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[Han Shot First]

I think EDI gets fully zapped, and not just the platform.

 

That being said EDI was destroyed and rebuilt once before. (Luna)

[Xilizhra]

I think EDI gets fully zapped, and not just the platform.

 

That being said EDI was destroyed and rebuilt once before. (Luna)

The parts could still be used, but EDI's personality would be permanently gone.

[SwobyJ]

Not sure that will work. My ME lore is a little bit rusty but if I remember correctly the Quarians never set out to create true A.I.'s. The Geth were supposed to have limited processing powers, just enough to allow them to do the menial jobs that the Quarians did not want to do. They failed to take into consideration the fact that when large portions of Geth get together in a relatively small place that they could network together and in the process boost each other's processing power so that they could achieve A.I. Intelligence levels.

As for your earlier point about the Catalyst being 100% correct, I find it interesting that when the Geth chased the Quarians of their home world instead of attacking all life forms in the Galaxy like all their synthetic predecessors they instead chose to remain behind on the Quarian's home world and build a peaceful life for themselves, they had no interest in eradicating or interacting with organics ( this of course does not include the Geth Heretics who worshipped Sovereign as a God and terrorised Citadel space ). The Geth were the first synthetics to break the cycle. It was the Quarians that kept the war going for centuries.

 

Yes, one can include the Geth - and Legion - as a big part of breaking/ending the Cycle, in their own stories, in their own way.

 

Or not. Ending the Cycle is actually, it seems, a more subjective thing. Do you end the Cycle by blowing up all Machines that attempt a Loop? Or do you get it by incorporating machines, more carefully, into your lives?

[Iakus]

More likely it's a shackled AI that literally cannot do anything outside of the parameters the Leviathans set out for it; they have a mania for control. It can, however, talk about things outside its parameters...

 

They have such a mania for control they let their own synthetics slaughter them.

 

Wat? 

 

And we've seen even shackled AIs can tel you they're shackled.

[KaiserShep]

The Leviathans are probably just really just hugely idiotic space monsters that clumsily got some enthralled shmucks in cubicles to do the coding for them. I mean, it's not like they can physically build a computer themselves anyway. That one dope who was talking through the Anne Brysonphone was blathering on about how there was no mistake. Sure there wasn't, dingus. It was probably fed that sack of manure as some kind of hand-me-down legend by its elders.

[Xilizhra]

They have such a mania for control they let their own synthetics slaughter them.

 

Wat? 

 

And we've seen even shackled AIs can tel you they're shackled.

Shepard never asked about it, so why would the Catalyst mention it? And just because you love control doesn't mean that you're good at programming; the Leviathans also seem dangerously lazy, which is presumably why they wanted a permanent peace between organics and synthetics that they wouldn't have to work on themselves.

[AlanC9]

The Leviathans are probably just really just hugely idiotic space monsters that clumsily got some enthralled shmucks in cubicles to do the coding for them. I mean, it's not like they can physically build a computer themselves anyway. That one dope who was talking through the Anne Brysonphone was blathering on about how there was no mistake. Sure there wasn't, dingus. It was probably fed that sack of manure as some kind of hand-me-down legend by its elders.

There's SF precedent for this. Larry Niven's thrintun, for instance. They're intelligent, but not very bright. Don't need to be, since with the Power they enslave other species to do all the work.

[Iakus]

Shepard never asked about it, so why would the Catalyst mention it? And just because you love control doesn't mean that you're good at programming; the Leviathans also seem dangerously lazy, which is presumably why they wanted a permanent peace between organics and synthetics that they wouldn't have to work on themselves.

An important plot point like that should be mentioned.

 

Though if Shepard has to do some idiotic restructuring of the galaxy and in all probability die alone and in pain over a buggy piece of software, that's just plain bad writing in the first place.

[Han Shot First]

The parts could still be used, but EDI's personality would be permanently gone.

 

Not entirely.

 

EDI had memories of Luna, so it wasn't just hardware that survived the first time she was destroyed. I agree that she would be altered though.

[KaiserShep]

I wonder if the mech is still sitting there in the bridge when the Normandy hits the dirt on Nowheria.

