Ah. Too bad it's restricted to rivalmance. That would've been an interesting line to get if you explored his dialogue enough, regardless of friendship or romantic involvement, though I guess romance does need its own specific lines to have weight to them.
It may not have applied earlier in the game: Anders' insanity worsens over time.
I notice from the YouTube video that he does get pretty ominous in the Hawke Estate.
"Hi Anders, how was your day?"
"I feel liberated and the blood of the wicked and the apathetic will fuel my revolution.
"What was that?"
"Oh nothing."
That scene doesn't happen in friendship route. He is more "insane" in rival path.
Already mentioned, but I'd probably want the option to choose which sibling to save in the prologue. When you get to understand Carver he isn't that bad except for absurd instances like in the Deep Roads where after not seeing Hawke for years only whines about stealing his thunder. Painfully sad. I heard he's respectful if he's your friend but it's very hard to get him on the friendship path in one act when he's already at 55 rivalry to start.
Not sure if it's my true 2nd pick, but what comes to mind is the option to kill Tallis. My Hawke despised qunari (siding with Petrice) and did not want to spare her after screwing Hawke over, let alone choose her over Orlais. To her Orlais was the enemy she knew and one that could show gratitude. They also wouldn't collar her like a dog for being a mage or more likely kill her out of fear of demonic corruption. In the DLC's last cut-scene Varric says "I don't know why Hawke didn't kill Tallis" and I thought "BECAUSE THE GAME WOULDN'T LET ME!"
Here are a few things I'd like to change in no particular order (I can't pick just one!):
1) As many others have said, I'd like the option to choose which sibling to save in the prologue or to have the option to save both. I'd love to see the dynamic between a mage Hawke and Bethany and between a warrior/rogue Hawke and Carver.
2) I'd love the option to save Leandra from that psychopath. That was absolutely horrible. The first time I played DA2 and saw that scene, I think my jaw hit the floor in horror along with Hawke's. I hated not having even the slightest opportunity to save her.
3) I'd like the chance to save Elthina from dying in the Chantry. Elthina was a kind, sweet woman who was doing the best she could in a horrible situation. Even if I couldn't stop Anders from blowing up the Chantry, just the option to rescue Elthina and to see Anders' face when he saw she still lived would be awesome. Anders = 
4) I'd like the option to avoid killing the Arishok without having to surrender Isabela to him. The Arishok was a fascinating person, and I respected him. I hated having to kill him, but I refused to hand over Isabela.
5) I'd like the ability to achieve a peace and working relationship between Meredith and Orsino that would benefit both sides. I don't believe mages should be set loose upon the world with no training/supervision, but I also don't believe they should be caged and treated like animals. I wanted to find that happy medium that would please both sides.
There are many, many other things I would like to change (particularly involving the romance dynamics), but this would be the longest post ever, so I shall stop now. 
That scene doesn't happen in friendship route. He is more "insane" in rival path.
I wouldn't even say that: I'd say he's just more aware about his dysfunction as he is being forced to confront it, instead of it being ignored and pretending it's all good.
Same dynamic goes on with Isabella in the rivalry route. If you friend her, you're basically judgement-free and so she likes it and gets along with you great because there's no pressure. If you keep rubbing (her lack of) morality in her face, though, she's irritable and even catty.
I would like to change Elthina for someone who actually has a backbone. Could she not get childish Meredith and frustrated Orsino together for some heavy duty mediation? Install Aveline as interim administrator of Kirkwall as she is the captain of the city guard and is a more logical choice than Meredith (and knowing Aveline everything would be by the book and she would be the least interested in grabbing for power).
And also - why not be able to do for Anders what was done for Connor? With Anders' contacts in the underground could they not have found mages willing to perform the ritual? The Dalish also got Hawke and party into the fade to help Feynriel.
I wouldn't even say that: I'd say he's just more aware about his dysfunction as he is being forced to confront it, instead of it being ignored and pretending it's all good.
Same dynamic goes on with Isabella in the rivalry route. If you friend her, you're basically judgement-free and so she likes it and gets along with you great because there's no pressure. If you keep rubbing (her lack of) morality in her face, though, she's irritable and even catty.
