Feel free to PM me if you are willing to continue this discussion in PM: It's really hard to understand you, but I am a professional linguist and there is a fair chance I will be able to debate with you in your native language (I speak a number of IE ones).
ok if you do not understand my bad english
Spoiler
Answering the OP, I get the feeling that Dorian wants to get back to Archon Hessarian's path.
Over a hundred years before Drakon, Hessarian was the first ruler to embrace Andrastianism. During the Transfiguration the non-mage lower citizens supported Hessarian and a lot of members of the ruling Altus class were killed, as well as several Laetans who refused to convert. The non-mages started acquiring positions in the Magisterium, especially through the new Imperial Chantry. Temples to the Old Gods were repurposed as Circles. The "magic exists to serve man" was interpreted as the mages having the duty to devote their talents to public service in the Imperium.
However, after Hessarian died, the Imperium has been taking down the reforms he supported instead of advancing them. I think we heard the tale of an Archon who tried to ban slavery being assassinated. Lambert's friend who became the Black Divine was a supposedly a reformist, but he conveniently forgot that once he got to power.
So, if Dorian wants to restore "Tevinter's honor", I'm pretty sure it will be about Hessarian, the best Archon Tevinter has had, even if he did it for pargmatism instead of morality.
ok if you do not understand my bad english
<Arguments>
Hmmm. All right, I will bite.
Это как бы англоязычный форум - так что лучше PM. Невежливо для тех кто не может читать. [Moving the discussion to PM, since it's an English-only forum]
In Orlais, it's a law not to murder anyone with out cause but the people who enforce the laws do it all the time. Is that law a myth,too?
If it isn't executed it is myth as well. Simple word corruption you can have laws but whether they function or just are there to look pretty.As i said many times both tevinter and orlais are corrupted well i would say more their system promotes corruption. That is why i don't have love for them.
Yeah, if I was a mage, there would be no place I'd rather live.
Well duh, if im a nazi there's no other place id rather live than in nazi germany. That doesnt make it a good place
Well duh, if im a nazi there's no other place id rather live than in nazi germany. That doesnt make it a good place
I don't think it's a fair thing to say since being a mage is innate, while believing in a certain ideology is not.
so your really think that in Imperium where blood magic sacrifices(if you read WOt you will even see a letter from Orlais Chantry about some Magister who secretly do sacrifice without any clues and even kitchen slaves who can read and whote what many thedas people can not have nothing exept suspicions) is banned as illegal slavery for what they execute and Magisters have a high competition and any mistake and weakness would be fatal for them
it would be ok for Danarius to kill some boy to show blood magic in front of senators?
and you think its true?
You can say a lot fo things about Tevinter but saying that their slave owners are "honorable" is just a massive contradiction
I don't think it's a fair thing to say since being a mage is innate, while believing in a certain ideology is not.
My main point is that just because it would be a comfortable place to live, that doesnt negate the evil that occurs there. Obviously any mage would prosper there, but that would condone the evil that occur there
My main point is that just because it would be a comfortable place to live, that doesnt negate the evil that occurs there. Obviously any mage would prosper there, but that would condone the evil that occur there
I wonder if it means the Ferelden high-noble-culture is inherently anti-elf, since they are not exactly trying to change anything (haven’t seen any indication of it in the human noble origin, and our warden’s family is supposedly kind to the elves (now that sounds horribly paternalistic).
I think it would be best to stay in the Ancient-Medieval timeframe, when it comes to real world history references or this thread will get locked pretty fast.
You're taking what I said out of context, the only point I am making is that living in a place that suits the individual well, doesn't conclude that the place they settled in doesn't condone evil acts.I wonder if it means the Ferelden high-noble-culture is inherently anti-elf, since they are not exactly trying to change anything (haven’t seen any indication of it in the human noble origin, and our warden’s family is supposedly kind to the elves (now that sounds horribly paternalistic).
You're taking what I said out of context, the only point I am making is that living in a place that suits the individual well, doesn't conclude that the place they settled in doesn't condone evil acts.
I am pressed to find an example of an ancient/medieval society that doesn't.
This isn't medieval Europe this is Thedas. Nations in Thedas don't agree with the idea of slaver, it would be different if it was a common practice among all nationsI am pressed to find an example of an ancient/medieval society that doesn't.
