447 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

So you expect me to believe that no one ever said "Hey, it's been X amount of years. We should probably see what happened to the Milky Way" and tried to find a way back? Or that eventually, those that lived in the Milky Way didn't start exploring more of the universe and maybe already find them?

If Ark Theory works the way I imagine it, they would believe everyone in the Milky Wt had been killed by the Reapers. If they ever decided to go check, it would be VERY far down the line to avoid drawing Reaper attention. Even then, it's not something all the colonists would support, especially since many of them would have been born in the new galaxy by then. As for the a Milky Way: like everyone keeps saying, the galaxy is a big place. The only reason they set out on the arks was as an act of desperation. It'll be an extremely long time before anyone in the MW decides to give extragalactic travel a shot. It's not something you do without an existential threat driving you.

[shepskisaac]

Its not really as simple as that, everything we've come to love about the franchise is in the MW and it has a lot of potential to add so much more, just changing the galaxy will just result in nothing but wasted potential.

We would lose the locations. Everything else would stay (the races, their armor/weapon/ship designs etc). Significant loss, but IMO acceptable to avoid retconning the trilogy

[Madcat 124]

If Ark Theory works the way I imagine it, they would believe everyone in the Milky Wt had been killed by the Reapers. If they ever decided to go check, it would be VERY far down the line to avoid drawing Reaper attention. Even then, it's not something all the colonists would support, especially since many of them would have been born in the new galaxy by then. As for the a Milky Way: like everyone keeps saying, the galaxy is a big place. The only reason they set out on the arks was as an act of desperation. It'll be an extremely long time before anyone in the MW decides to give extragalactic travel a shot. It's not something you do without an existential threat driving you.

Even if they believe everyone were dead, there would be plenty of people interested in their old lives/heritage that would want to go and explore the Milky Way. Even mercenaries or treasure hunters would want to go back for the treasures of a civilization long gone. 

 

And what makes you think the Reapers wouldn't stop a ship full of sapient races from fleeing the galaxy? It took the Reapers about 3 years to get to the Milky Way from Dark Space with their advanced technology. In that time, no one realized the true threat of the reapers and wouldn't waste resources for something that one guy believed. Even if the council were to send a ship of citizens on it, it would probably take a while to get out of the galaxy, where the Reapers would probably stop them. They probably wouldn't even be out of it by the time Mass Effect 3 ends.

 

I'm not saying that I wouldn't want to explore a new galaxy, that would be cool. But I don't want to leave the one we've already grown attached to.

 

Also, if memory serves, they said that they wanted to introduce 2 new races to the series a while back. Now, if the game took place in another galaxy, only two new races sounds like... too little considering all that are in the Milky Way. Krogan, Human, Asari, Quarian, Volus, Turian, Vorcha, Elcor, Hanar...

[durasteel]

The biggest problem with ark theory is organics vs synthetics.  A new galaxy is likely to have advanced organic life and AI or only AI.  It's the same plot in a new setting with a few changes.  If bioware can somehow make that a non-issue, I like ark theory.  Otherwise, I'd rather stay in the MW with a new plot taking place after the events of ME3.

 

The whole "organics vs. synthetics" thing is only a problem to the Catalyst. The Catalyst is wrong, demonstrably so, since it is possible to have cooperation and peace between the two on Rannoch without the need to rape everyone's dna and corrupt all code in the galaxy.

 

It's a non-issue. The real problem was the Catalyst, not all synthetic intelligence.

[durasteel]

We would lose the locations. Everything else would stay (the races, their armor/weapon/ship designs etc). Significant loss, but IMO acceptable to avoid retconning the trilogy

 

Hah! Retconning the trilogy would be an achievement all by itself.

[Drone223]

We would lose the locations. Everything else would stay (the races, their armor/weapon/ship designs etc). Significant loss, but IMO acceptable to avoid retconning the trilogy

Bioware can always set the game in the uncharted regions of the MW, there is no need to get rid of locations from the trilogy altogether.

[shepskisaac]

And what makes you think the Reapers wouldn't stop a ship full of sapient races from fleeing the galaxy? It took the Reapers about 3 years to get to the Milky Way from Dark Space with their advanced technology. In that time, no one realized the true threat of the reapers and wouldn't waste resources for something that one guy believed. Even if the council were to send a ship of citizens on it, it would probably take a while to get out of the galaxy, where the Reapers would probably stop them. They probably wouldn't even be out of it by the time Mass Effect 3 ends.

