44 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Honestly, how much complexity it adds really depends on combat difficulty/mechanics.

 

For example, dealing with a Saarebas or a Blood Mage in Dragon Age 2 on Nightmare basically winds down to knowing exactly where and when they spawn, and immediately disabling/nuking them into oblivion before they have a chance to cast a single spell. If you don't do this, you'll probably have a party wipe. Even if you don't, it's pretty much a guarantee that someone will not survive. This is a pretty stupid way of structuring a "difficult" encounter because your survival isn't really based on an ability to adapt to changing conditions, but whether or not you already know the events of the encounter beforehand.

 

Having a combat permadeath system in a game like DA 2 would just be subjecting one's self to pointless misery at worst, and chronic save-scumming at best. Now I'm sure this is another one of DA 2's mistakes that will be erased in Inquisition, but I would still need to know more about its combat and methods of difficulty scaling before deciding whether or not this would be a worthwhile feature.

[Neon Rising Winter]

I'm guessing there's likely characters who have key roles to play in the story who are unkillable until such time as that point is reached. I can't see how that could work with a system like this.

[oligo]

Personally, I can't stand permadeath.  The only emotional response that it evokes in me is nervousness.

I could never take non-essential NPCs anywhere in Skyrim because I was terrified I'd kill 'em.

 

That being said, I wouldn't mind if it were in Inquisition, so long as I could opt out of it.

Not entirely sure how it would work, though.  I imagine certain companions would stay 'essential' and non-killable until they'd achieved whatever necessary plot-point, but I feel that would cheapen the experience you'd be going for.

[Al Foley]

The problem I could forsee with this is healing magic.  As I was reading through the thread with the Wing Commander and the SAR example my thought 'why did that stop working just when they completed their plot.'  It makes no sense.  Similarily in DA if they allow you to have revive spells and the like then why would they just suddenly stop working in the middle of the game?  Only way I could see something like this working -optionally- is have a three strike and you are out system.  Where if a companion 'dies' three times out questing then they die die, the healing magic no longer works.  And you'd have to be a complete ding bat to get killed off three times when out questing, I would think anyways. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think permadeath from regular combat might work a bit better in a game like Skyrim, where there is hardly any story emphasis on your companions, than it would in Dragon Age. I think Bioware just invests so much into these companions, giving them stories, personalities, building in all these interactions throughout the game... To me it would seem like a pretty big waste if they could just get killed off by random dark spawn encounters.

Though, permadeath would make every combat encounter a much more interesting roleplaying experience.

You would behave very differently in combat if yoy knew your companions couldn't die, versus how you would behave if you knew they could.

[Mes]

Though, permadeath would make every combat encounter a much more interesting roleplaying experience.

You would behave very differently in combat if yoy knew your companions couldn't die, versus how you would behave if you knew they could.

 

True.

 

With the whole lack of health regeneration they're implementing, I wonder if we'll get a similar experience. Like if our companions fall in battle, they won't be able to get revived til you get back to base or something. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

True.

With the whole lack of health regeneration they're implementing, I wonder if we'll get a similar experience. Like if our companions fall in battle, they won't be able to get revived til you get back to base or something.

I'm certainly looking forward to that.

[sunnydxmen]

it is too late for this to be implemented. not that would be anyway.

[dduane o]

it is too late for this to be implemented. not that would be anyway.

 

Awww, well it's a suggestion.  But then again, they could possibly do some updates like Skyrim where they added an extra difficulty or DA:2 where they added an update to add better textures.

[draken-heart]

Where exactly was this? I want to know, so I can be smart about my game.

[rocsage]

pointless.

I've seen game series with this feature removing them in sequels, and even in these "hardcore" (well, considering kuichuko rance, sengoku rance and genrin no kishoguns' nature, wink wink) games, the perma-death mechanism is fraught with exceptions--main character, whose death obviously means gg, and major characters, who simply cannot be lost no matter k.o.ed how many times. 

companions don't fall in combat because of neglect--why would players intentionally bring a companion into a scenario just so that companion can remain supine for half the battle?  

Strategically speaking, I have yet to see a single plan, throughout the series, relying upon a companion's incapacitated state.

Self-imposed challenge could take place in other ways, such as not deploying a fallen companion in subsequent encounters.

[DarthLaxian]

Well I hate babysitting my companions.... so I would never use this, but I wouldn't be opposed to it as a completely optional thing.

