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Is there too much emphasis on Romance?


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#101
Grieving Natashina

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Think of it this way. There are four broad legs on the DA table: "Gameplay" (combat, basic interaction, etc.), "Story" (plot, characters, dialogue, cinematic design, etc.), Exploration, and Customiztion. I care about each category about equally, but Romance touches three of those legs (since "Gameplay" has been kind of purposely kept seperate :P ).

 

So a broad base of players are attracted to it in these games for different reasons. If "Story" is a primary draw (and that's kind of a defining element of what makes a BioWare game), then romance takes on a greater importance, because if it's integrated better (ME3, ME1, KoTOR, and DA:O to different degrees), it can fairly radically transform the way you experience the game's plot, and alter the flavor of character interactions. If you also care about replay, it obviously takes on greater value in that. So those extra scenes also become very valuable.

 

Are you losing better value for their expense? I'd say that's extremely unlikely, because optional romance content is really fantastic bang for the buck.

Someone watches the show Extra Credits I see. :D



#102
durasteel

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NPCs in RPGs perform two very important functions.  First, of course, they serve plot elements to the player through the PC, telling you that something needs doing, or the reason why a thing is the way it is, or where to find the dweomered dingus of doom. Secondly, they hold a mirror up to the player character, allowing the player to perceive his or her character the way an in-universe personality does.

 

It is in the second function that an NPC romance really takes on a unique role. While some games provide an option for the player character to have a sex scene or even get married, this is often simply a forgettable moment thrown in for a laugh, like Geralt's many conquests among the ladies of negotiable affection who so densely populate parts of the original Witcher game. A true NPC romance however, requires developing a personality for the paramour, and a relationship between that character and the player's. When well written and executed, that relationship becomes emotionally real to the player and triggers empathy and pathos, so that you, the player in the real world, actually care about the fictional character you see "falling in love" with your avatar in the game. Nothing else in the virtual world has as much power as these feelings to engage the player in the world, in the player character, or in the story of the game. It bypasses your critical thought and speaks directly to your humanity. A bromance (like with my best buddy Garrus) can come close, but a romance really gets past your defenses better than anything else, in the game just like in life.

 

This gives the writers the ability to make you believe, for example, that your character is really great. If you let yourself love Ashley, and she tells you that she believes that you can beat Saren, you believe it, too. In the same way, if the love of your virtual life is uncharacteristically afraid, it adds to your sense of suspense. Engaging the player on an emotional level though the PC is magic. It makes the fiction of the game take on a measure of reality, because in a very real sense whatever you can feel, exists.

 

This emotional dynamic also makes the scenes associated with it memorable. The moments that you actually feel in a game are the ones that you most remember months and years later. One of the most memorable scenes to me from any game, ever, was the redemption of Bastila in my first playthrough of KotOR. I started flirting with her because it was funny, but by the end of the game dozens of hours later, I was really surprised to discover that I actually cared about her a lot. When she finally confessed her unreserved love for my character, when she looked out of my monitor and said "Nothing could make me feel safer than to be loved by you," that was the moment that I won the game. Going on to battle Malak, I felt like I was indestructible and the outcome of the fight was inevitable, a formality.

 

So, no. There is not too much focus on romantic sub-plots in BioWare's games. They are a small fraction of the game's content that make the rest of it feel much more real, if you let it. They're worth it.


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#103
aTigerslunch

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Im curious, OP, did you know FarCry3 had romances and at one point it wasnt optional to avoid in a certain later part of the game? Witcher has romances as well that was tied to the main story. There are other games like that. Where the story goal is to rescue a mans wife or girlfriend. I prefer BWs approach that its optional and avoidable. I play BW games with the romances, and only when characters cant stand an outright villian PC do I go without a romance.
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#104
Splinter Cell 108

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I wouldn't say there's too much emphasis on it, after all they are optional, and not really a huge part of the game, can they have something to do with the main quest? Perhaps, at least in DA:O they did. I think what's happening is that the community's obsession with them makes it seem like they have too much emphasis. 

 

Personally, I don't think they're that important or that they have ever been. 



#105
NM_Che56

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I don't know if BioWare is too focused on Romance, but I think the community as a whole MAY be.  While it's a nice touch that adds a dimension of realism, I don't think the games would suffer horribly without them.