Yeah, Tevinter has some making up to do to the rest of the continent. And it does seem like anybody from Tevinter in Ferelden or Kirkwall is either looking for slaves or escaping it.
Mother Patrice was supposed to show evil can grow anywhere. So Tevinter is no different.
well....she had a great rack...
jks
To the OP, I guess we'll need to see what Dorian means by honor. I for one despise the Tevinter Imperium. But hell, even Fenris says he has no doubt that some magisters are "good, honorable men". I imagine I'll be cold as hell to Dorian, at least until I can figure out his angle. Sounds like fun.
This isn't medieval Europe this is Thedas. Nations in Thedas don't agree with the idea of slaver, it would be different if it was a common practice among all nations
As far as I see it, they are somewhat ok with the idea, as long as it is not actually called slavery. Orlesians are not willing to call their serfdom like practises slavery because their version of the Chant is very-antislavery and no one would want to be associated with the sinners who torched their beloved Andraste. I would argue the Existence of Tevinter is rather beneficial to the Modern White-divine led chantry, since it allows them to overlook their own shortcomings like treatment of the elves and mages: elves and destruction of the Dales (Well, at least they are not slaves and aren’t heathen anymore ) mages (Look at Tevinter, mages can’t be trusted: life confiment it is)
Now, I am not with that gent who was calling Fenris a liar: Tevinter is a slave-based magocracy with fewer restrictions on blood-magic then the rest of Thedas. But I still don’t see how it’s worse than the Qun or deserves any special treatment from an in-world perspective.
it's being better or worse than another nations policies was not the point of my comment but I'll give you my thoughts anyways.As far as I see it, they are somewhat ok with the idea, as long as it is not actually called slavery. Orlesians are not willing to call their serfdom like practises slavery because their version of the Chant is a very-antislavery and no one would want to be associated with the sinners who torched their beloved Andraste. I would argue the Existence of Tevinter is rather beneficial to the Modern White-divine led chantry, since it allows them to overlook their own shortcomings like treatment of the elves and mages: elves and destruction of the Dales (Well, at least they are not slaves and aren’t heathen anymore ) mages (Look at Tevinter, mages can’t be trusted: life confiment it is)
Now, I am not with that gent who was calling Fenris a liar: Tevinter is a slave-based magocracy with fewer restrictions on blood-magic then the rest of Thedas. But I still don’t see how it’s worse then than the Qun or deserve any special treatment from an in-world perspective.
Doesn't Tevinter had laws? Or citzens of the nation could just be rounded up for mage fodder?
Doesn't Tevinter had laws? Or citzens of the nation could just be rounded up for mage fodder?
It does: They way they are applied is rather questionable, to say the least.
it's being better or worse than another nations policies was not the point of my comment but I'll give you my thoughts anyways.
The Quns policies are the opposite of slavery, they apply value on everyone, no slaver would agree with that world view. Being a Mage is the wall that most people hit when disagreeing with them but what people ignore is that despite the qunaris harsh treatment, they genuinely respect them very highly because of their abilities. Does that negate their harsh practices? No but it's something to think about when saying they're much worse than the Tevinter magister who sacrifice innocent lives ONLY to better their own strength.
Thank you.
Qun is a communal philosophy, so the degree of its morality is connected to the value you are ready to assign to individual decisions and self-identifications. It’s good as long as you conform, but it doesn’t allow you the luxury of not conforming, even in private. That said I remember listing the very same characteristics of Qun as a prove that it’s somewhat viable and not evil in a much older thread after the Origins came out.
it's being better or worse than another nations policies was not the point of my comment but I'll give you my thoughts anyways.
The Quns policies are the opposite of slavery, they apply value on everyone, no slaver would agree with that world view. Being a Mage is the wall that most people hit when disagreeing with them but what people ignore is that despite the qunaris harsh treatment, they genuinely respect them very highly because of their abilities. Does that negate their harsh practices? No but it's something to think about when saying they're much worse than the Tevinter magister who sacrifice innocent lives ONLY to better their own strength.
Wait. slaves have no value? Since when that's the case? Bloody hell, you gotta feed 'em. Slaves provide valuable services!
Wait. slaves have no value? Since when that's the case? Bloody hell, you gotta feed 'em. Slaves provide valuable services!
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