606 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Nuggins]

Oh boy, here we go, another elf being the gay/bi option weeeeeee. Just get solas out of the closet already.

 

Really bioware? if solas ends up as the only gay/bi option for guys, my inquisitor will have a severe case of "blue balls" . I know, I'm anti-elf, but I had enough of elves being gay/bi Li's ... sigh, this is a step back from what you achieved with mass effect 3.

 

To be fair, this is the first lesbian elf we've seen.  The only other romanceable female elf we've had was Merrill, and she was bi because everyone was bi in that game.  Now, if it does turn out that Solas is the gay option for guys... then yeah.  I'd rather it were someone like Blackwall.

[daveliam]

To be fair, this is the first lesbian elf we've seen.  The only other romanceable female elf we've had was Merrill, and she was bi because everyone was bi in that game.  Now, if it does turn out that Solas is the gay option for guys... then yeah.  I'd rather it were someone like Blackwall.

 

It is getting a little questionable that 4 out of 4 romanceable elves were LGB (techincally just LB, I guess).  I'm really hoping that Solas is straight.  If he is gay or bi, then it seems a bit off, unless elf sexuality is different than human.  It could be that elves are mostly bisexual with a small number of straight and gay elves, but I'd rather they acknowledge that in the lore if it's the case.  Otherwise, it leaves an odd undertone if every single elf LI happens to be LGB.  It's not the end of the world and it's kind of a cool thing to have a mostly bisexual race that isn't sexy blue alien ladies, but I'd rather be an official 'thing' and not just alluded to.

[Lady Nuggins]

It is getting a little questionable that 4 out of 4 romanceable elves were LGB (techincally just LB, I guess).  I'm really hoping that Solas is straight.  If he is gay or bi, then it seems a bit off, unless elf sexuality is different than human.  It could be that elves are mostly bisexual with a small number of straight and gay elves, but I'd rather they acknowledge that in the lore if it's the case.  Otherwise, it leaves an odd undertone if every single elf LI happens to be LGB.  It's not the end of the world and it's kind of a cool thing to have a mostly bisexual race that isn't sexy blue alien ladies, but I'd rather be an official 'thing' and not just alluded to.

 

I also just remembered the elf you meet at the brothel in Kirkwall.  He'll flirt with you either way.  It is a bit troubling that the most feminized of the races kind of has the "promiscuous gay/bi" trope going on.  Part of it must have to do with the simple fact that there have been so many elf LIs vs. no dwarf or qunari, but it certainly risks becoming a pattern.

 

I'd like it if there were a cultural explanation, too.  If something in their spiritual lore promoted love for all or something.  I think we discussed in another thread whether Dalish would accept their children as LGBT.  But on the other hand, Zevran, Fenris, Merrill, and probably Sera all come from very different cultures, so I'm not sure that would explain it either.

[daveliam]

I also just remembered the elf you meet at the brothel in Kirkwall.  He'll flirt with you either way.  It is a bit troubling that the most feminized of the races kind of has the "promiscuous gay/bi" trope going on.  Part of it must have to do with the simple fact that there have been so many elf LIs vs. no dwarf or qunari, but it certainly risks becoming a pattern.

 

I'd like it if there were a cultural explanation, too.  If something in their spiritual lore promoted love for all or something.  I think we discussed in another thread whether Dalish would accept their children as LGBT.  But on the other hand, Zevran, Fenris, Merrill, and probably Sera all come from very different cultures, so I'm not sure that would explain it either.

 

Yeah, there were dwarven sex workers in both of the brothels, but I cringe a bit at using sex workers as "evidence" of LGBT representation.  Outside of that, we have no indication of any LGBT individuals in the dwarf community outside of the Warden.  It's been implied that Ashaad might have been in a relationship with Saemus, but the way it was worded from Gaider, only Saemus was listed as a gay NPC, so perhaps it was a one-way unrequited crush.  Outside of that, I don't think we have any evidence of LGBT qunari either.  That might be cultural and perhaps if there are Vashoth in DA: I, we'll see something different.  Of course, the Inquisitor will be able to gay if they are qunari though. 

 

The elves are a tough one because culturally, as you mentioned, all four of the elves that we've had as romance options have come from very different societies.  Only Merrill is coming from an elf-dominant culture.  Again, it's not really a thing yet, but it's really close to it.  I'm hoping that Solas is either not an LI or is straight so that we can officially break the "every elf companion in a game with romances is LGB" thing.