That's what's funny. Only what Hawke thinks matters in the end. There are constant in-game rivalries between Aveline/Isabela and Fenris/Merrill/Anders for example yet Hawke is the one who can sway companions. Hawke can even get Anders to turn on the mages if Hawke disagrees with Anders enough.
As for Isabela's friendship/rivalry dynamic, I've always befriended her. First, all my Hawkes share her values about reasonable selfishness, being ethical criminals, and occasionally helping others. It's hard to play the "saint" type considering the setting and quests given; not to mention I find the rivalry dialogue with Isabela to be rather nauseating. Second, the whole "inspire me to be a better person" thing on the rivalry path is such a cliche. You see it coming a mile away.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Isabela is great both rivalry and friendship, I think.
...actually all of them are imo.
Isabela is great both rivalry and friendship, I think.
...actually all of them are imo.
I'd say the only character I truly enjoy more as a rival is Aveline. It's pretty funny. Maybe Anders as well. Anders is funny how he acts crazy as a rival but his attitude on the friendship path is humbling.
@TheMadHarridan
If Bioware did what you suggest by saving characters like Elthina, Leandra, Orsino, Meredith, and the Arishok then few characters would die. Most people would meta-game for the "happy ending." You see that in things like the Mass Effect series where once players knew how to not lose squadmates they didn't. Character death becomes a challenge to overcome and not part of the story.
1) Add a real prologue section so that there's real drama when the sibling dies (also we get to choose which sibling to save for extra drama)
2) Have the sibling as more than a pawn for cheap drama
3) Possibility of saving Leandra (then she dies in the Chantry explosion, adding a personal punch to the situation)
4) No underwear during romance love scenes...it's just stupid
5) Have Anders blow up the Chantry in a less confusing and out-of-nowhere manner
6) The Sides you can choose during Last Straw.
Being forced to choose Mages and Templars when the game's failed to make either side appear anything more than a dark/dark paradigm is just weak. The additional fact that the endings to which ever side you choose are identical pretty much negates any real impact that the mission had.
Mages: fight templars, possibly fight Carver, Orsino goes nuts, Hawke kills him, mages lose, Meredith goes nuts, Meredith dies, templars leave Hawke alone.
Templars: fight mages, possibly fight Bethany, Orsino goes nuts, Hawke kills him, mages lose, Meredith goes nuts, Meredith dies, templars leave Hawke alone.
Might as well through in a third option to tell Orsino and Meredith to f@#% off. Hawke has no reason to feel pressured into choosing a side, how about making his own side with flapjack and hookers? Okay scratch the flapjack and hookers. How about having Hawke step up as de facto leader of Kirkwall and tell Meredith to back down and for Orsino to come clean?
Kirkwall: Fight mages and templars, persuade Cullen and elements of both factions (including your sibling) to join you, Orsino goes nuts and Hawke kills him, Meredith goes nuts and dies, Cullen calls off annulment, Hail to Viscount(ess) Hawke.
Out these six, the last one would be the one that I'd really want.
1) Add a real prologue section so that there's real drama when the sibling dies (also we get to choose which sibling to save for extra drama)
I have to say, being unable to actually pick a sibling independent of class was something I didn't have a problem with. What I felt the prologue needed was time to introduce these characters to us prior to having to flee Lothering (it would've been interesting to get random NPC banter about the Hero of Ferelden having passed through).
3) Possibility of saving Leandra (then she dies in the Chantry explosion, adding a personal punch to the situation)
If you can save Leandra, then she should simply be saved, but aside from that, just having her be in the Chantry for no reason would be really annoying. Anyway, this seems like something that would be very awkward to develop, because Hawke would have to somehow be aware that Leandra is in the Chantry right at that moment. Would Leandra become a sister in the Chantry?
4) No underwear during romance love scenes...it's just stupid
If it's any consolation, DA:I apparently rectifies this.
5) Have Anders blow up the Chantry in a less confusing and out-of-nowhere manner
I feel that it's only really out of nowhere if you kick Anders out of the group early, denying his various quests that lead up to its destruction.
I wouldn't even say that: I'd say he's just more aware about his dysfunction as he is being forced to confront it, instead of it being ignored and pretending it's all good.