[AlanC9]

Not entirely.
 
EDI had memories of Luna, so it wasn't just hardware that survived the first time she was destroyed. I agree that she would be altered though.

It's an interesting question. At what point are you someone else? What about a soul, assuming you believe in such?

[KaiserShep]

This is precisely why it helps to constantly back up your computer.

[themikefest]

The robot is destroyed. Whatever parts remain of the thing will be melted down to help rebuild the galaxy.

[Iakus]

Not entirely.

 

EDI had memories of Luna, so it wasn't just hardware that survived the first time she was destroyed. I agree that she would be altered though.

Placing backed up memories into a fresh quantum bluebox will still result in a new personality.  I wouldn't be EDI, just someone else with EDI's memories. 

[KaiserShep]

Placing backed up memories into a fresh quantum bluebox will still result in a new personality.  I wouldn't be EDI, just someone else with EDI's memories. 

 

On the bright side, EDI 2.0 would be a pretty valuable asset, since cyberwarfare will probably still be a thing.

[NM_Che56]

that brings back memories.

back on topic... Edi's toasted & roasted in destroy, though you'd think spaceships and quarians would be too, assuming you didn't have the quarians offed earlier in the story line.

 

I THOUGHT the red beam of death only fried things with reaper code/tech.  Hence ships can still fly.

[Iakus]

I THOUGHT the red beam of death only fried things with reaper code/tech.  Hence ships can still fly.

"The Crucible will not discriminate.  All synthetic life will be targetted"

[NM_Che56]

"The Crucible will not discriminate.  All synthetic life will be targetted"

Ok, fair enough.  But anyone would be hard pressed to call the Normandy or other ships in the various fleets "synthetic life".

[Iakus]

Ok, fair enough.  But anyone would be hard pressed to call the Normandy or other ships in the various fleets "synthetic life".

 

Depends on whether some ships use AIs for any of their functions (there are other, regulated AIs out there, after all, whether it an discriminate between a VI and an AI, how extensive quarian cybernetics are, etc.

 

Heck, by all rights, biotics should be having a very bad day, given they have cybernetics built into their brains and nervous systems.  But hey, space magic, amirite?

[SwobyJ]

Shepard never asked about it, so why would the Catalyst mention it? And just because you love control doesn't mean that you're good at programming; the Leviathans also seem dangerously lazy, which is presumably why they wanted a permanent peace between organics and synthetics that they wouldn't have to work on themselves.

 

Gotta agree with this.

 

The Leviathans are meant to be imposing and powerful, yes, but I also get the sense that:

1)The original ones were monumentally arrogant and monumentally incapable of creating the machine they wanted to create

2)The current ones are more-or-less fumbing in the dark, themselves

3)The current ones are more-or-less the lost children of the original ones (in a small way, think of the ME1 Rachni Queen being kinda different compared to the ones during the Rachni War)

 

The point being that while we kept thinking that Old Machines were the big big big bads, we can optionally learn that it isn't too hard to align ourselves with the understanding that it was Old Organics that screwed up so badly, originally. Even if an AI is made that goes super Skynet on Earth, that wouldn't absolve the original creators/funders/programmers/etc at least some of the blame.

 

Bioware is trying to say, imo, "This is what happens when you just keep making intelligent machines, intending to break them when they go wrong. You lack insight on how they work, and therefore attempts to make AI will continue to be dangerous, instead of helpful."

 

 

Catalyst believes the 'chaos will come back' because the smaller species during the Leviathans' time did it, the Leviathans themselves did it (but in a way that emphasized Order out of the Chaos), and every species that gets to a certain tech level appears to do it in some way. There has only been checks on it via the Reapers' own direct or indirect control mechanisms - like the Council/Citadel ("REPORT ILLEGAL AI").

 

All of this is viewed mostly positively by Leviathans, imo because the system is pretty much perfect for them - just as long as they can assume control of the Reapers. Maybe get them to feel pain, because they want revenge on the near extermination of their kind. But yeah, thanks Reapers for tending a fine crop. Now, like a bunch of Admiral Xens, they want to rule the galaxy (or for Xen, her home planet) without interference and with an understanding of the Machines as tools, not people.