[Ianamus]

It is getting a little questionable that 4 out of 4 romanceable elves were LGB (techincally just LB, I guess).  I'm really hoping that Solas is straight.  If he is gay or bi, then it seems a bit off, unless elf sexuality is different than human.  It could be that elves are mostly bisexual with a small number of straight and gay elves, but I'd rather they acknowledge that in the lore if it's the case.  Otherwise, it leaves an odd undertone if every single elf LI happens to be LGB.  It's not the end of the world and it's kind of a cool thing to have a mostly bisexual race that isn't sexy blue alien ladies, but I'd rather be an official 'thing' and not just alluded to.

 

It's less that every Elf LI is LGBT that bothers me, and more that every Elf companion period is LGBT. (Not counting Awakening or DLC).

 

Even if Solas simply isn't a romance option at all and is straight It'd be fine with me. 

[Pasquale1234]

Yeah, there were dwarven sex workers in both of the brothels, but I cringe a bit at using sex workers as "evidence" of LGBT representation.  Outside of that, we have no indication of any LGBT individuals in the dwarf community outside of the Warden.

Branka - Hespith.
 

I also just remembered the elf you meet at the brothel in Kirkwall. He'll flirt with you either way. It is a bit troubling that the most feminized of the races kind of has the "promiscuous gay/bi" trope going on. Part of it must have to do with the simple fact that there have been so many elf LIs vs. no dwarf or qunari, but it certainly risks becoming a pattern.

I'd like it if there were a cultural explanation, too. If something in their spiritual lore promoted love for all or something. I think we discussed in another thread whether Dalish would accept their children as LGBT. But on the other hand, Zevran, Fenris, Merrill, and probably Sera all come from very different cultures, so I'm not sure that would explain it either.

I see your concern, but wonder if the whole idea of humans viewing elves as being especially attractive might come into play. As long as they get away from the bi = promiscuous trope, I personally have no issues with having a lot of bisexual / pansexual / demisexual people in the world.

Of course, I think the vast majority of people in our world are bisexual, so there's that...

[daveliam]

Branka - Hespith.
 

 

Duh.  How could I forget them?  Yeah, you are right, so we do have bisexual (and possibly gay) dwarf representation.  I'd like to see more of that, personally, especially with their ideas of kinship.  It could be interesting to see how the different castes deal with a gay dwarf.  

[In Exile]

Duh.  How could I forget them?  Yeah, you are right, so we do have bisexual (and possibly gay) dwarf representation.  I'd like to see more of that, personally, especially with their ideas of kinship.  It could be interesting to see how the different castes deal with a gay dwarf.  

 

I don't think Branka was bi, but YMMV. 

[daveliam]

I don't think Branka was bi, but YMMV. 

 

Yeah, there's really no way to be sure without the character self-identifying.  I'm using what we know, which is that she was married to Oghren, then left him for Hespith.  She could absolutely have been a lesbian the entire time, but I'm erring on the side of being conservative and going with bisexual since she also was married to man in the very recent history.

[Lady Nuggins]

While I didn't notice the elf thing before, I did find it odd that we have yet one more queer rogue.  I do kind of raise an eyebrow at the lesbian LI being described as "the wildcard."  I hope the bi/gay options include some serious, straight-laced characters.

[daveliam]

Yeah, in DA, so far the LGB romances are:

 

promiscous male bisexual elf rogue

female bisexual human rogue

promiscous female bisexual human rogue

female bisexual elf mage

male bisexual human mage

male bisexual elf warrior

female lesbian elf rogue

 

So that's:

 

4 rogues, 2 mages, and 1 warrior

4 elves, 3 humans, 0 dwarves, and 0 qunari

2 out of 7 fall into the "promiscous bisexual" trope

 

Again, there's nothing that's alarming about the numbers at this point, but I'd like to see them subvert it a bit.  I'd love for the "promiscous" character to be straight (sounds like IB might fall into that trope this time around though.....).  I'd also like Solas to be straight and for there to be at least two of the remaining s/s romance options to be warriors.  I suspect that Iron Bull will be one, so that would add a warrior and a qunari (but also that pesky promiscuity thing too).  Not really sure who the other will be yet though.