Same dynamic goes on with Isabella in the rivalry route. If you friend her, you're basically judgement-free and so she likes it and gets along with you great because there's no pressure. If you keep rubbing (her lack of) morality in her face, though, she's irritable and even catty.
That's simply pessimistic because the codex clearly says Having a friend (or lover if romanced as friendship route) is helping Anders maintain his focus and ONLY lose control when fighting Templars and that is true. He no longer glows after act 1 (which is the time the friendship is established) except in Ella incident which he is indeed fighting Templars. In rivalry path he glows quite often and has "blank memory" and forgets things. Given the nature of being possessed and importance of mage's will power I'd say he is quite sane in friendship route because Its quite obvious that moral support is helping Anders quite a bit instead of someone spitting on him 24/7 and screaming on his face you are a monster (rival path).
Anders's case is not "getting along" like Isabela's case. Its about showing him he is still human therefore he can make mistakes like anyone and make up for them. In rivalry path you loudly order Anders to stand down when he is trying to attack Ella but in friendship route you calmly remind him of what he is fighting for. There is a huge difference. Anders' friendship route is just written brilliantly because it shows us he is still very much human and he does everything as a human. HE is responsible not Justice and its quite clear from the conversation we have with him before facing Meredith (if you side with mages and have Anders as 100% friend and act 3 quest completed). He speaks like a leader not a lunatic that he becomes in rivalry path. This is purely Hawke's influence and Hawke can be quite a psychopath, shame on us and Bioware.
That's simply pessimistic because the codex clearly says Having a friend (or lover if romanced as friendship route) is helping Anders maintain his focus and ONLY lose control when fighting Templars and that is true. He no longer glows after act 1 (which is the time the friendship is established) except in Ella incident which he is indeed fighting Templars. In rivalry path he glows quite often and has "blank memory" and forgets things. Given the nature of being possessed and importance of mage's will power I'd say he is quite sane in friendship route because Its quite obvious that moral support is helping Anders quite a bit instead of someone spitting on him 24/7 and screaming on his face you are a monster (rival path).
Providing moral support to Anders helps diminish his internal conflict with Justice because providing moral support for is cheering him on to do what Justice would push him to do anyway. You might as well celebrate bribing a mugger: sure, there's less violence, but you're hardly resolving the underlying problem.
Well, unless you think the violence itself is the problem, and not the underlying willingness and the whole taking money deal. Which, as far as the analogy applies to the Mage dilemma, totally applies to many people who think that the worst part of Anders actions was that they couldn't participate in them.
Justice is a destabilizing mental influence on Anders, and one whose role only increases over time. Friendship!Anders only is in line with that increase, not preventing it.
Anders's case is not "getting along" like Isabela's case. Its about showing him he is still human therefore he can make mistakes like anyone and make up for them. In rivalry path you loudly order Anders to stand down when he is trying to attack Ella but in friendship route you calmly remind him of what he is fighting for. There is a huge difference. Anders' friendship route is just written brilliantly because it shows us he is still very much human and he does everything as a human. HE is responsible not Justice and its quite clear from the conversation we have with him before facing Meredith (if you side with mages and have Anders as 100% friend and act 3 quest completed). He speaks like a leader not a lunatic that he becomes in rivalry path. This is purely Hawke's influence and Hawke can be quite a psychopath, shame on us and Bioware.
Dude, not to push the reality of the situation in your face too hard, but Anders is an abhorrent leader in that scenario. He commits a crime no one needed to spark an atrocity no one deserved to instigate a war no one wanted, all without making any preparations to actually see that his side would win or even benefit from the conflict to follow. Not only did he deliberately provoke a massacre of his own cause, he did it without any sanction or right to do it on their behalf.
I am totally cool with acknowledging that Anders is responsible for his part of things. Justice made Anders do things Anders normally wouldn't have done, but Justice only built on what was already there. But for Friendship Anders, 'give mages liberty or give them death, either is acceptable' still applies, and he does nothing to prevent it from simply being death.
There's a word for people who think killing lots of people against their will is for their own good, and that word is 'insane.'
