I'd choose Casteless Dwarf. Then you can just leave Orzammar and go to the surface where you are treated like everyone else.
I wonder is it would be a hard thing to do culturally. I mean most of the casteless stay in Orzammar, leaving must be penalised in this culture for it to work
I also agree that rape is morally wrong, but one can look around the world today and see that it is 'morally acceptable' in some countries around the world. While it is quite possible that a silent majority does not approve of such actions, it has been institutionalised in the legal and political systems of some governments. If the woman who is the victim, rightly tries to bring justice upon the perpetrator, she is the one legally found to be responsible. Then because of such 'daring do' to even suggest a man could do wrong, she's punished for adultery and then stoned to death or suffers the lash. Hardly fair, or even rational, but there is a modern day example of how something we find morally reprehensible, can be institutionalised and rationalised in some cultural groups.
Regarding rape, most societies do seem to consider it wrong, at least outside the context of war. The main problem is how you 'prove' it was a rape, meaning unwanted sexual violation. That did put a lot of pressure on the woman, of course.
From the laws of the Hittites ('the Code of the Nesilim'):
'If a man rape a woman in the mountain, it is the man's wrong, he shall die. But if he rape her in the house, it is the woman's fault, the woman shall die. If the husband find them and then kill them, there is no punishing the husband.'
The other laws seem to indicate that the Hittites were pretty liberal regarding sex, with the exception of incest, sex with animals (horses and mules excepted...) and married women. The law above has been the subject of some debate, but most probably it means that if a woman is 'raped' in her own house but didn't clearly make a lot of noise and kick up a fuss, she was assumed to have been willingly adulterous.
Sometimes 'kicking up a fuss' had to be quite demonstrative (as an example from a related society, see the case of the rape and suicide of Lucretia in pre-Republic Rome)
Things change again in 'traditional' societies when families are involved; if the rapist is a relative, or the member of a more powerful family, other social mores and considerations come into play. There are old Dutch songs where a girl is violated, and can't do anything about it due to her relatively lowly station, but there also others where her family pursues the rapist and 'Men deed den Ruyter knielen, al voor dat blanke zweert' ('they forced the knight to kneel before the naked sword', i.e. his head gets chopped off).
In short: rape is usually considered wrong in many societies, but proving it and getting justice done is something else entirely. This also applies to many other crimes like murder / manslaughter, abuse of power etc.
Regarding Tevinter, I suppose a somewhat standard pseudo-Christian (Andrastian) meets modern western liberal morality can be assumed, but with some modifications, but one that the powers-that-be and many members of society do no abide by.
Not unlike many modern societies in that respect, but probably much, much more exaggerated. Must keep 'em Tevinters in practice evil, of course.
I wonder is it would be a hard thing to do culturally. I mean most of the castles stay in Orzammar, leaving must be penalised in this culture for it to work
I'm sure like the City Elves, the upper levels stop them from leaving en mass. But an individual person leaving they probably won't stop. You're nothing to them after all. I think most don't leave because they either can't work up the courage or they don't want to abandon their fellow Casteless.
Bring back the Glory of Rome!
People saying that tevinter is worse than the Qun is laughable. "Ooohhh they have slaves, they use blood magic!" Versus literally every Qunari is a slave from birth, they torture their mages an chain them like livestock, and have the non-magical ability to brainwash anyone.(which not only brainwashes them but strips them of all personality and sense of self) It makes me realize how much your average BSN person brings their RL baggage with them(even more so than the elf/Mage discussions)
I never said Tervinter was worse than the Qun, but heck, the Qun treats all its members equally, regardless of race. If you're a mage, a non Qunari, or an opposer, its definitely frightening thing. But unlike Tervinter, It doesn't randomly enslave, and threaten its people.The brainwash thing, and the Mage mistreatment is very evil, I agree. But there are pros and cons to everything eh. The poor, mistreated, and starving people of thedas would rather join the qun, as we have seen in DA2. For qunari, the qun is a good thing, cause they won't have to suffer starvation, and face hopelessness again.
People saying that tevinter is worse than the Qun is laughable. "Ooohhh they have slaves, they use blood magic!" Versus literally every Qunari is a slave from birth, they torture their mages an chain them like livestock, and have the non-magical ability to brainwash anyone.(which not only brainwashes them but strips them of all personality and sense of self) It makes me realize how much your average BSN person brings their RL baggage with them(even more so than the elf/Mage discussions)
They don't torture their mages they control them and in fact their mages cause last amount of problems so perhaps it isn't so bad idea,If i had to spend rest of my life as slave i would chose qunari slave at least i wouldn't get horrible treatment.
Like others mentioned already, different cultures may operate with different sense of honour and what sort of deeds affect it.http://www.ladyinsan...kdown-e3demodai
So, Dorian.
When has the Tervinter Imperium been honorable in anything.
They always allowed slavery, and public torture in their nation, and love it. Their own country is built upon the blood of the weak, and innocent.
They caused the blight, and you can bet the Venatori are their product as well. These people kill slaves, and mundane folk for anything, and think there's nothing wrong with it.
In ancient times, the sewer system of an entire city was channeling rivers of blood to their unholy, "Forbidden Ones". Tervinter has no honor.
How do people become powerful in that madhouse?- By blood magic, and doing despicable, unspeakable acts of evil.
Are you trying to suggest Tevinter isnt all that bad?
