75 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

In Mass effect 1 and 2 the paragon and renegade was very nice. Paragon was well... the good guy and renegade was not evil. It had "save the day damn the consequences" morality. But in Mass effect 3 renegade became a psychopath and outright evil and I hated it.

 

I was hoping we can be the renegade hero from ME1 and 2. Gray morality with priority of saving the day, nothing else. Has there been any confirmations regarding this? In E3 demo during dialogue I saw a red punch icon when choosing a certain dialogue. I'm thinking that was aggressive/direct. If that is the case then diplomatic, sarcastic and aggressive personalities are back?

[Kimarous]

There's no specific morality tracking in Dragon Age. "Paragon" and "Renegade" are nothing but fan notions. There was no morality but the players when their Warden chose the king of Orzammar, nor any such tracking when Hawke had to support either Templar or Mage. Discussing the notion seems like a moot point since it isn't a factor... at all.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

from what I've gathered the choices wheel is entirely different from conversation wheel. being evil is something that should be (and hopefully is) considered a choice (as devs said - those have neutral tone, unlike the conversations).

 

this system sounds very promising and more flexible than renegade/paragon.

[Gervaise]

They have also said there is a potential for you ending the game with only one companion because basically you have ticked off all the others.   There are no set paragon or renegade parameters, merely actions over which other people, including your companions, may or may not approve.  Now I imagine if they voice that disapproval, you have a chance to try and persuade them why it was necessary.    If you simply say "because I say so", too many times, I guess they might give up on you.   Also, from the character description about Sera, I would imagine that if you sacrifice the lives of ordinary people "for the greater good" she will not be happy.  

 

I like this way of doing things rather than the simply paragon/renegade options, particularly as at times what you were given didn't exactly seem to match the description.  For example, you can persuade a guy not to kill a bunch of people using the paragon option by saying how much great publicity he will get for his company if he helps them instead.   This seemed a very cynical way of viewing things, so I was quite glad when I didn't have enough paragon points to get this conversation, so I was "forced" to kill him.   Actually I didn't mind at all.      This was part of the problem, often you chose the paragon option because it would stack up and you might find later on that there was an option you wanted to take but couldn't if you hadn't done so.    This meant instead of truly role playing, you were meta-gaming.     So I much prefer just having a dialogue option and playing it according to what I think is appropriate rather than having a flag saying "this is paragon". 

[KainD]

But in Mass effect 3 renegade became a psychopath and outright evil and I hated it.

I was hoping we can be the renegade hero from ME1 and 2. Gray morality with priority of saving the day, nothing else.

Look, you either believe in good and evil or you believe in gray. Please choose one.

[KC_Prototype]

Well, the ME series had a personality with the Renegade option per game. ME1, it was funny, in ME2 it was bad ass and ME3 it was cold and psychotic. And for ME3 it made sense since it was the last game of the series and events were happening that would change the world. I don't think DA needs this.

[Gtdef]

Actually there was no consistency at all with renegade Shepard in ME3. One time he would be a total jerk in the vein of "I don't care that your family died tell me what I need to know" and in the other he would say "I'm so sorry for your loss but time is of the essence, help me so I can let you mourn". I found it extremely irritating.

[schall_und_rauch]

I hope they will follow the path of choices reflecting the stance on issues.

DAII did that nicely in how you could be more pro-templar or pro-mage. While you weren't locked down in your decision, previous decisions influenced your experience.

Also, your choices reflect how companions with the similar or opposing stance see you.

 

That's much more interesting than determining "I am nice guy" or "I am sooo badass" and just going through with it.

[Lulupab]

Look, you either believe in good and evil or you believe in gray. Please choose one.

 

I do believe in gray but the ME3 renegade was hardly gray. It was like 95% black. The 5% white was trying to save the universe from the Reapers. Everything else was black.

[KainD]

I do believe in gray but the ME3 renegade was hardly gray. It was like 95% black. The 5% white was trying to save the universe from the Reapers. Everything else was black.

 

If you believe in gray then black and white don't exist in your world. If you believe in black and white there is no such thing as grey. Understand? 

[Adaar the Unbound]

If you believe in gray then black and white don't exist in your world. If you believe in black and white there is no such thing as grey. Understand? 

Well, thats a very black and white way of looking at it. 

[Joe25]

I the words grey, greater good, objective, subject, emotional, and rash come to mind when I think of the Inquisitor. 

[KainD]

Well, thats a very black and white way of looking at it.

It is black and white. You either have morals or you don't.

[mikeymoonshine]

I found ME2 worse than ME3 because you pretty much had to go all Paragon or all Renegade.

 

Also DA is not ME, Shepard is a specific person with a specific goal and some personality traits that you can't change. He/she can't be truly evil because he/she isn't. DA doesn't really do that as much, the choice is up to the player. I totally want the option to be evil in Inquisition. As for grey area's, I am sure there will be allot of those to. 

[Kingthlayer]

Paragon and Renegade should go the way of the dinosaurs and just die.  I like to be able to make decisions and not have them colour coded.  Mass Effect 2 was the worst because you had to go a certain way all the way or you lost loyalties.