[Lady Nuggins]

Again, there's nothing that's alarming about the numbers at this point, but I'd like to see them subvert it a bit.  I'd love for the "promiscous" character to be straight (sounds like IB might fall into that trope this time around though.....).  I'd also like Solas to be straight and for there to be at least two of the remaining s/s romance options to be warriors.  I suspect that Iron Bull will be one, so that would add a warrior and a qunari (but also that pesky promiscuity thing too).  Not really sure who the other will be yet though.

 

Luckily the all-bi approach of DA2 kept a lot of those more troubling things from becoming a pattern.  I also would like to see them subvert some of those stereotypes.

 

Although, if Iron Bull does wind up being a "promiscuous bi" as many people suspect, he'll be unlike any character of that trope that I've ever seen.  Simply by virtue of not being a flamboyant man or scantily-clad woman, he'd definitely break some stereotypes.

 

("Pesky promiscuity" is my new favorite phrase, btw.)

[Char]

Luckily the all-bi approach of DA2 kept a lot of those more troubling things from becoming a pattern.  I also would like to see them subvert some of those stereotypes.
 
Although, if Iron Bull does wind up being a "promiscuous bi" as many people suspect, he'll be unlike any character of that trope that I've ever seen.  Simply by virtue of not being a flamboyant man or scantily-clad woman, he'd definitely break some stereotypes.
 
("Pesky promiscuity" is my new favorite phrase, btw.)

Bit of a tongue-twister that one
I'm having a bit of a strange day, and for some reason I'm seeing Iron Bull as a Qunari Johnny Bravo now I think my caffeine withdrawal may be hitting critical levels

[phantomrachie]

Duh.  How could I forget them?  Yeah, you are right, so we do have bisexual (and possibly gay) dwarf representation.  I'd like to see more of that, personally, especially with their ideas of kinship.  It could be interesting to see how the different castes deal with a gay dwarf.  

 

I'm in shock. You forgot about a random romance/couple. After the winning streak you got the other day reminding people of romances they had forgotten. 

[karushna5]

nothing wrong with "promiscuity" as long as it isnt the only trope. As a lesbian, i really like how they handled Sera so far. The fact she is wild and mysterious is fine. The only thing that really just confuses partly is her art. They talk a bit like she is a tomboy, but heavy make up, a hair style that certainly doesnt look as if it were cut with a knife and about as feminine as she can be for melee combat. I love how she looks, a lot. I just feel a bit of huh? on what the art is supposed to convey. It's fine she is feminine with a cute feature of short blond hair, and active. i think the days where a tomboy was a woman who showed any interest in guy things, or was physically active in a non stereotypical way are gone. She doesn't have to be masculine, because as far as we have seen, she isnt and that is okay.

 

Cassandra is a tomboy, masculine in more than one way. And Sera is mildly feminine, but whenever we are told about her design choices or looks i just get confused. She isnt hyperfeminine like Vivienne, but certainly not a tomboy either. She looks awesome, but calling a character like Sera a tomboy (lookswise at least) just really really confuses me.

[Lady Nuggins]

nothing wrong with "promiscuity" as long as it isnt the only trope. As a lesbian, i really like how they handled Sera so far. The fact she is wild and mysterious is fine. The only thing that really just confuses partly is her art. They talk a bit like she is a tomboy, but heavy make up, a hair style that certainly doesnt look as if it were cut with a knife and about as feminine as she can be for melee combat. I love how she looks, a lot. I just feel a bit of huh? on what the art is supposed to convey. It's fine she is feminine with a cute feature of short blond hair, and active. i think the days where a tomboy was a woman who showed any interest in guy things, or was physically active in a non stereotypical way are gone. She doesn't have to be masculine, because as far as we have seen, she isnt and that is okay.

 

Cassandra is a tomboy, masculine in more than one way. And Sera is mildly feminine, but whenever we are told about her design choices or looks i just get confused. She isnt hyperfeminine like Vivienne, but certainly not a tomboy either. She looks awesome, but calling a character like Sera a tomboy (lookswise at least) just really really confuses me.

 

Have they actually referred to her as a tomboy?  I find that term pretty outdated, personally, considering shows usually seemed to use it to mean "pretty girl who is just a little sporty and wears sneakers and gets dirty and stuff." 

 

I haven't personally found her look too jarring with what we know about her personality, but what we do know is really open to interpretation right now.  She is pretty, but her makeup is more harsh than any of the other female companions.  Her bangs do have a jagged look to them.  Her clothes are nice, but there are runs in them. 