[SwobyJ]

"The Crucible will not discriminate.  All synthetic life will be targetted"

All synthetic life at that point, had Reaper code in them...

 

Unless there's hidden AIs elsewhere in the galaxy, sure.

 

But as far as the Catalyst is concerned*, and Shepard knows, all synthetic life he knows of, exists with Reaper upgrades.

 

 

*To the Catalyst, AI without Reaper code may not even be alive. Heck, they hardly give any respect to organic life.

[Iakus]

All synthetic life at that point, had Reaper code in them...

 

Unless there's hidden AIs elsewhere in the galaxy, sure.

 

But as far as the Catalyst is concerned*, and Shepard knows, all synthetic life he knows of, exists with Reaper upgrades.

 

 

*To the Catalyst, AI without Reaper code may not even be alive. Heck, they hardly give any respect to organic life.

There are AIs even in Council space.  They're shackled, and mainly used for research purposes.  But they are there.

 

And the Catalyst overlooking them and really meaning "all synthetic life with Reaper parts"  is, again, really really bad writing.

 

Especially when the Catalyst adds that "Even you are partly synthetic" bit.

[KaiserShep]

Heh, maybe the Catalyst was bluffing, since Shepard's survival indicates that the implants were still functioning anyway. No one cares about the virtual aliens though.

[dreamgazer]

If it was an AI then it would be able to decide that it wanted to slack off and quit its day job. And since an AI is inorganic, why would it care about the environment? Because it was programmed too? Then it wouldn't be a true AI. So it would have to want to protect the environement of its own accord in order to be an AI. And if it wanted to protect the environment of its own accord, why would it kill all the humans who are also part of the environment?

 

Forgetting about the concept of shackled vs. unshackled AI? 

[SwobyJ]

Depends on whether some ships use AIs for any of their functions (there are other, regulated AIs out there, after all, whether it an discriminate between a VI and an AI, how extensive quarian cybernetics are, etc.

 

Heck, by all rights, biotics should be having a very bad day, given they have cybernetics built into their brains and nervous systems.  But hey, space magic, amirite?

 

There are very few, if any, 'regulated AIs'. Any of them that do exist, are illegal. Terminus Systems, for example... sure, they might have them, but they also have a relatively low tech level compared to the Council Space anyway. They're too focused on guns and ships, not creating synthetic life.

 

The point of the Crucible (which we can certainly dislike), is that the better made it is, the better it can pinpoint and distinguish for itself the extent of technology. The information on it describes things like sensors to see through planets, to pinpoint information, etc. It is effectively, at least in higher versions of it, an AI (or almost one) itself, but without personality.

 

That is why it gets so confusing for even the best engineers, at least in the canon we see. At its base, sure, it sends a signal through the relays to do matter damage to what it sees as synthetic life, and if this isn't fine tuned, then it'll hit things that don't even count as synthetic life (like planets, ships.. Shepard's implants).

 

But then as it gets elaborated on, it adds in parts of the plans that probably had to do with the indoctrinated forces of previous cycles. In this case, it sends a control signal (which we know is a thing, based on some missions and DLCs) instead of a destruction one. But to do so properly, the controller cannot stay organic - they would simply be controlled, like the Illusive Man ended up. They must become the Other themselves, and we can only hope that the controller would stay stalwart enough that the Reapers don't turn him against us.

 

And then finally, when it is most refined, the capability of Synthesis is there. This goes above and beyond anything that previous cycles even wanted to achieve. It is the work, at least in the story, of the maximum effort put into constructing the Crucible and protecting it, more than any other Cycle. Experimental technologies are put into it, beyond any blueprints. The best scientists and/or synthetic intelligences assist. Reaper technology is highly integrated, but so is organic ingenuity and creativity. No one knows exactly what it'll do, but the collective efforts of everyone means that the result, while highly experimental, would still be also very tuned for a result that has to do with the concepts of organic and synthetic life and matter.

 

 

 

This is me being all literalist, but it isn't very hard for me to do so. Bioware just decided to be vague as hell and depend on players reading every War Asset and Codex entry and putting things together for themselves. To very mixed results.