The ending. If you side with the mages, Orsino lives and if you side with the Templars, Meredith lives
Providing moral support to Anders helps diminish his internal conflict with Justice because providing moral support for is cheering him on to do what Justice would push him to do anyway. You might as well celebrate bribing a mugger: sure, there's less violence, but you're hardly resolving the underlying problem.
Well, unless you think the violence itself is the problem, and not the underlying willingness and the whole taking money deal. Which, as far as the analogy applies to the Mage dilemma, totally applies to many people who think that the worst part of Anders actions was that they couldn't participate in them.
Justice is a destabilizing mental influence on Anders, and one whose role only increases over time. Friendship!Anders only is in line with that increase, not preventing it.
Dude, not to push the reality of the situation in your face too hard, but Anders is an abhorrent leader in that scenario. He commits a crime no one needed to spark an atrocity no one deserved to instigate a war no one wanted, all without making any preparations to actually see that his side would win or even benefit from the conflict to follow. Not only did he deliberately provoke a massacre of his own cause, he did it without any sanction or right to do it on their behalf.
I am totally cool with acknowledging that Anders is responsible for his part of things. Justice made Anders do things Anders normally wouldn't have done, but Justice only built on what was already there. But for Friendship Anders, 'give mages liberty or give them death, either is acceptable' still applies, and he does nothing to prevent it from simply being death.
There's a word for people who think killing lots of people against their will is for their own good, and that word is 'insane.'
I'm beginning to think you have not explored all parts of the game. Playing as an aggressive/direct personality mage and befriending Anders is the important parts. Justice doesn't need to Push Anders to do anything because he wants to do them regardless and Hawke is cheering him up to do them. Few examples are:
Hawke settles for nothing less than complete overthrowing of Templar order which he confesses to Anders. The dialogue text is "its time for war" to which Anders replies "You won't be disappointed".
Hawke promises Justice that together they will hunt and kill every last Templar down.
If romanced Hawke promises to protect Anders even if it meant killing all the Templars in Kirkwall.
And it goes on to the point that Hawke somewhat accepts the destruction of chanty, its a star dialogue that only appears if Anders is 100% friend and you completed his quest on act 3. If he is 100% friend, after the quest to supposedly "make a potion" Anders confesses that he has done something but he doesn't want Hawke to be blamed in anyway so he simply asks Hawke to trust him. Bioware has placed this personality for Hawke in the game for a reason.
Justice does not need to drive Anders to do anything. Their merger with each other becomes absolute in friendship route as Anders himself mentions it. That is why Anders glows much less in friendship route. Justice is a part of Anders as much as Anders is part of Justice. In rivalry Justice takes over but not in friendship.
Besides I never said he'd make a good leader to win a war. He simply speaks like a leader, someone who knows what he has done and he is going to do next. Not an insane person driven by madness. Insanity usually means lack of intelligence and that is simply not true about Anders. He knows exactly what he is doing, in friendship route that is.
More than one thing, but only things related to story, not game design or graphics:
1. I, too, would have liked to decide which sibling to save.
2. I would have liked to have been able to have Anders tell you his plans, if your choices were extreme enough.
3. I would have liked to be able to have Gamlen move into the Hawke Estate.
4. I would have liked for On The Loose to have two separate paths depending on whose side you were leaning towards. If you were a mage supporter, I'd have liked to be able to aid mages in staying on the loose, as it were, instead of being forced to kill them. (As a corollary, I would have liked it to matter that I gave Evelina money quite a few times in Act 2)
5. I would have also liked the ending to have diverged more, too. I thought fighting both Orsino and Meredith no matter which ending was a bit cheap.
The bit with Evelina, I agree. Though I didn't discover her in Act 2 until I'd done several play-throughs, and I seldom play characters who'd be inclined to give to beggars anyway.*snip*
(As a corollary, I would have liked it to matter that I gave Evelina money quite a few times in Act 2)
5. I would have also liked the ending to have diverged more, too. I thought fighting both Orsino and Meredith no matter which ending was a bit cheap.
The bit with Evelina, I agree. Though I didn't discover her in Act 2 until I'd done several play-throughs, and I seldom play characters who'd be inclined to give to beggars anyway.
