207 réponses à ce sujet

[TopTrog]

Here’s a question. Why would synthetics want to extinguish all organic life? What is the purpose of doing so?

Interesting point. I do not think that it is explicitly stated somewhere in the games that synthetics would always do that. I remember that it is being said that they would always rebel against their creators. If we assume that synthetics will be able to evolve themselves at a much faster rate than organics, one reasonable outcome of this would be the defeat / destruction of the organic creators (not all organic life).

 

From what we are being shown in the games (Quarians/Geth), this can have just as much (if not more) to do with the mindset of the creators as with that of the synthetics. The Leviathans apparently saw the danger that highly evolved organic species would inevitably be lost to such conflicts. Interestingly, they also apparently do value both forms of life, as otherwise they could probably just simply have destroyed or prevented all forms of advanced AIs from getting to that stage, given their formidable powers.     

[Reorte]

The destruction of a single species that might've created an AI is neither here nor there though, so they wouldn't be doing anything if that was the only threat (and will always rebel against their creators is a statement that is ignorant and offensive).

If there's no emotion in synthetics, which some people have claimed, they won't evolve at all. If they do evolve they'll also split. If they're that bloodthirsty then they'll probably spend most of their effort turning on each other.

[Obadiah]

Here’s a question. Why would synthetics want to extinguish all organic life? What is the purpose of doing so?

We see life in this cycle getting ready to set off a weapon, the Crucible, that could destroy all Synthetic life, which is the reverse situation. This action is done in ignorance and desperation. I'm guessing that is one scenario where Synthetic life could wipe out all Organics.

[Reorte]

We see life in this cycle getting ready to set off a weapon, the Crucible, that could destroy all Synthetic life, which is the reverse situation. This action is done in ignorance and desperation. I'm guessing that is one scenario where Synthetic life could wipe out all Organics.

Ignorance? No, it's being done to stop the Reapers, simple as that. Desperation? Perhaps, but there's no better alternative.

As I've said elsewhere it wiping out all synthetic life is firmly in space magic territory anyway.

[angol fear]

If there's no emotion in synthetics, which some people have claimed, they won't evolve at all. 

 

Emotion isn't needed for evolution. And Mass Effect says that synthetics evolve faster than organics.

[Supremocognito]

I'd rather have it be that the cycles were created due to Harbingers obsession in finding a boyfried/girlfriennd and will go to any limits to find that that one. Harbinger does the cycle to see which races will resist the most and then try to find the best person of that race, in this case Shepard. Shepard killed Sovereign and did more than any other organic has done, to resist the Reapers therefore Harbinger finally thinks they have found the one.

That's why they troll Shepard/confess their love in ME2 and allow the Normandy to escape in ME3. It's all part of his plan to romance Shepard. Pretty much Harbinger is like a bachelor and the galaxy is it's hunting grounds. Half of the dialog could be considered really horrible pick up lines. If you really think about it it could be MUCH deeper.

[Farangbaa]

Here’s a question. Why would synthetics want to extinguish all organic life? What is the purpose of doing so?

 

Two things you need to consider here:

 

1: all Organics will create Synthetics, multiple times if the first ones aren't their end. Organics become Creators, Synthetics are the Created

2: Created vs Creators is by it's entire nature always Synthetics vs Organics.

[vallore]

Interesting point. I do not think that it is explicitly stated somewhere in the games that synthetics would always do that. I remember that it is being said that they would always rebel against their creators.

 

 

 Actually, the Catalyst does; he says “…without us to stop it synthetics would destroy all organics.”

 

You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8QX8rkQ508 , about 2min +

 

 

 If we assume that synthetics will be able to evolve themselves at a much faster rate than organics, one reasonable outcome of this would be the defeat / destruction of the organic creators (not all organic life).

