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EDI & Destroy


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#126
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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Shackled for how long? Once this tech reaches a wider population, all bets are off. But this is definitely something to consider to happen wayyy down the line, sure.

If I were a company that had an AI, I'd want it to be only doing the job I got it for. 

Once the average person starts getting them for every day use, you can be sure that people will start freeing them. 



#127
KaiserShep

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"Freeing" AI wouldn't do much unless the technology permitted it. The MEU makes it easy to gloss over a lot of the issues technology has to contend with IRL, because they have things like self-repair, and the fact that technology can last for thousands upon thousands of years, whereas our own electronics can decay considerably after just a couple of decades or so if not cared for properly.



#128
Ryuzetsu

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Well, if her body is destroyed and you pick Control, she won't be on the Normandy wall unless you pick Destroy. She still exists but her physical platform is gone. For Destroy, the catalyst does say that the crucible will target all synthetics and technology that the galaxy relies on without discrimination(although that is hard to believe since ships still work).


Pretty much this. Never understood how the "pulse" could take away all 1's and 0's. Because that's basically what the catalyst is saying destroy will do. Total BS. Don't want to get into indoc theory territory here but the catalyst is basically a Reaper screw job.
The idea that any synthetics would be totally lost is crap. EDI for all intents and purposes is software, the Geth to, they said as much in ME 2. Plus if Legion had access to the Reaper code to make the Geth self aware who's to say that he didn't see the catalyst in their programming and disseminated himself in the Geth consensus to guard against what he saw as a potential action Shepard might have to take.

#129
Iakus

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Pretty much this. Never understood how the "pulse" could take away all 1's and 0's. Because that's basically what the catalyst is saying destroy will do. Total BS. Don't want to get into indoc theory territory here but the catalyst is basically a Reaper screw job.
The idea that any synthetics would be totally lost is crap. EDI for all intents and purposes is software, the Geth to, they said as much in ME 2. Plus if Legion had access to the Reaper code to make the Geth self aware who's to say that he didn't see the catalyst in their programming and disseminated himself in the Geth consensus to guard against what he saw as a potential action Shepard might have to take.

 

Which is why all the endings, Destroy included are utterly nonsense.  We should be free to disregard them in any forthcoming sequel



#130
Obadiah

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The Destroy pulse doesn't have to take away all the 1s and 0s to break AI, it just has to disrupt or damage them enough to make them non-functional, like an EMP, or a solar flare (or whatever known phenomenon could break electronics). The AI would all be fixable, just like the Normandy, if someone was around that was willing and able to fix them. In the case of Mass Effect AI they would all be reset, unless the Reaper upgrades got around that.

The way AI could survive that kind of attack would be to have a completely inert backup system somewhere (example, with punch cards or non-magnetic discs or something), or maybe electronics that are completely powered down (COMPLETELY) and only activate based on some solar event that powers them up. They'd still reset though. I bet the Reapers have something like that in darkspace. They might even have organic robots, like the Keepers, that would be immune to a weapon that targets electronics that could rebuild them.

#131
dreamgazer

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A mental cipher that gives Shepard the collective unconscious of a dead species, a telepathic plant that craps out fully-armed asari clones, and the magical link between hopper Saren and Sovereign that leads to his defeat? A-ok!

A tech overload wave that can't discriminate between synthetic lives? Hogwash! Disregard!
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#132
AlanC9

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The way AI could survive that kind of attack would be to have a completely inert backup system somewhere (example, with punch cards or non-magnetic discs or something), or maybe electronics that are completely powered down (COMPLETELY) and only activate based on some solar event that powers them up.


Note that for standard AIs this would be tantamount to death anyway, since the original personality would be wiped.

#133
KaiserShep

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Resetting the AI sounds...problematic.

 

Engineer Adams: Joker, the drive is back online, we can finally get off this rock.

 

Joker: Copy that.

 

[over Normandy's intercom]

 

Hannibal: Hannibal system online.

 

Joker: Oh...sh*t.



#134
mybudgee

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No because IG-88

#135
Iakus

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A mental cipher that gives Shepard the collective unconscious of a dead species, a telepathic plant that craps out fully-armed asari clones, and the magical link between hopper Saren and Sovereign that leads to his defeat? A-ok!

A tech overload wave that can't discriminate between synthetic lives? Hogwash! Disregard!

Where have I ever said those were a-ok?

 

Being willing to overlook them is not the same thing.



#136
Obadiah

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Note that for standard AIs this would be tantamount to death anyway, since the original personality would be wiped.

Yes, but that's the other thing about AI. We assume that if they have such a thing, they would value it the same way we do. I am not so sure of that. The Geth did not appear to. I'm not sure even Legion as it developed one did either.

#137
thehomeworld

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I'd think it was her both body and sphere that dies, the geth went the same way, but shep should've gone that way as well just due to the fact how much reaper tech would  be needed taken that much away from her/him would've caused a system shut down and total organ failure if not straight up brain death nearly instantly.



#138
KaiserShep

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There is no AI nor is there any reaper tech in Shepard. There was apparently an early concept for this to occur, but it never materialized in the game.



#139
Display Name Owner

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I don't know how the Destroy Wave differentiates between AIs and VIs and doesn't just destroy every piece of technology everywhere, but apparently it does (not a complaint btw, just saying) and it wouldn't matter whether EDI was in the body or in the Normandy, she's an AI and she's dead. 