Assuming they would knew about it. It could be a 'secret project' just like Ilos.
 
All this could be worked around. Hypothetically:

 

They send the ark via "normal means" - FTL travel to Andromeda/Triangulum. People already counted it would take like 500 years with 'normal speed', or about 200 with Reaper speed. Throw in some cryo-pods etc. Have the project team set-up QEC particle pair with the ark (as established already, distance does not matter for QEC effect). The ark arrives in the new galaxy, they contact the Milky Way. As natural as it would be that some people would want to go back, some would just want to stay. Going back is another 200/500 years. Reverse-travel (second wave from MW to Andromeda) the same. The game, or even the entire new trilogy could place any time during the period new/old colonist would be busy travelling. It's a looooong time.

 

And the 'references' to the old trilogy could come up in the form of conversation with someone from MW via the previously established QEC. Think about it from developement perspective. It would be just few conversations/cutscenes. Not expansive at all, it could easily have multiple versions to reflect each Milky Way 'ending'. And by being just a QEC link and Milky Way hunders of years away, it wouldn't have much impact on the stories & issues in the new galaxy.

[Heimdall]

Even if they believe everyone were dead, there would be plenty of people interested in their old lives/heritage that would want to go and explore the Milky Way. Even mercenaries or treasure hunters would want to go back for the treasures of a civilization long gone. 
 
And what makes you think the Reapers wouldn't stop a ship full of sapient races from fleeing the galaxy? It took the Reapers about 3 years to get to the Milky Way from Dark Space with their advanced technology. In that time, no one realized the true threat of the reapers and wouldn't waste resources for something that one guy believed. Even if the council were to send a ship of citizens on it, it would probably take a while to get out of the galaxy, where the Reapers would probably stop them. They probably wouldn't even be out of it by the time Mass Effect 3 ends.
 
I'm not saying that I wouldn't want to explore a new galaxy, that would be cool. But I don't want to leave the one we've already grown attached to.
 
Also, if memory serves, they said that they wanted to introduce 2 new races to the series a while back. Now, if the game took place in another galaxy, only two new races sounds like... too little considering all that are in the Milky Way. Krogan, Human, Asari, Quarian, Volus, Turian, Vorcha, Elcor, Hanar...

They'd believe it was all gone. Even if the didn't it would a long time before they could muster the resources for a return trip. The new galaxy is big. Why not not treasure hunt in a more resource efficient direction?

I covered this in my first post in this thread. They could use the Citadel Relay to Jumpstart their journey and get out of the galaxy, possibly evacuating part of the Citadel in the process

2 races is plenty. There's no predictability about that, that number isn't even confirmed.

[Drone223]

Just because its farther afield than you personally want doesn't mean they aren't expanding and exploring the setting. Ark Theory isn't a hard reboot. The events of the trilogy and all the galaxy's history still happened and, sans the ending, they are remembered and recorded by the same races have been interacting with all this time. That is setting, just as if not more than locations. I don't understand the idea that this is somehow an abandonment.

They've explored the core conflicts: resolved the Genophage and Quarian/Geth War. The Origin of the relays, the Citadel, and the Reapers have been explored (Though some would rather they hadn't been). The only thing to do now is introduce a new conflict or a new threat... and those are not possibilities unique to the Milky Way. So please, I'm genuinely curious, what unique potential does the Milky Way possess beyond a tour of nostalgia?

That's because setting it in another galaxy isn't necessary, it can done in the MW very easily.

 

Those conflicts may have ended in the MW but there will always be new ones that will emerge, you can have a unified terminus systems that rivals the citadel races have the citadel government in state of civil war or just a more personal story, there are endless possibilities. So saying those are the only conflicts that will ever occur in the MW is very unreasonable new conflicts can emerge without setting the next game in another galaxy.

[durasteel]

...

And what makes you think the Reapers wouldn't stop a ship full of sapient races from fleeing the galaxy? It took the Reapers about 3 years to get to the Milky Way from Dark Space with their advanced technology. In that time, no one realized the true threat of the reapers and wouldn't waste resources for something that one guy believed. Even if the council were to send a ship of citizens on it, it would probably take a while to get out of the galaxy, where the Reapers would probably stop them. They probably wouldn't even be out of it by the time Mass Effect 3 ends.