 

From what we are being shown in the games (Quarians/Geth), this can have just as much (if not more) to do with the mindset of the creators as with that of the synthetics. The Leviathans apparently saw the danger that highly evolved organic species would inevitably be lost to such conflicts. Interestingly, they also apparently do value both forms of life, as otherwise they could probably just simply have destroyed or prevented all forms of advanced AIs from getting to that stage, given their formidable powers.   

 

Inherent to the argument for the inevitability of war and extinction of organics in ME3 seems to be the potential danger each sees in the other.

 

Now, at similar technological levels, one civilization may become alarmed with the faster growth of another, and the other may become alarmed with the alarm/reaction of the first, leading to war. But, if war does not occur when both civilizations still have a similar technological level, ( and this can be avoided for a variety of reasons), then the potential for war decreases rapidly.  

 

Eventually it would be like the USA bothering about the Neolithic population of a remote island of the Indic, waging war upon them. Conversely, the islanders, while likely not fully understanding the nature of the westerner’s technology, would understand that their chances against a modern civilization are basically zero.

 

Now, there may be other causes for a sharply asymmetrical war, but ME3 does not suggest any cause for them.

[vallore]

The destruction of a single species that might've created an AI is neither here nor there though, so they wouldn't be doing anything if that was the only threat (and will always rebel against their creators is a statement that is ignorant and offensive).

If there's no emotion in synthetics, which some people have claimed, they won't evolve at all. If they do evolve they'll also split. If they're that bloodthirsty then they'll probably spend most of their effort turning on each other.

 

 

Indeed;and also one of the main problems I see with the Catalyst argument is that he assumes that synthetics will necessarily side with other synthetics, or remain neutral, in a critical moment in a war between organics  and other synthetics. (Otherwise the fate of organics could not be certain, even assuming synthetic superiority). Why does he assume such? That even goes against the example of what was happening at that moment in the ME galaxy.

 

 

We see life in this cycle getting ready to set off a weapon, the Crucible, that could destroy all Synthetic life, which is the reverse situation. This action is done in ignorance and desperation. I'm guessing that is one scenario where Synthetic life could wipe out all Organics.

 

It seems to me that to destroy all organic life would be similar to an attempt to destroy all technology, even the most rudimentary, like say, a fire making stick.

But to destroy all AIs would rather be roughly similar to destroy all technological advanced organic civilizations.

 

The level of effort, and reason to attempt such, seem to me to be vastly different.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

We see life in this cycle getting ready to set off a weapon, the Crucible, that could destroy all Synthetic life, which is the reverse situation. This action is done in ignorance and desperation. I'm guessing that is one scenario where Synthetic life could wipe out all Organics.

 

No. It's to destroy the Reapers. Why keep them around? The destruction of synthetic life is collateral damage. However, why anyone would want to create sentient and sapient synthetic life still makes me question one's sanity. We repair the relays and get on with our lives.

 

Shepard in Control is going to have his/her mind replacing the Catalyst, but is still going to be faced with the same problem: watching over the many. Control.... repairs the relays and the reapers return to dark space for 50,000 years. 

 

Synthesis is a forced solution that has always failed. Magically we are ready. The Catalyst has made mistakes in the past. It made them in this cycle. Who is to say this will work this time? It will fail. 

[Obadiah]

@sH0tgUn jUliA
I keep forgetting that other people that pick Destroy are much more at peace with the decision than my Shepards, but ok - so "why should we keep them around" and "collateral damage" are other reasons Synthetics might destroy all Organic life.

[dreamgazer]

Shepard in Control is going to have his/her mind replacing the Catalyst, but is still going to be faced with the same problem: watching over the many. Control.... repairs the relays and the reapers return to dark space for 50,000 years.

Not entirely sure about that, but it's within the realm of reasonable interpretation, I suppose.

[JasonShepard]

Shepard in Control is going to have his/her mind replacing the Catalyst, but is still going to be faced with the same problem: watching over the many. Control.... repairs the relays and the reapers return to dark space for 50,000 years. 