 

Indeed!

 

I would not use it because I like to take risks sometimes (engage foes that can get some of my party "killed" (as in taken out till the fight is over)...like the revenants in DA:O when you were low level and/or had no healer (!)...) and I want to be able to see all the content (having a companion dead negates that...from romance to quests he/she is involved in and even party banter everything is locked/wont happen after the companion is dead)...

 

Hell, I hate that they limited healing (after combat), so you have to spend time healing yourself (with your healer) or take potions...It's tedious (and old fashioned...there are enough reasons why game makers took that out years ago (for most games)...going backwards is seldomly a good idea too me!)...I hate stuff that is just there in order to slow the player down (like too many weak trash-pack enemies...not that I want only bosses, but there's a limit to the number that should be there...like you storm a hideout of a small militia and suddenly there is thousands of enemies...*shakes his head*)

 

greetings LAX

[TheWhitefire]

Jaheira gets Harper's Call a lot earlier than that, doesn't she?

Harpers Call is bugged in unmodified BG2. The fix is relatively simple, but it can be a huge pain in the arse if not fixed. The breakage even carries over to the Enhanced Edition.

Also, yuck, Jaheria. She's less obnoxious than Anomen, granted. You're not exactly spoiled for choice when it comes to good/neutral Priest characters though, and one of the only other ones is a shapeshifter druid. At least a male human or elf character can turn that drow good through a great deal of concerted effort. Even she's pretty obnoxious though. Really all the priest characters are obnoxious.


Back on topic, I too hate babysitting my party members. Permadeath would not be rewarding to me, and encounter permadeath causes more problems from a story perspective than you would get from any side benefits. Narrative cutscene deaths can have emotional weight to them, and can create a sense of drama and genuine loss. Combat permadeath just creates frustration, just like an imprisonment spell trapping one of my companions in the ether in BG2. It's just a big pain in the arse.

[In Exile]

Permadeath is useless. It doesn't add any meaningful difficulty. In systems that have it - like BG2 or NWN - you got an item that essentially had a large # of uses that allowed you to revive your party (i.e., rods of resurrection) or otherwise got spells that did the same, but with some difficulty. So it's not really permanent death, as much as it is long-term annoyance. There was, of course, the rare instance of gibbing that actually lead to permanent death (unless you got a spell to revive without the body... I think?), but again, that was back into the annoyance box. 

 

This ignores the problem of extreme cheapness in design that can lead to death. Take the Corypheus fight - that whole thing is BS, and it's basically "fight the pathfinding!" versus an actual boss-fight. Having 3 characters dead because of poor pathfinding would be terrible, borderline gamebreaking design. 

[KaiserShep]

True.

 

With the whole lack of health regeneration they're implementing, I wonder if we'll get a similar experience. Like if our companions fall in battle, they won't be able to get revived til you get back to base or something. 

 

This seems like something that would quickly become annoying and miserable. Imagine your whole whole group gets KO'd in one encounter, and on your way back to the base, you have yet another encounter, but it's exceptionally difficult to do solo. It's a needless frustration that is probably best not implemented.

[Wulfram]

I think they could have made an excellent Xcom style Dragon Age: Inquisition with perma-death.  But it'd require making the combat characters disposable and replacable, while leaving the in depth interaction to "advisor" types.  It'd effectively be a genre switch, and too different for a main-line DA game.

[In Exile]

I think they could have made an excellent Xcom style Dragon Age: Inquisition with perma-death.  But it'd require making the combat characters disposable and replacable, while leaving the in depth interaction to "advisor" types.  It'd effectively be a genre switch, and too different for a main-line DA game.

 

They'd just have to move the PC-Companion interactions to PC-Advisor interactions, with your actual party being totally faceless mooks. Not as much of a shift. Certainly not something to do with a DA game, but Bioware could do a game like that without going too far from their story roots. 

[Elhanan]

Perma-death has been in almost every game I have played, as a Player option. And that is how it should remain, IMO.

I re-load; quite often as a rule. Perma-death is not my drink of choice, and would hate for it to be served without allowing me to decline the offer. In the same way, someone that wishes to start again after death should be able to do so. Player's choice in a solo game seems to be a wise choice, at least in this matter.

[The Night Haunter]

DAI isn't XCOM.

[CasbynessPC]

Saving before every encounter?

 

Now I know how Leilana and Morrigan are still alive!