...

 

If I were to create a spin-off set in a GNOCA like Andromeda, I would use the Reapers as a plot device to basically close the door behind me so that the "ark" would be well and truly stranded in the GNOCA, perhaps forever.

 

Keep in mind that while this seems to me like a fun spin-off, I would be mad as hell if they try to get away with something like this for ME4. In that sense, I'm still dead set against the "ark theory." That said...

 

You would need to have some flashbacks in the first act of the game, taking you back to the scene 50,000 years earlier. The Protheans are pursuing several avenues in an attempt to survive the purge, including the sanctuary on the planet that would later be known as Eden Prime and the secret facility on Ilos, but they've also built three massive colony ships designed to escape the galaxy and preserve Prothean civilisation in the Andromeda galaxy. They have a plan: these colony ships, or arks, will take a crew in stasis to the distant galaxy on a thousand year trek, and once there the colonists will build an epic mass relay that will connect back to the Milky Way. Each of the colony ships is specially designed so that it can be used to create such a relay upon arrival in Andromeda, so that even if two are lost, the third can still build the relay. The plan is that if the Protheans remaining in the Milky Way manage to survive the purge, they will construct a matching epic mass relay that will link to the colonists' relay in Andromeda, and they can either follow to Andromeda that way, or the colonists can return to the Milky Way, depending on the circumstances.

 

When the ark ships are launched, of course, it is at the last minute as Reapers are closing in. Two of the ships get away unscathed as Prothean warships make the ultimate sacrifice to buy their escape, but the third is damaged and veers off course into parts unknown. Fade to black as the Reapers utterly destroy the Prothean base.

 

Back in the Mass Effect time period, in the first days of the Reaper invasion, an Asari-lead team discovers that the core of an icy moon orbiting a gas giant in a remote and uninhabited system is actually a massive ship. Once they drill through the ice, they enter the derelict hulk of the third Prothean colony ship... the lost ark. All biologicals are long dead, but when power is restored to the core of the ship an AI is found to remain intact. The team discovers the historical record of the arks, as well as the instructions for how to turn the derelict hulk into the relay it was meant to become. The Asari conclude that this should be done in utmost secrecy, especially kept secret from the Humans of the Systems Alliance, because it is known that Cerberus has thoroughly infiltrated the Alliance. 

 

Meanwhile, a Turian cruiser is leading a small flotilla of refugee ships from many different races, evacuating diverse planetary populations ahead of the Reaper onslaught. Work on the new relay is almost done, but the last step is proving impossible for some technical reason. Reapers detect the basically completed relay and begin to close in, and the team plans to evacuate on the Turian ship and blow up the relay behind them both to keep it out of the hands of the Reapers and to hopefully take out a Reaper ship or two in the process. Of course, at the last minute one of the scientist/technicians figures out how to activate the relay and it comes online, its built-in QEC showing that somewhere out in Andromeda its ancient twin is waiting to connect! It's too late to evacuate, and the only hope for the refugees is to use the Prothean relay and hope for the best. They surge into the mass effect corridor as a team of heroes stays behind to destroy the Relay once the flotilla is through the corridor. They're betting that the Reapers won't want the relay destroyed until they can learn where it links to, and that will give them enough time to execute the plan.

 

Emerging through the relay into the Andromeda galaxy, the flotilla discovers a galaxy at war. The Prothean Empire that has dominated more than a third of the galaxy for over 40,000 years is facing rebellion from within from subjugated races and dissident Protheans, while in other parts of the galaxy an ancient race that was dominant before the Prothean arrival seeks to return to its prior glory, as other powers seek to exploit the chaos whenever opportunity presents itself. Just after the last ship exits the mass effect corridor from the Milky Way, the corridor collapses and the QEC falls silent. You assume the the team that remained has bought your survival at the cost of their own lives, and that the way back is forever closed.

 

Anyway, that's how I would do it.

[Nitrocuban]

Wouldn't it be hard to perceive the Protheans as the good guys?

I mean, with all that airlocking and enslaving the galaxy and stuff?

[wright1978]

They may very we'll go for arc theory but I view it as a very lame concept.