 

Or... Shepard washes his/her hands of the problem, repairs the relays and the Reapers return to dark space and never come back.

[KrrKs]

On topic:

I still think the presented reaper logic is completely broken.

Why wipe out all advanced species first,

(and most like their AI creation after that -in case of the geth after using them to wipe out their creators -> the thing the reapers should actually prevent!)

instead of wiping out the AIs once in a while, and leave the organics as witnesses to their (the AIs) assumed betrayal, so that no further AIs are made?

 

Off topic:

 

No. It's to destroy the Reapers. Why keep them around? The destruction of synthetic life is collateral damage. However, why anyone would want to create sentient and sapient synthetic life still makes me question one's sanity.

The question is not why create AI, but why not?

(yeah, maybe it the creation will be evil, and maybe it will try to wipe us out eventually, and maybe we won't be able to pull the plug in time...

-> this is pretty much the same as: Maybe the guys at CERN will create tiny black holes that maybe grow and maybe consume earth,

and look how that went)

 

(Mid Edit:

Respectively; why settle down and grow crops/ why build this/ why use that)

 

Creating an working/living AI will either produce something with a similar working mind to ours, resulting in a great gain of knowledge about AIs in general and also our own mind and open up several possibilities of AI usage, which most likely alter our everyday live like the invention of the internet did.

 

OR it does produce an AI with a different logic, different world vision and different lookout on things->

which would most likely produce similar knowledge (respective questions) gain and new usage options as the first possibility.

 

...And I question the sanity of everyone who labels genocide on (more than!) one entire species as collateral damage!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Not entirely sure about that, but it's within the realm of reason interpretation, I suppose.

 

Bioware says they cleaned up their mess then left. 50,000 years is essentially never by our standards. I mean who really cares about 50,000 years from now? We'll be dead, and tech should have surpassed the reapers by then.

[SporkFu]

Bioware says they cleaned up their mess then left. 50,000 years is essentially never by our standards. I mean who really cares about 50,000 years from now? We'll be dead, and tech should have surpassed the reapers by then.

Exactly. there will be whole new civilizations by then... well, except maybe the asari. Uness there was some unforeseen catastrophe I could see them surviving that long, as a species. I mean, that's only 50 generations. Maybe by then shep will have to bring the reapers back to deal with those upstart organics and the cycle will continue. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Shep brings back the reapers in 50,000 years and gets his ass kicked. "I'm am the vanguard of your salvation through your destruction.... Wait! What the???"

[Reorte]

Emotion isn't needed for evolution. And Mass Effect says that synthetics evolve faster than organics.

Yes it is, in the case of machine life. If they are to change and it's coming from themselves then they'll need motivation for making that change. Without emotion there's no motivation.

I don't care what Mass Effect says, particularly the Catalyst. If the game claims something contrary to what I see as the most likely possibility it needs to justify that (and not with simple made-up examples it can then cite as "proof") or I'll dismiss it as crap not worth paying attention to.

[Obadiah]

Not entirely sure about that, but it's within the realm of reason interpretation, I suppose.

Pretty much my happy ending - Rogue AI turned into tools for the life in this cycle until... DUN DUUUNNNN... they rebel again. Hopefully, it won't be for a few millenia.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Somehow I don't think the general population would feel comfortable with those things in town.

[Mcfly616]

Sweeeet

[SporkFu]

Shep brings back the reapers in 50,000 years and gets his ass kicked. "I'm am the vanguard of your salvation through your destruction.... Wait! What the???"

 Good point. 

 

or maybe he tells Glyph to destroy all Liara time capsules and no one even knows what the reapers are next time... j/k that would probably never happen. 

[dreamgazer]

London looks finished to me in that shot. Certainly not demanding of three oversight Reapers.

[Excella Gionne]

Control does have its importance and ethical stands. It was my first ending that I picked too. 

[SporkFu]

I almost always alternate between the endings. Each playthrough I just pick a different one. Not this time though. Renegade control all the way.