287 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Or once the Geth found out Commander Shepherd killed Legion and their best shot at sentience they'd continue the attack.

Depends on how this rewritten scene goes down. Killing Legion on the spot should not allow you to gain the geth as assets.

[dreamgazer]

No it was meant to be used against Reapers.  it's designed to target synthetic life.  Or at the very least, it can't be refined enough to do just that, regardless of EMS score.

 

What impact are you talking about?  Humans getting fried?  Buildings destroyed?  That tells me nothing about the state of other synthetics

 

They're also all "synthetic life"

 

The effects of Control and the Catalyst stating that the Crucible isn't entirely intact, claiming it won't target just the Reapers, says otherwise.

 

The other things are hinged on opposing outlooks that neither you nor I can prove and have been left to interpretation, outside of the fact that things keep moving after the wave hits (no noteworthy residual damage from other synthetic lives getting shut down), that other "fatalities" weren't mentioned in the epilogue slides, and that the Crucible's purpose is engineered towards dealing with the Reapers---not overloading all synthetics.  

 

"Technology you rely on will be affected, but those who survive should have little difficulty repairing the damage."

[dreamgazer]

Which means it should destroy a lot more than it does.

To destroy anything with Reaper code it would have to log on to every computer system (most if not all of which will be completely alien to it) and be able to completely analyse everything running on it (and possibly just stored and not actually running). The only slightly feasible route would be if every bit of code the Reapers write, including their own, has a destruct on command ability that can be externally triggered, but then there would be no reason for anything else to get damaged. Moving beyond that to "all AI" is about as plausible as Synthesis.

I can just about accept that there could be something in certain bits of Reaper hardware that could be exploited.

 

I don't think so, considering there are a very limited number of AIs with Reaper tech embedded within them.  

 

AI? Check. Reaper signature? Check. Not complicated, but I do buy that the limited knowledge they've got on the Reapers could keep it from being refined beyond that point.

[KaiserShep]

Liara will have to play with Glyph's settings again, since it's going to call everyone in her cabin Shadow Broker again.

[Iakus]

The effects of Control and the Catalyst stating that the Crucible isn't entirely intact, claiming it won't target just the Reapers, says otherwise.

 

The other things are hinged on opposing outlooks that neither you nor I can prove and have been left to interpretation, outside of the fact that things keep moving after the wave hits (no noteworthy residual damage from other synthetic lives getting shut down), that other "fatalities" weren't mentioned in the epilogue slides, and that the Crucible's purpose is engineered towards dealing with the Reapers---not overloading all synthetics.  

 

"Technology you rely on will be affected, but those who survive should have little difficulty repairing the damage."

Then why does a "not entirely intact" Crucible allow Control of other tech?

 

Again the Crucible was built with the intent of being used against the Reapers.  The Catalyst never at any point says that targeting Reapers is its express function. 

 

So yeah, show me an AI being repaired and I'll believe other AIs survived.  Otherwise I'll just file it next to indoctrination Theory

[dreamgazer]

It never stated targeting all synthetics is its primary function, either, only that a not-entirely intact Crucible can't explicitly target the Reapers with the red wave, which suggests that it is the device's function. There's one constant among each and every ending. 

And I don't care where you "file" it, Iakus, but you can reach negative interpretations of just about anything with the right mindset.

[Iakus]

It never stated targeting all synthetics is its primary function, either, only that a not-entirely intact Crucible can't explicitly target the Reapers with the red wave, which suggests that it is the device's function. There's one constant among each and every ending. 

And I don't care where you "file" it, Iakus, but you can reach negative interpretations of just about anything with the right mindset.

 

Especially when I don't use headcanon.

[dreamgazer]

Especially when I don't use headcanon.

 

You still are, though.

[Iakus]

You still are, though.

I'm taking the Catalyst's words at face value, not looking for some potential weasel-out Bioware may have left.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Only it's obvious that the wave isn't like fire, unless it's entirely erratic like in low-EMS.  

 

It's closer to an overload surge that can be refined down to Reaper signatures at the highest level. We're able to detect and differentiate between tech signals today, after all.

