survivors or secret facilities like Ilos). Organic life probably would have never made it past the first cycle. So, that mandate from the Leviathans probably stopped them from becoming much worse. Just imagine if that gambling-AI on the Citadel had the Catalyst/Reapers' power.

 

Is that supposed to be reassuring?

 

Sure there are synthetics that can wipe out organics.  But that misses the point that there's organics that can wipe out organics.  And they have proven to be even more willing to do so, and not just with advanced life. 

 

A krogan with a railgun to me is more a threat to all organic life than a Reaper.

 

As to the bigger fish thing.  It's not supposed to be reassuring or terrifying.  It simply is.  The Reapers were the big dogs in this particular corner of the galaxy.  But who knows what else is out there?

[dreamgazer]

The Reapers may very well not be the biggest fish in the pond.

 

Bonus points to the endings that keep the Reapers around then, I guess?

 

I certainly hope there aren't, though, and I don't really think this universe lends itself to larger threats.  I have the feeling the Reapers and these "bigger fish" would've rubbed elbows at some point across billions of years of existence.  Let's leave it at the Leviathans hiding out in their watery depths.

[Jukaga]

It's not about "solving problems" so much crunching numbers astronomically higher than any human can reasonably compute.

This doesn't imply self-awareness or determination, just a really powerful calculator. And I'm ok with that. Even one that 'seems' intelligent due to a personality expert system interface, but to create a mechanical god would be the height of stupidity and would seal our doom.

[Jukaga]

Bonus points to the endings that keep the Reapers around then, I guess?

 

I certainly hope there aren't, though, and I don't really think this universe lends itself to larger threats.  I have the feeling the Reapers and these "bigger fish" would've rubbed elbows at some point across billions of years of existence.  Let's leave it at the Leviathans hiding out in their watery depths.

I think it's inevitable that there are greater terrors than the Reapers out there, which makes control the most responsible ending Shepard can choose. I could see having a few thousand 2 kilometer long dreadnoughts being quite useful once they are converted from Reapers to Guardians.

[General TSAR]

Sexbot had been permanently taken offline.

 

Now it makes a perfect lamp.