The way siding with the mages played out, I'd be much more satisfied with it if the combat encounters before Orsino snapped was designed in such a way that the player would feel overwhelmed as well. Because as it was, it felt like we were winning. Such as when the Hawke family gets swarmed by darkspawn, then a cut-scene interrupts in the middle of the fighting. Like that, only with templars instead of darkspawn. Having Orsino not snap when you side with the mages would also be a viable alternative, but fighting Meredith regardless makes sense to me.
I agree about fighting Meredith regardless...because of the lyrium. But I just disliked Orsino going darkside no matter what you did. That bothered me a bit.
Especially considering how, by that point, you'd beaten two waves of templars, without too much effort. If like I said, the templars showed up in greater numbers, faster than you could defeat them, and the cut-scene interrupted just as you were about to be overwhelmed, then it would fit better. If it was set up like that, I'd even have liked the option to encourage whatever he was doing. "Do what you have to do. (But do it quick; we're losing.)"But I just disliked Orsino going darkside no matter what you did. That bothered me a bit.
I'm beginning to think you have not explored all parts of the game. Playing as an aggressive/direct personality mage and befriending Anders is the important parts. Justice doesn't need to Push Anders to do anything because he wants to do them regardless and Hawke is cheering him up to do them. Few examples are:
Hawke settles for nothing less than complete overthrowing of Templar order which he confesses to Anders. The dialogue text is "its time for war" to which Anders replies "You won't be disappointed".
Hawke promises Justice that together they will hunt and kill every last Templar down.
If romanced Hawke promises to protect Anders even if it meant killing all the Templars in Kirkwall.
And it goes on to the point that Hawke somewhat accepts the destruction of chanty, its a star dialogue that only appears if Anders is 100% friend and you completed his quest on act 3. If he is 100% friend, after the quest to supposedly "make a potion" Anders confesses that he has done something but he doesn't want Hawke to be blamed in anyway so he simply asks Hawke to trust him. Bioware has placed this personality for Hawke in the game for a reason.
Justice does not need to drive Anders to do anything. Their merger with each other becomes absolute in friendship route as Anders himself mentions it. That is why Anders glows much less in friendship route. Justice is a part of Anders as much as Anders is part of Justice. In rivalry Justice takes over but not in friendship.
You think I haven't explored all parts of the game because... of things that fit exactly within what I have repeatedly said?
Uh, sure. Okay. I can tell this is going to be productive.
Besides I never said he'd make a good leader to win a war. He simply speaks like a leader, someone who knows what he has done and he is going to do next. Not an insane person driven by madness. Insanity usually means lack of intelligence and that is simply not true about Anders. He knows exactly what he is doing, in friendship route that is.
(A) that's not what makes someone a leader, ( 
that's not something that distinguishes someone from insanity, and © that's not what insanity even is. Insanity is a lack of sanity, not a lack of intelligence. That's stupidity, and many insane people are quite intelligent.
Anders knows exactly what he is doing in the friendship route- but what he ends up doing is depraved.
I agree about fighting Meredith regardless...because of the lyrium. But I just disliked Orsino going darkside no matter what you did. That bothered me a bit.
If you sided with the mages the developers originally weren't going to do that but they decided there had to be another boss fight.
3. I would have liked to be able to have Gamlen move into the Hawke Estate.
Never thought I'd hear this one.
About Anders, he's always aware of Justice's influence on him and how the spirit has been warped by Anders. But like all companions, Hawke's opinion has the magical ability to sway and therefore if Anders is a rival he tries resisting Justice's influence. This causes the blank spells, extra glowing, and his despair/regret after blowing up the Chantry. But if Hawke befriends him then Anders embraces being "the cause of mages."
I think the friendship/rivalry system was brilliantly done overall and I hope to see it in DA:I.
Having both of the Hawke twins survive. I think it would be pretty interesting if they both joined the wardens. Or if Carver became a templar and Bethany a circle mage at the same time.
for an ending - give me a drunken dance party at the Hanged Man. Varric could get a little loving from girl Hawke and boy Hawke and Anders could do their sexy dance. 
Maybe Aveline and Isabella could fix a few fences?
Make Meredith a romance option. I like her. She is my favorite character in the game.
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