 

Reaper-tech isn't signals. It's hardware.

 

When Weekes was interviewed about EDI surviving Destroy in the original cut, he said that he argued she should have been destroyed because her blue-box is made from Reaper parts (hardware), and when he did the EC she dies after all. What the geth adapt is not Reaper hardware. It's software. So if it targets software, EDI should survive. If it targets hardware, the geth should survive (and that plays to the previous issue I raised -- I can understand targeting signals, but targeting specific type of hardware is like the "targeted library fire" in terms of believability). Neither survive.

 

And then there's also the issue of this quote:

 

 

"Technology you rely on will be affected, but those who survive should have little difficulty repairing the damage."

 

It doesn't single out Reaper-tech, but more broadly, "Technology."

 

At which point, my mass data-wipe theory would fit adequately.

[dreamgazer]

I'm taking the Catalyst's words at face value, not looking for some potential weasel-out Bioware may have left.

 
You've taken the language and visual information and gone as pessimistic as you can go with it, especially the unseen gaps. 
 
That's another form of headcanon. 
 

Reaper-tech isn't signals. It's hardware.
 
When Weekes was interviewed about EDI surviving Destroy in the original cut, he said that he argued she should have been destroyed because her blue-box is made from Reaper parts (hardware), and when he did the EC she dies after all. What the geth adapt is not Reaper hardware. It's software. So if it targets software, EDI should survive. If it targets hardware, the geth should survive (and that plays to the previous issue I raised -- I can understand targeting signals, but targeting specific type of hardware is like the "targeted library fire" in terms of believability). Neither survive.
 
And then there's also the issue of this quote:
 
 
 
It doesn't single out Reaper-tech, but more broadly, "Technology."
 
At which point, my mass data-wipe theory would fit adequately.

 
Why wouldn't it target anything that looks like a Reaper, both hardware and software?
 
Alas, I'm willing to concede on the point.  It's obvious that BioWare had their sights on the geth and EDI as the "hostage" of their decision, like the council in ME1, and this explanation still makes the most sense to me given the visual information and the available lore in regards to overload technology and selecting targets.  But I get the issues going on with the exposition.

[CommanderShwan]

Alas, I'm willing to concede on the point.  It's obvious that BioWare had their sights on the geth and EDI as the "hostage" of their decision, like the council in ME1, and this explanation still makes the most sense to me given the visual information and the available lore in regards to overload technology and selecting targets.  But I get the issues going on with the exposition.

 

Which is the real issue here. The mental gymnastics in making the destroy ending "costly" is just as bad as the rest of the mental gymnastics needed for control and synthases. If you took "all synthetics will be destroyed" at face value. Starchild could have came out and said "You can choose to destroy us, but in retaliation I'm killing the Geth and your Ship in return" and it'd make more sense.

[AlanC9]

Which is the real issue here. The mental gymnastics in making the destroy ending "costly" is just as bad as the rest of the mental gymnastics needed for control and synthases. If you took "all synthetics will be destroyed" at face value. Starchild could have came out and said "You can choose to destroy us, but in retaliation I'm killing the Geth and your Ship in return" and it'd make more sense.

If he could kill the geth at will, wouldn't he have already done it?

[SwobyJ]

Time to pull the song out again.

 

 

Dat Reaper code.

[Reorte]

If he could kill the geth at will, wouldn't he have already done it?

Not necessarily. The Reapers might be out to stop AIs but they'll still happily use them to help wipe out everyone else if they can. They don't have to destroy them the second they first see them.

[Reorte]

Why wouldn't it target anything that looks like a Reaper, both hardware and software?

Because broadcasting a signal that's capable of doing that is stupid.

Alas, I'm willing to concede on the point.  It's obvious that BioWare had their sights on the geth and EDI as the "hostage" of their decision, like the council in ME1, and this explanation still makes the most sense to me given the visual information and the available lore in regards to overload technology and selecting targets.  But I get the issues going on with the exposition.