[Son of Shepherd]

I don't buy it. A 'secret society' or such like have decided to gather people for a 500 year or so trip to another galaxy? It just begs questions. How would they keep it secret as not everyone they told would be up for it for a start. Put yourself in their shoes. 

 

"We're fleeing the galaxy for Andromeda, and we'd like you to come."

 

"Really? How will you even get there?"

 

"We have this huge ship and we're going to pack it with thousands from several species, with enough fuel and resources to last the journey."

 

"Won't it take 500 years just to get to Andromeda, at least?"

 

"Yes it will, and you'll die on the way, but your great grandchildren will have great grandchildren and they might have great grandchildren that also might and they may survive."

 

"I'll take my chances."

 

Even Bioware aren't that stupid are they?

 

 

[Heimdall]

That's because setting it in another galaxy isn't necessary, it can done in the MW very easily.
 
Those conflicts may have ended in the MW but there will always be new ones that will emerge, you can have a unified terminus systems that rivals the citadel races have the citadel government in state of civil war or just a more personal story, there are endless possibilities. So saying those are the only conflicts that will ever occur in the MW is very unreasonable new conflicts can emerge without setting the next game in another galaxy.

Exactly, we can invent new things very easily but it must come at the cost of setting a canon or homogenization.

For me, and others, that cost simply isn't worth it.

[Heimdall]

I don't buy it. A 'secret society' or such like have decided to gather people for a 500 year or so trip to another galaxy? It just begs questions. How would they keep it secret as not everyone they told would be up for it for a start. Put yourself in their shoes. 
 
"We're fleeing the galaxy for Andromeda, and we'd like you to come."
 
"Really? How will you even get there?"
 
"We have this huge ship and we're going to pack it with thousands from several species, with enough fuel and resources to last the journey."
 
"Won't it take 500 years just to get to Andromeda, at least?"
 
"Yes it will, and you'll die on the way, but your great grandchildren will have great grandchildren and they might have great grandchildren that also might and they may survive."
 
"I'll take my chances."
 
Even Bioware aren't that stupid are they?

You could at least read the idea. They have stasis pods in ME.

[GreatBlueHeron]

False. The new galaxy COULD have AI, but it might not. They might have banished A.I. development successfully. They might rely on different technology such as hooking brains up to machine interfaces as a replacement for AI.

Then there is of course also the possibility that the reapers and leviathans where wrong in their judgement about AI. Maybe the other galaxies do have AIs but these AIs might actually be friendly. 

 

As I said, the possibilities are endless. Andromeda does not have to be a carbon copy of the Milky Way and it most likely isn't.

 

BioWare already hand waved away their stupid organics-are-doomed-when-the-singularity-happens premise when they made Legion and the friendly geth post-Rannoch (assuming you didn't side with the Quarians). We already have seen friendly AI in our own galaxy, meaning the AI in another galaxy could also be or have become friendly.

 

Or you decided to destroy the geth on Rannoch, then also destroyed the reapers with the Crucible. In that case we've already seen our own galaxy being capable of successfully destroying all AI in the galaxy. And not just regular AIs, but pretty god-like mega Cthulhus that outnumbered and outgunned us! If our galaxy can successfully destroy an army of reapers, then it's not at all far-fetched that Andromeda could also succesfully destroy an AI uprising.

 

 

So these "issues" you bring up are really not issues at all. There are plenty of ways for BioWare to introduce an interesting new galaxy with or without AIs without the need to revisit that stupid old organics v.s synthetics plot (which was never a good plot to begin with).

 

False. The new galaxy COULD have AI, but it might not. They might have banished A.I. development successfully. They might rely on different technology such as hooking brains up to machine interfaces as a replacement for AI.

Then there is of course also the possibility that the reapers and leviathans where wrong in their judgement about AI. Maybe the other galaxies do have AIs but these AIs might actually be friendly. 

 

As I said, the possibilities are endless. Andromeda does not have to be a carbon copy of the Milky Way and it most likely isn't.

 

BioWare already hand waved away their stupid organics-are-doomed-when-the-singularity-happens premise when they made Legion and the friendly geth post-Rannoch (assuming you didn't side with the Quarians). We already have seen friendly AI in our own galaxy, meaning the AI in another galaxy could also be or have become friendly.