[karushna5]

they did mention her being a tom boy. See i thought Tom boy meant a masculine woman, which...she isnt. As i said she isn't hyperfeminine, but she isnt masculine at all. Her bangs seem more layered than jagged. It seems to kempt. i once cut my hair on my own and believe me, it is a whole lot more uneven than that. her clothes may not be well kept due to fighting/whatever, but that is her style. Which means she does have a feminine style. As i said I love her look, but it jarrs me when i hear the artist's intent.

[Kara]

It's mostly, I think, that the look isn't as similar to DAO's as they would have preferred.

Remaining truer to her design in DA2 would probably have appeased a lot of people. Her apperance was still practical and (to borrow from other posters in this thread) "manly," but was still somewhat cute. I think at least some of the frustration is similar to some complaints that existed during DA2 and stems from the fact that there is no "safe" LI choice that has broader appeal. Both Isabelle and Merrill are more... niche tastes, so to speak. In this we have Cass, the tomboy, and Vivienne, whose appearance is very flamboyant and eccentric. There are people who like these things (I personally like Cass, though I wouldn't mind her looking more like she did in DA2), but there are plenty of people who like neither. I can understand how some people playing as straight males might feel constrained, just as someone playing as either gender or sexuality might feel constrained with only 2 choices if neither option is personally appealing. 

 

Of course people could always do what I do and play as the other gender in one of your playthroughs if you are, say, upset that Sera is female only. I've never had trouble with immersion when playing as a male character, though I don't think my Qunari Warrior will have much interest in bedding humans or elves. But I have have some sympathy for the people who might be upset about Cass' apperance change from DA2 to Inquisition.

 

Speaking of which, on a definitely-unrelated-to-altering-people's-appearances-to-suit-personal-tastes note, will DA:I allow for modding like DA:O and DA2 did?

[Lebanese Dude]

What about Wade and Herren?

 

You don't even have to rely on stereotypes. When you first meet them, the undertones are hardly subtle ... Also wasn't it confirmed? Do we really need them to make out in front of each other in front of strangers to make them officially gay anyway?

 

There has been a non-trivial amount of LGBT representation in both Dragon Age games.The reason the elves are usually bisexual is because our party is mostly human with one or two other races in tow. Because they are a fantasy race, they are usually made as LIs due to demand for non-human romances. It's far easier to make the ones in our party conveniently bisexual, rather than completely cut them out if you don't have the right gender.

 

Solas will most likely be bisexual, as if he were straight, only female protagonists would be able to romance both elves. If he were gay, straight players who self-insert would have no elf romances available. It could happen given BioWare's story over quota line of thinking, but I strongly doubt it.

 

That leaves Dorian or Blackwall as potentially gay companions, given the others' backgrounds, and I honestly would be fine with either. Both are dreamy in their own way

[pace675]

It is getting a little questionable that 4 out of 4 romanceable elves were LGB (techincally just LB, I guess).  I'm really hoping that Solas is straight.  If he is gay or bi, then it seems a bit off, unless elf sexuality is different than human.  It could be that elves are mostly bisexual with a small number of straight and gay elves, but I'd rather they acknowledge that in the lore if it's the case.  Otherwise, it leaves an odd undertone if every single elf LI happens to be LGB.  It's not the end of the world and it's kind of a cool thing to have a mostly bisexual race that isn't sexy blue alien ladies, but I'd rather be an official 'thing' and not just alluded to.

 

 

Just want to put this out there: In the City elf origins, it seemed to be expected for normal hetro romance (The per-arranged marriage ). Although the PC could not state to their father their sexuality as a reason to why the PC objected to the union. Now this  might only be a Fereldan thing only for the city elves, while other countries elves might be more open minded to sexuality, before marrying off their children and picking a better partner.

 

But I agree with the elf assessment, they been overly portrayed as BI/promiscuous; if they are more inclined to br open mind sexuality something does need to be stated in the lore.

[DaySeeker]

What about Wade and Herren?

 

You don't even have to rely on stereotypes. When you first meet them, the undertones are hardly subtle ... Also wasn't it confirmed? Do we really need them to make out in front of each other in front of strangers to make them officially gay anyway?

 

There has been a non-trivial amount of LGBT representation in both Dragon Age games.The reason the elves are usually bisexual is because our party is mostly human with one or two other races in tow. Because they are a fantasy race, they are usually made as LIs due to demand for non-human romances. It's far easier to make the ones in our party conveniently bisexual, rather than completely cut them out if you don't have the right gender.