 

The romances in DA:O were pretty artificial.  Give so-and-so enough gifts and they'll "put out"?  DA2's romances were a little more organic, but I never felt "attached" to a character because I romanced them.  For instance, I felt more chemistry with Merrill though I romanced Isabella (because...reasons).  And I didn't really want to romance Merrill because it would have felt...cheap?

 

I liked the romance aspects of Mass Effect (Trilogy); however, my fondest character interactions don't include romance. 


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#106
ReallyRue

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I don't think there's too much emphasis on romance at all.

 

Surely the whole point of RPGs is the story, characters and roleplay (either playing someone you've created or playing as yourself). Romance is (obviously) part of it, just as it's part of many people in real life story. Considering that character interaction is very important, it makes sense to explore differen kinds - which is why it's also possible to have companions despise you.

 

Clearly romance is important (or perceived as important) to the audience. Otherwise they wouldn't shoehorn some bland relationship between the main male and female character into every action film, even when it adds little to the plot.


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#107
JobacNoor

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I don't think Bioware places too much importance on romance in their games. A certain, hardcore portion of their fanbase (and I'd include myself in this group more often than I'd like to admit) most certainly does.

 

The romances in DA:O were pretty artificial.  Give so-and-so enough gifts and they'll "put out"?

 

You can completely ignore the gift system and build relationships with your party members through your actions and dialogue alone.

 

Though the mere fact that the option exists to simply spam gifts to someone until they worship the ground you walk on does enable and encourage playing the game in a way that I, quite frankly view as wrong.



#108
Elhanan

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Personally, I think that Bioware has shown they can have a balanced perspective on romance, but like many on the Forums, can also ignore romance for casual sexual pleasure; rather a large difference, IMO.

 

I prefer the romantic gestures and flirtation seen in giving a simple rose, star gazing, or simply sharing time in a growing friendship. Aveline broke my heart, but also had one of the more romantic storylines seen in games..

 

Brothels are common in FRPG's, as are the actions within; nothing romantic about them. I prefer Cyrano to Don Juan; sue me....


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#109
CronoDragoon

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Personally, I think that Bioware has shown they can have a balanced perspective on romance, but like many on the Forums, can also ignore romance for casual sexual pleasure; rather a large difference, IMO.
 
I prefer the romantic gestures and flirtation seen in giving a simple rose, star gazing, or simply sharing time in a growing friendship.


Ignoring romance for casual sex seems to be appropriate for the romances in which it appears, such as Isabela. Even then, after the first encounter that aspect all but disappears and the rest of her arc is about coming to love Hawke, not just lust after her. Are there any romances where it wasn't appropriate to focus on the sex, given the character?

#110
Enigmatick

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Amongst the fans yes.


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#111
BadgerladDK

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<snip for brevity>

 

So, no. There is not too much focus on romantic sub-plots in BioWare's games. They are a small fraction of the game's content that make the rest of it feel much more real, if you let it. They're worth it.

 

That was a really damned good post. I've been known to be a bit freaked out by some of the superfan character threads in this place, but you pretty much sum up why at the same time I feel the stories that Bioware tell so well would be lessened without the romance element being there.



#112
MrMrPendragon

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I don't think there's too much emphasis on the romance. It's just that the fans are really obsessing over it, so since they are the consumers, Bioware has no choice but to sort of satisfy them and reveal little hints about the romance, which basically just makes the whole obsession even more widespread in the forums.

It just seems like there's a lot of emphasis on the romance because you spend a lot of time here in the forums. But to other people, they are more interested about the graphics and fighting dragons and especially the story. People love throwing those Black City theories around.

#113
Allan Schumacher

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Romances come up because I think a big strength of our games has been our characters. Romance is just one part of that.

It is also content that is relatively easy to talk about with limited information on the game.


I think most "focus" comes from the fan base. If you see me spending a lot of time in there it is because those topics often attract unwanted attention and posts from some people.
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#114
CronoDragoon

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Part of why they are so effective is just how infrequently the content actually occurs. The game isn't about romance, so when you get a dialogue line or scene, it feels like a special part of your playthrough. It focuses your attention and makes it memorable. If we start getting a whole lot of romance stuff in the game, I'd suspect diminishing returns on the feels. But I trust BW to know when too much is too much, as evidenced by their games.

#115
DumSheeps

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No, i think there should be even more.