 

Or you decided to destroy the geth on Rannoch, then also destroyed the reapers with the Crucible. In that case we've already seen our own galaxy being capable of successfully destroying all AI in the galaxy. And not just regular AIs, but pretty god-like mega Cthulhus that outnumbered and outgunned us! If our galaxy can successfully destroy an army of reapers, then it's not at all far-fetched that Andromeda could also succesfully destroy an AI uprising.

 

 

So these "issues" you bring up are really not issues at all. There are plenty of ways for BioWare to introduce an interesting new galaxy with or without AIs without the need to revisit that stupid old organics v.s synthetics plot (which was never a good plot to begin with).

 Dang, BSN, you never change.

 

Anywho, bioware didn't wave away the doom singularity.  Play Leviathan again.  Leviathans admitted that there were some friendly AIs, but they were the exception rather than the rule.  Unless bioware does Leviathan, part 2, 'The incredibly super intelligent yet benevolent overlords who prevent all other intelligent species from developing AI'.  What you're suggesting is an alternate ME reality.  That's fine, but it's not believable given the reality bioware has presented thus far.  

[GreatBlueHeron]

The whole "organics vs. synthetics" thing is only a problem to the Catalyst. The Catalyst is wrong, demonstrably so, since it is possible to have cooperation and peace between the two on Rannoch without the need to rape everyone's dna and corrupt all code in the galaxy.

 

It's a non-issue. The real problem was the Catalyst, not all synthetic intelligence.

False.  That was a rare incident.  See Leviathan dlc and catalyst remark about how the peace won't last.  I want to believe that peace is possible long term, but that's just hope talking.  Both Leviathan and catalyst have been witness to the always reoccurring conflict for millions of years.  There's an established pattern.  Even though I acknowledge this, destroy is my prefered ending. 

[Beerfish]

My response to the people asking about how to keep such a project secret, how did the alliance and such keep a project like the crucilb epretty well secret during its construction and how did they buuld that thing in such a short period of time.

[crimzontearz]

The ark theory is over a year old

http://forum.bioware...t-galaxy/page-2

[Ahriman]

I don't think this theory has some chances, but it has some points, told by previous posters. I like the idea of it actually. This way we will have only few colonies everything else will be literrally discovered by protagonist.

BTW Even Shepard could launch this ark between ME2 and 3. Since he had access to prothean criopods and reaper shipyard (aka Collector Base), everything else wouldn't be an issue for Shepard. That's' all too stretched though.

[Drone223]

Exactly, we can invent new things very easily but it must come at the cost of setting a canon or homogenization.

For me, and others, that cost simply isn't worth it.

Setting it in another galaxy is much worse than making a canon ending since your discarding most of what the fans love about the ME setting and wasting a lot of story telling potential. No matter what Bioware does people won't be happy and the endings will have to be dealt with eventually may as well get it over with. I think a good amount of people won't have a problem with a canon ending if the story turn out to be great.

[kold213]

The Ark Theory wouldn't work. You'd need to dump your drive cores at the magnetic fields of planets, how many planets are between here and Andromeda? There is a discharge system reserved for larger vessels like space stations. I can't find how these systems work, but I assume it involves loading up the excess static charge into a battery and jettisoning it. A system like that would require a massive number of batteries or raw material stored on board; it wouldn't be feasible.

 

I'm also unsure of how often you'd need to discharge the core. Assuming it needs to be discharged once a week for a 500 years, you'd need 26,000 batteries to pop off.

[Nitrocuban]

Cmon, that's the smallest problem of arc theory. If the writers want it, some clever Quarians would find a way do deal with that problem.

[kold213]

It may be one facet of the over arching problems with the theory, but I doubt even the Quarians can overcome physics. 

[Son of Shepherd]

My response to the people asking about how to keep such a project secret, how did the alliance and such keep a project like the crucilb epretty well secret during its construction and how did they buuld that thing in such a short period of time.

It was only secret from Cerberus and the reapers for a small period of time, every scientist and military/governmental organisation knew about it in no time, but those people are used to being bound by confidentiality.

 

It would really poor of Bioware to decide ark theory happened without it being mentioned at all in mass effect 3. No way would anyone be able to gather enough people, resources, fuel and hardware supplies to last that journey and get away without anyone being aware.