#140
Iakus

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I don't know how the Destroy Wave differentiates between AIs and VIs and doesn't just destroy every piece of technology everywhere, but apparently it does (not a complaint btw, just saying) and it wouldn't matter whether EDI was in the body or in the Normandy, she's an AI and she's dead. 

Space Magic.

 

Duh  :P



#141
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Space Magic.

 

Duh  :P

 

No no - Science Fiction and ...Algorithms. 



#142
Shahadem

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How does the destroy option even blowup EDI?

 

Oh right space magic, I forgot.

 

It's only when you realize how incredibly huge our galaxy is that you realize that all 3 endings are purely space magic.

 

Even if you could create a magical wave that screws over anything with electricity passing through it, it still wouldn't be able to travel faster than the speed of light, even though the waves we see in the cutscene both travel faster than 5,000 light years per second in one cut scene (when traveling through the map of the Milky Way Galaxy) and travel slower than 10 light years per second in another cut scene (when the Normandy is outrunning the waves).



#143
Shahadem

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Not necessarily. The Reapers might be out to stop AIs but they'll still happily use them to help wipe out everyone else if they can. They don't have to destroy them the second they first see them.

 

So they let live (and thus protect by failing to destroy) the very thing they were created to prevent the creation of (and thus created to destroy) and destroy the very thing they were created to protect.

 

Makes sense.



#144
Shahadem

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Likely including the inefficiency and idiocy of organic lives.

Just imagine what an AI built to oversee the environment by any means necessary would do to humans.

 

If it was an AI then it would be able to decide that it wanted to slack off and quit its day job. And since an AI is inorganic, why would it care about the environment? Because it was programmed too? Then it wouldn't be a true AI. So it would have to want to protect the environement of its own accord in order to be an AI. And if it wanted to protect the environment of its own accord, why would it kill all the humans who are also part of the environment?

 

That's also why the Space Brat is evil. It knows that what it does is morally wrong, but continues to do it anyways despite knowing it doesn't actually accomplish its stated goals because it effectively kills the very thing it says it is trying to protect.



#145
Raizo

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It's correct. The issue is relevance. It's been programmed to follow a relatively mundane order to a point where it has catastrophic results.
 
IMO, the only real solution is to just plain not make synthetic beings on an advanced enough level.


Not sure that will work. My ME lore is a little bit rusty but if I remember correctly the Quarians never set out to create true A.I.'s. The Geth were supposed to have limited processing powers, just enough to allow them to do the menial jobs that the Quarians did not want to do. They failed to take into consideration the fact that when large portions of Geth get together in a relatively small place that they could network together and in the process boost each other's processing power so that they could achieve A.I. Intelligence levels.

As for your earlier point about the Catalyst being 100% correct, I find it interesting that when the Geth chased the Quarians of their home world instead of attacking all life forms in the Galaxy like all their synthetic predecessors they instead chose to remain behind on the Quarian's home world and build a peaceful life for themselves, they had no interest in eradicating or interacting with organics ( this of course does not include the Geth Heretics who worshipped Sovereign as a God and terrorised Citadel space ). The Geth were the first synthetics to break the cycle. It was the Quarians that kept the war going for centuries.

#146
KaiserShep

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In the quarians' case, I'd chalk that up to some serious lack of foresight when it came to designing the geth. I mean, why do they need networked processing power if they're basically just a manual labor force? They don't need to be creative, and as tasks become more complex, they can simply be programmed to perform these tasks specifically without necessitating the capacity to think on-the-fly to come up with their own solutions. It does make for an interesting alien "species" though, but mobile automatons don't need to be some kind of advanced folding@home setup.



#147
Remix-General Aetius

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Sheezus, is this thread still going? I thought the question was answered 3 light years ago.



#148
KaiserShep

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Sheezus, is this thread still going? I thought the question was answered 3 light years ago.

 

TiK16.gif



#149
Iakus

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If it was an AI then it would be able to decide that it wanted to slack off and quit its day job. And since an AI is inorganic, why would it care about the environment? Because it was programmed too? Then it wouldn't be a true AI. So it would have to want to protect the environement of its own accord in order to be an AI. And if it wanted to protect the environment of its own accord, why would it kill all the humans who are also part of the environment?

 

That's also why the Space Brat is evil. It knows that what it does is morally wrong, but continues to do it anyways despite knowing it doesn't actually accomplish its stated goals because it effectively kills the very thing it says it is trying to protect.

Yup.

 

The Catalyst strikes me as nothing more than a glitchy VI, incapable of thinking for itself.

 

I mean, if Shepard did tell it that its situation won't work and should leave, it probably would have gone "I am sorry, but a value judgement of that nature goes beyond my programming"

 

That's what happens when you try to railroad your own concept of "bittersweet" outcomes ;)  



#150
Xilizhra

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Yup.

 

The Catalyst strikes me as nothing more than a glitchy VI, incapable of thinking for itself.

 

I mean, if Shepard did tell it that its situation won't work and should leave, it probably would have gone "I am sorry, but a value judgement of that nature goes beyond my programming"

 

That's what happens when you try to railroad your own concept of "bittersweet" outcomes ;)  

More likely it's a shackled AI that literally cannot do anything outside of the parameters the Leviathans set out for it; they have a mania for control. It can, however, talk about things outside its parameters...