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#116
Moussey

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I think the focus is at a good level and it shouldn't go any higher or lower. It doesn't overshadow the main plot, individual arcs or character storylines, but it's still pretty damn high that if you don't play with a romance the game experience won't feel quite as complete, at least in my opinion. 

 

It's definitely beyond cute fluff now but it's still just an extra bonus

 

edit: sorry, wrong word



#117
aTigerslunch

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No, i think there should be even more.

 

Dating sim game?  :P   Nah, if it became a dating sim, then it went overboard.  :D  I like more depth myself, but not to become the primary goal or reason for playing BW games. It is one of the reasons I play BW games, the story, characters, growth of them, and the romancing of few of them.



#118
schall_und_rauch

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Bioware puts a lot of emphasis on characters. I don't think many games put as much emphasis on writing as Bioware does.

The "strength" of these romances is not so much any sex scenes (in underwear), but the way they develop the characters and show interaction with these characters. 

I very much appreciate the characters, to the point where Skyrim annoyed me, because it failed to touch me emotionally. I think romance content is done just right. However, I would rather play a DA without romance than one without party banter.

 

After reading a bit into this forum, I wonder if there isn't a niche in the gaming market, which makes well-written, deep and meaningful romance content (as opposed to just a quick path to **** the girl) the point of a game, rather than just optional content. You know, offer game which gives everybody several very different romance stories, and where the world and gameplay itself is just a backdrop for those stories.

Judging from what some people write, there's a high demand for it, and Bioware isn't filling it.



#119
TK514

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While having the option to romance your companions is a fine thing, I have to ask if anyone else thinks that there may be too much focus on a specific part of the game.

Would someone who doesn't want to romance for a play through suffer for not doing so? Do people see the combat and adventure..the main focus of the game to begin simply see it as annoying filler between your romance scenes?

So to reiterated. Is romance a little too focused on as appose to the larger picture of the game the adventuring the combat and such?

 

Only by BSN.  The developers don't give it nearly the attention the forumites do.  They're actually focused on making a fun fantasy/adventure RPG, not a dating sim.



#120
Amfortas

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My playthroughs are generally more fun when I don't romance anybody. I always end up getting unwanted scenes or lines that don't match my character's personality whenever I try it. I doubt it's going to be any different in Inquisition, so I wouldn't worry about getting a lesser experience.

 

The forums definitely focus too much on romance, but if people like talking about that, I don't see the problem.



#121
dduane o

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If this Age is proven to have too many romance hopefully the next one will be named Loving Age by the chantry.



#122
aTigerslunch

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If this Age is proven to have too many romance hopefully the next one will be named Loving Age by the chantry.


Proven to have too many?! I suspect a straight male will get two options. A straight female will get two, gay and lesbian will also have two each. In one play through, most likely will only have two options with that PC type. Less play a bisexual, might gain four max. Two of six will be closed off to a bi of either gender. DA2 gave more in one play through, so not sure how got the idea DA:I has more in one play through over DA2? It has more LIs but in multiple playthrough's not just one.

#123
Zazzerka

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Proven to have to many?! I suspect a straight male will get two options. A straight female will get two, gay and lesbian will also have two each. In one play through, most likely will only have two options with that PC type. Less play a bisexual, might gain four max. Two of six will be closed off to a bi of either gender. DA2 gave more in one play through, so not sure how got the idea DA:I has more in one play through over DA2? It has more LIs but in multiple playthrough's not just one.

 

I think it was more of a lore joke. The next age is named after events and portents that occurred in the current age. So if the Dragon Age had exceptionally high levels of "gettin' it on," the next age could be named accordingly.

 

"It is on this day, in the fifteenth year of the Bow-Chicka-Wow-Wow Age..."



#124
aTigerslunch

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I think it was more of a lore joke. The next age is named after events and portents that occurred in the current age. So if the Dragon Age had exceptionally high levels of "gettin' it on," the next age could be named accordingly.

"It is on this day, in the fifteenth year of the Bow-Chicka-Wow-Wow Age..."


Ok. :D

#125
archav3n

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To cater romance for every sexual is a nightmare. Straight male and female, gay, lesbian. I don't see bisexual as a big problem as the same dialogue is applicable for both gender. Why pursued this in the first place? In my opinion, having romance for both male and female are sufficient. This is a problem when you try to please too many people and may end up with a subpar game (which i honestly hope it's not the case).