They don't torture their mages they control them and in fact their mages cause last amount of problems so perhaps it isn't so bad idea,If i had to spend rest of my life as slave i would chose qunari slave at least i wouldn't get horrible treatment.
they treat them like animals, chain them, cut horns and sewn their mouths, use "shockers" and kill them if Arvaad do not like something...i dont know maybe you would like to be sairabas in Qun but many will never
if you like to be a lobotomysed mindless Tammasaran slave cheap animal, thing who cost less than iron scrap and who will not have friends, family childrens and always work in mines or fields or be cannon fodder this is your choice and the Qun will always be happy to have you
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Yeah, if I was a mage, there would be no place I'd rather live.
Until you were unceremoniously poisoned or challenged to a duel for being a threat to a rival Magister...
they treat them like animals, chain them, cut horns and sewn their mouths, use "shockers" and kill them if Arvaad do not like something
if you like be a lobotomysed Tammasaran
slave cheap animal, thing who cost less than iron scrap who will not have family childrens and always work in mines or fields or be cannon fodder this is your choice and the Qun will always be happy to have you
You are over reacting qunari in fact if you aren't mage or noble offer better life comparing to other countries at least you won't be slain by bored noble.Qunari treat at least own peoples with respect and besides in ferelden that still when better place to live than most countries still is far away from qun.
What they do that only to peoples that refuse to convert if you don't and join the qun you won't become slave well at least not that kind of slave.Still being mindless is still better than live with sadistic magister so well.
And it works better than circles much better still not perfect solution but closest to control mages considering what mages were doing , are doing and will be doing it is as far best solution offered by series.Qunari at least don't have blight or breach not mention another disasters.
Of all the Magisters we've met (all four of them) there's Danarius(who was evil), Corypheus (Who was undoubtedly evil),
Hadriana(more sadistic and desprate than evil), Maevaris Tilani(one of the good guys, she is also the only magister we've meet in Tevinter or not hiding away), Aurelian Titus (crazed evil dragon cult guy, who was camping in an abandoned fortress in Seheron.)
There is also Caladrius that also is evil 
The Qunari are essentially aliens who seem to have this utterly incomprehensible system of morality and a weird quasi-corporatist religion with some monolithic communism thrown in for good measure
Human morality is about as applicable to them as it is to ants.
they treat them like animals, chain them, cut horns and sewn their mouths, use "shockers" and kill them if Arvaad do not like something...i dont know maybe you would like to be sairabas in Qun but many will never
if you like to be a lobotomysed mindless Tammasaran
slave cheap animal, thing who cost less than iron scrap and who will not have friends, family childrens and always work in mines or fields or be cannon fodder this is your choice and the Qun will always be happy to have you
I bet slaves in the imperium are done the same or much worse to.
There is also Caladrius that also is evil
So...out of 7 four evil, one part evil, two (including Dorian) good? 64.29% evil then, that's pretty much within the scientifically predicted range for quasi-evil magocracies.
So...out of 7 four evil, one part evil, two (including Dorian) good? 64.29% evil then, that's pretty much within the scientifically predicted range for quasi-evil magocracies.
Well we know from lambert story that black divine went on dark side and become pri**** and we have another bunch of psycho mages in demo including 1 named alexius or something like that.
Nu-Mantia Intercept.
Nu-Hatta.
We are the Nu Men, the New Men.
So...out of 7 four evil, one part evil, two (including Dorian) good? 64.29% evil then, that's pretty much within the scientifically predicted range for quasi-evil magocracies.
. I wonder if the averaged goodness per person is a gaussian.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Thing is... for me to make up my mind about Tevinter either way there would need to be a game or expansion set there. I refuse to write it all off based on second hand accounts and a handful of psychos.
The White Chantry and the Southern nations go out of there way to make Tevinter seem like a Hell's Kitchen. The World of Thedas said so and that is the closest to hard canon on Tevinter that we're going to get for the time being. I'm sure that all the stories of blood magic (which in itself is a double edged sword) and slavery have their fair share of truths, but I refuse to judge an entire nation based on hearsay.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Nu-Mantia Intercept.
Nu-Hatta.
We are the Nu Men, the New Men.
Dude, MK is not here. Try looking in TIL.
Is it evil though if you visit another country, tell the local ruler "I'd like to purchase some of your citizens" and the ruler answers, "sure, here's official paperwork and all, help yourself"? I believe in his own words, he sees himself more... pragmatic rather than evilThere is also Caladrius that also is evil
So...out of 7 four evil, one part evil, two (including Dorian) good? 64.29% evil then, that's pretty much within the scientifically predicted range for quasi-evil magocracies.
To be fair. More mundane but good people like pastry chefs or farmers wouldn't really have the money or reason to travel outside the country and encounter main characters.
Not to mention the slaves themselves probably aren't abundantly evil. Orana was a nice girl.
Is it evil though if you visit another country, tell the local ruler "I'd like to purchase some of your citizens" and the ruler answers, "sure, here's official paperwork and all, help yourself"? I believe in his own words, he sees himself more... pragmatic rather than evil
Show me peoples that think that they are evil of course that all depends on morality but most healthy peoples or societies would see not having any limits mixed with bad intentions evil.
To be fair. More mundane but good people like pastry chefs or farmers wouldn't really have the money or reason to travel outside the country and encounter main characters.
Not to mention the slaves themselves probably aren't abundantly evil. Orana was a nice girl.
Because they aren't mages.
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