 

Solas will most likely be bisexual, as if he were straight, only female protagonists would be able to romance both elves. If he were gay, straight players who self-insert would have no elf romances available. It could happen given BioWare's story over quota line of thinking, but I strongly doubt it.

 

That leaves Dorian or Blackwall as potentially gay companions, given the others' backgrounds, and I honestly would be fine with either. Both are dreamy in their own way

 

I wonder how much thinking Bioware puts into their romance choices.  Ratios and statistics get thrown around, honestly, if I were a writer for the series and I had to think of how the audience would view equitable and satisfying (i.e. only women can romance elves in this game, we've had gay rogues before) I'd have real trouble writing characters, add to that all the nonromance criteria and it seems a big mathy mess.  My impression from the panels I attended was that they create characters based on story and interest.  SO, Bioware folks, if you're reading this I'd like to know if any of what we are talking about comes into play.  How do you determine who will be romanced and by whom?

[aTigerslunch]

they did mention her being a tom boy. See i thought Tom boy meant a masculine woman, which...she isnt. As i said she isn't hyperfeminine, but she isnt masculine at all. Her bangs seem more layered than jagged. It seems to kempt. i once cut my hair on my own and believe me, it is a whole lot more uneven than that. her clothes may not be well kept due to fighting/whatever, but that is her style. Which means she does have a feminine style. As i said I love her look, but it jarrs me when i hear the artist's intent.

Most all my female cousins and sisters are considered and call themselves Tom boys. Only very few get all, not sure how to say it without getting any negativity, prettied up. I dont think any of them are masculine at all.

Tomboy to me doesn't mean masculine, just a girl that acts like a guy in different ways. That doesnt really help explain it either, it is an old term now most likely outdated.

[rocsage]

It is getting a little questionable that 4 out of 4 romanceable elves were LGB (techincally just LB, I guess).  I'm really hoping that Solas is straight.  If he is gay or bi, then it seems a bit off, unless elf sexuality is different than human.  It could be that elves are mostly bisexual with a small number of straight and gay elves, but I'd rather they acknowledge that in the lore if it's the case.  Otherwise, it leaves an odd undertone if every single elf LI happens to be LGB.  It's not the end of the world and it's kind of a cool thing to have a mostly bisexual race that isn't sexy blue alien ladies, but I'd rather be an official 'thing' and not just alluded to.

don't read too much into it; a sample size less than 30 wouldn't be representative.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It is getting a little questionable that 4 out of 4 romanceable elves were LGB (techincally just LB, I guess).  I'm really hoping that Solas is straight.  If he is gay or bi, then it seems a bit off, unless elf sexuality is different than human.  It could be that elves are mostly bisexual with a small number of straight and gay elves, but I'd rather they acknowledge that in the lore if it's the case.  Otherwise, it leaves an odd undertone if every single elf LI happens to be LGB.  It's not the end of the world and it's kind of a cool thing to have a mostly bisexual race that isn't sexy blue alien ladies, but I'd rather be an official 'thing' and not just alluded to.

On the other hand, if Solas is the straight male option then males have no elf options at all. 

[Lady Nuggins]

I wonder how much thinking Bioware puts into their romance choices.  Ratios and statistics get thrown around, honestly, if I were a writer for the series and I had to think of how the audience would view equitable and satisfying (i.e. only women can romance elves in this game, we've had gay rogues before) I'd have real trouble writing characters, add to that all the nonromance criteria and it seems a big mathy mess.  My impression from the panels I attended was that they create characters based on story and interest.  SO, Bioware folks, if you're reading this I'd like to know if any of what we are talking about comes into play.  How do you determine who will be romanced and by whom?

 

I asked them a very similar question at one of the Bioware writer's panels a couple years ago, actually.  My question was something like, "do you come up with your characters first and then notice they fit into romanceable categories as you write them, or do you plan out what kind of romance slots you need to fill, and create a character accordingly?"  The answer was basically "a bit of both."  Sometimes characters become romance options when they seem interesting enough to be worth exploring more of their story, and sometimes they see a gap that needs to be filled and come up with a character based on what is needed.

 

Honestly, coming up with interesting ideas within lots of constraints is kind of what Bioware writers (and I would guess, most video game writers) have to do all the time.  I imagine the need to put fun gameplay first alters every part of the writing process.