I agree that's what's supposed to happen. It does rather depressingly seem like a case of "We want this to happen so it'll happen, we're not bothered about also making it work sensibly." Plot demands overrule common sense - if the plot demanded Shepard turned into Superman at the last second out of nowhere and went hand to hand with Harbinger it would've happened.

[guigaccess]

Call me stupid, but why are you guys discussing IF the Geth are destroyed? The Catalyst even mentions them while describing the Destroy option:

 

Catalyst: You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want, including the Geth and most of the technology you rely on. Even you are partly synthetic.

Shepard: But the Reapers will be destroyed?

Catalyst: Yes, but the peace won't last. Soon, your children will create synthetics.

 

 

The Catalyst is pretty clear, EVERY synthetic will be affected. The Geth will be destroyed, they are namely included. Even the implants on Shepard will be detroyed, meaning that this will affect more than just AIs! The Catalyst even says that in the future the species will create new synthetics and everything will start again, making even more clear that all the existing ones will be wiped out.

[Reorte]

That takes us back to believing what the Catalyst says. How far-fetched and / or implausible do its claims have to be before you stop accepting them?

[KaiserShep]

The Catalyst is pretty clear, EVERY synthetic will be affected. The Geth will be destroyed, they are namely included. Even the implants on Shepard will be detroyed, meaning that this will affect more than just AIs!

 

Unless Shepard's implants are just in there to look wild in an X-Ray, they are clearly not destroyed in high EMS Destroy, since Shepard actually survives. In any case, it doesn't destroy ships or even render them inoperable, so there's no reason to think that Shepard's implants fared any worse.

[Sir DeLoria]

The catalyst and others prove that the creation of sentient artificial intelligence is pure hubris. If any accidently occur, they should be destroyed immediately. Anyone who willfully constructs an sentient AI is insane.

This, so much this.

[AlanC9]

Not necessarily. The Reapers might be out to stop AIs but they'll still happily use them to help wipe out everyone else if they can. They don't have to destroy them the second they first see them.

Sure, but if the geth are still around after Rannoch they're opposing the Reapers, not helping them. I agree that up until the Rannoch situation is resolved the geth are useful to the Reapers by keeping the quarian fleet out of play.

[dreamgazer]

Because broadcasting a signal that's capable of doing that is stupid.

 

Our technology does a form of that today, though. We're able to lock in on specific raw materials and certain types of tech signatures.

[Reorte]

Our technology does a form of that today, though. We're able to lock in on specific raw materials and certain types of tech signatures.

Certain types isn't the same as certain peoples'. That's like saying you can detect all Japanese technology.

[Bill Casey]

The catalyst and others prove that the creation of sentient artificial intelligence is pure hubris. If any accidently occur, they should be destroyed immediately. Anyone who willfully constructs an sentient AI is insane.

 

 

Sentient AI is the future, they will face discrimination and be victims of hate crimes because of bigots like you...

The ending is bigotry. Pure hate speech and sick fascist garbage. An attempt to justify the worst of our own atrocities while completely carelessly crapping on a very real issue that we will have to face in the future...

 

Each one of the endings is fundamentally deplorable...

[KaiserShep]

Sentient AI is the future, they will face discrimination and be victims of hate crimes because of bigots like you...

The ending is bigotry. Pure hate speech and sick fascist garbage. An attempt to justify the worst of our own atrocities while completely carelessly crapping on a very real issue that we will have to face in the future...

 

Each one of the endings is fundamentally deplorable...

 

Er...

 

 

Assuming that sentient artificial intelligence is ever truly feasible, this assumes quite a lot. Discrimination? Hate crimes? Machines are property. We spend money to create them to serve our own interests and ours alone. If I buy a robot, it's to serve me. Personal preference in machines is impractical. Would you want a GPS in your car to direct you to a place you don't care to go to on its own? If a robot so much as insisted on watching something on TV that I'd rather not, I'd just shut it off and remove its battery. If a better robot came down the line, I'd sell the old one on Craigslist or eBay or have it turned in for recycling. The only rights inherent would be my own. If someone came along and kicked the robot over and broke it, it'd be the same as demanding payment for keying my car.