[OctagonalSquare]

It is black and white. You either have morals or you don't.

Seeing the world in moral greys =/= having no morals.

[fighterchick]

Personally, I don't care much for individual gauges, bars, or wheels to tell me if my character is good or evil, or neutrally grey in the middle.  In Origins, I felt it gave enough choices to define the morality of your character without a handy guide telling me what my morality is.  I like to just let my choices guide my character rather than try to rack up points in a set bar like in Mass Effect.  (Hated it in ME 2 when actions weren't available to me because I needed so much in a certain bar.  I want to be able to make the choice because it feels right for the character.)

[KainD]

Seeing the world in moral greys =/= having no morals.

And what are moral greys then?

[AkiKishi]

Morality is not what you do, it's whether you enjoy doing it. That's why external measures work better in RPGs because they are really awful at gauging intent.

[Altima Darkspells]

I seem to recall there being a change to the tone system that was used in DA2. I think it's Noble, Witty, and Direct now, with the possibility of choosing how to react to certain emotional situations that will change the dialogue, such as neutral, angry, etc.

[Todd23]

Well, the ME series had a personality with the Renegade option per game. ME1, it was funny, in ME2 it was bad ass and ME3 it was cold and psychotic. And for ME3 it made sense since it was the last game of the series and events were happening that would change the world. I don't think DA needs this.

I hated that Paragon was supposed to be the morally good and renegade was supposed to be get it done no matter what it takes. But Paragon was actually get it done no matter what it takes and renegade was just being selfish and doing what you like. They made it instead of a personality choice to a right and wrong choice. Which they made abundantly clear with the Citadel DLC, where if you maximize your companions that survive to that point, whenever there's an ultimatum at some point for one to live and one to die, whatever the Paragon choice was that person would show up to the party, but the renegade choices just wouldn't.
Paragon: Wrex and Samara renegade: Mordin and Morinth.

[Caja]

Personally, I don't care much for individual gauges, bars, or wheels to tell me if my character is good or evil, or neutrally grey in the middle.  In Origins, I felt it gave enough choices to define the morality of your character without a handy guide telling me what my morality is.  I like to just let my choices guide my character rather than try to rack up points in a set bar like in Mass Effect.  [...]

I totally agree. Personally, I am not a huge fan of the Paragon/Renegade system either. That's why I would really like to find out more about the dialogue wheel in DAI.

 

I seem to recall there being a change to the tone system that was used in DA2. I think it's Noble, Witty, and Direct now, with the possibility of choosing how to react to certain emotional situations that will change the dialogue, such as neutral, angry, etc.

That sounds interesting. I googled a bit and found this article that explains it a bit more detailed (funnily enough it gets its information from the forum here):

 

[...]
Certain situations will also see the arrival of a reaction wheel, in which players can choose how their characters will react to a situation, not just say something about it. Standard options such as Stoic, Sad, Confused, Enraged, or Surprised are present in these situations.

While the dialog wheels will once again display a short paraphrasing of the actual statement that is uttered by the character, if you hover on some of them, these will get detailed. The full statement, however, won't be displayed in any case.

 

In Inquisition, there are three major tones to the responses offered by players, in the form of Noble, Clever, and Direct. These replace the tones from Dragon Age 2, which were Diplomatic, Humorous, and Aggressive, largely because they didn't exactly convey what the player was going to say in a situation, according to Gaider. [...]

 Source

 

I like the part about the reaction wheel. Ideally this could mean that you can show real compassion for your companions (or other characters), for instance. I really wish they would show the dialogue/reaction wheel in action.

[Zatche]

Weird, I always thought ME2 Renegade Shepard was the more psychophatic one.

 

Anyways, OP, if you check out the PAX video, you have to make a choice between saving one of your Keeps and the local town. You can also attempt to save both, but that is supposed to be difficult.

 

And what are moral greys then?

 

Some actions in life are morally ambiguous, like invoking the right of annulment at the Circle Tower. Other actions are clearly black and white. Having the Tevinter Slaver sacrifice the city elves so that he can give you one Stat Point clearly fits into black.

[OctagonalSquare]

And what are moral greys then?

Well, for one thing, morality is entirely subjective. There is no objective way of defining what is "right" and what is "wrong". Different societies have different moral standards. Still, they have moral standards. Just because I recognize that the statement "Stealing is wrong" is not objectively true does not mean I go around shoplifting.

 

Furthermore, I would not always consider stealing wrong. If some well-off kid walks into a store and dashes out with a candy bar just because he doesn't feel like paying, I consider that wrong. But if a starving orphan steals a candy bar because he has no money and needs the food to survive, I don't think that would be as bad.

[The Ascendant]

I think they game wants us to decide which argument/cause/plight is considered 'right' or 'wrong'. I love that about Bioware. For instance I greatly sympathize with the Sith Empire in certain things. After the great hyperspace war the Republic sacked Korriban and tried to wipe out an entire race and culture. I expect this of the Sith(which makes them awesome) were it not for Emperor Vitiate the Sith would have been exterminated. If the Republic and Jedi treated the survivors differently who knows how history would have been different. I always support the mages and elves, being an Elf Mage Inquisitor will certainly be interesting.