27 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogdanov89]

Before i start i just gotta say i read about 10+ various guides on making different spell blades and god knows how many fighter+wizard+X char builds - but one thing that i really am missing in those guides is the actual focus on both CASTING damaging/evil/nasty spells AND hacking away with melee weapons.

I do wanna use spell buffs for melee fighting but i don't want to neglect using my badass nuking spells and crowd controls.

 

I mostly play the original campaigns (bioware made) with my brother over internet (no pvp), so the character i wanna make does not need to be "super uber strong" - but i do want to make at least a decent character that goes up to level 20 for now and can stand on his own.

 

I am trying to build a heavily armored melee (2handed and/or 1h+shield) character that cast even the highest levels of wizard/sorcerer spells during that combat (and in heavy armor).

As you guessed it, this is just for fun and not for any kind of world record breaking... except maybe in silliness!

 

What i (as a complete noob) thought of was something like this:

 

- Wizard/Sorcerer that can do all high level spells (at least 1 lvl9 spell), also using A LOT of Still Spell (for heavy armor) and probably constant use of defensive casting to avoid AoO against me. I know i can not still spell level 9 spells without the epic auto-still-spell feat, but im making a plan for a lvl20 char (atm).

Much damaging spells, buffing spells and evil crowd control spells along side melee hacking!

 

- Almost no dexterity (full plate), no wisdom, no charisma, medium/high constitution, i guess 20 intellect, lots of strength?

 

- A couple of Fighter levels for the armor/weapon (using heaviest armor and big weapons or tower shield) feats and various combat feats like cleave and weapon spec - also to take feats for Weapon master if going that road.

 

- Potentially a couple/many of Weapon Master or Barbarian or Red Dragon Disciple levels, to get all the sweet feats that are worth taking.

 

- Definitely must reach at least 16 BAB for full 4 attacks per round at/before level 20, so that my epic levels keep the 4 attacks per round regardless of what epic class levels i take.

 

What i imagined is me casting big AOE spells or crowd controll spells both before and during the fight (in heavy armor) while hacking apart some FOOLS with my leet flaming weapon that does nasty crits (keen buff, maybe even weapon master feats) OR going bastard+tower like a baws.

 

Anyway, after all that ranting, what i am hoping for is that you experienced NWN character creators can give me some advice on how can i make this character as good as possible... or as least bad as possible...

 

Which feats do you suggest for me to take... which classes to pick up... how far into the improved crit/overwhelming crit feats to go in... do i take the spell focus/spell penetration feats...  any suggestion on the class levelin order... do i go for weapon master (need whirlwind an other stuff for it)... what epic feats would be good for this combat approach... how much do i put into STR/Con/Intel?

 

Either way thank you very much for reading through this silly post, and i greatly welcome any advice you can offer for this full-plate-caster thing i am attempting

[Shadooow]

This was there already several times.

 

Its highly dependable on an environment you want to play.

 

For an OCs, single players or PWs with low-magic environment you can play as a pure wizard/sorcerer using bow or sword.

 

For a more serious modules, PWs with lvl 40 content or PvP, there is only few spellsword builds which would worked. Forget about WebShaman's Multiclassed Melee Mage, this is working only in OC. In a module like this you need 4base attacks per round (16BAB) and very high AB to hit anything at lvl 40 especially other players because average ac with +5ac items is usually 60+.

 

So if you are playing OC, you dont have to worry about build at all. Just start with wizard/sorcerer and then later add fighter or other full BAB class if you feel you need it.

 

For a 40lvl PWs, the only working combos are:

wizard/AA

wizard/cleric

(sorcerer works too but compared to the wizard is way worse choice because of the wizard's bonus feats and configurable spell selection)

 

with a CPP installed which give you a choice to take epic spells without 21caster level, there might be other choices such as paladin21/wizard18/monk1 but they arent so good actualy.

[MagicalMaster]

- Wizard/Sorcerer that can do all high level spells (at least 1 lvl9 spell), also using A LOT of Still Spell (for heavy armor) and probably constant use of defensive casting to avoid AoO against me. I know i can not still spell level 9 spells without the epic auto-still-spell feat, but im making a plan for a lvl20 char (atm).

 

This means you cannot take more than 3 non-wizard levels or 2 non-sorc levels.  Which means you'd want to something like 18 Wizard/2 Fighter potentially or 18 Sorcerer/2 Paladin.

 

- Definitely must reach at least 16 BAB for full 4 attacks per round at/before level 20, so that my epic levels keep the 4 attacks per round regardless of what epic class levels i take.

 

This is impossible.  Or rather you could take a maximum of 8 Wizard/Sorcerer levels and still accomplish this -- which means your spells are going to be awful.

 

Is there a reason you don't want to play a cleric?  They fit this definition perfectly -- plenty of self buffs, full plate, powerful AoEs/CCs/instant death/etc, and FAR FAR FAR better melee.  Like gazillions better melee.

 

If you're dead set on this idea you'd probably want something like this...

 

Human

16 Str

12 Dex

14 Con

10 Int

8 Wis

15 Cha

 

01 Sorc Toughness, Still Spell

02 Sorc

03 Paladin Exotic Proficiency

04 Paladin +1 Cha

05 Sorc

06 Sorc Focus Bastard Sword

07 Sorc

08 Sorc +1 Cha

09 Sorc Extend Spell

10 Sorc

11 Sorc

12 Sorc +1 Cha, Empower Spell

13 Sorc

14 Sorc

15 Sorc Maximize Spell

16 Sorc

17 Sorc

18 Sorc Combat Casting (for Improved Combat Casting)

19 Sorc

20 Sorc

 

You can still generally play it as a pure sorcerer, you're just behind by a spell level and have lower DCs.  Your melee presence will get progressively worse but it's at least functional for the first 6-8 levels.

[MrZork]

I agree with what has been said about the limitations of a spellsword build. E.g. max level 20 BAB for a mage who can cast level 9 spells is 11, etc. However, the Bioware campaigns are generally very forgiving, so one can still complete those modules with a melee-mage toon.

 

The one thing I don't think has been mentioned is that Moskwa's PnP Tenser's Transformation is really a must-have override for someone intent on playing a spellsword. In essence, it makes Tenser's Transformation usable for a mage and gives mages something of an answer to the cleric buffs that bring that class into melee respectability. It's not as good as the whole array of cleric buffs, but it's head-and-shoulders above the default Tenser's.

[WhiZard]

The polymorphs, even as is, already give mages plenty of a melee presence for a level 20 scope.  A strength build gets 20-22 strength, compare that to Tenser's 20 strength,  20 BAB vs. 10 BAB + Tenser's 10 AB, 4 APR, vs. Tenser's 4 APR (the AB levels for the bonus two attacks are higher AB than the standard progression and thus up the average AB per blow by +2 with haste or +5 without haste), +5 enhancement vs. Tenser's +3 enhancement.  A mage is not lagging that far behind.  The polymorph's AC is not that great, but the mage has damage shields.  Also, devastating critical is often not an issue in a level 20 setting.  Don't like Tenser, try out the shapechange forms.  Iron golem has immunity to critical hits and 300HP for your damage shields to counter.  Death slaad has elemental resistance and regeneration.

[MrZork]

Default Tenser's doesn't really keep up with melee classes because items don't merge. E.g., a fighter in the Bioware campaigns will have STR-enhancing items, in addition to potions and so on. By the end of the OC, a melee toon can keep STR undispellably capped, probably over 30. I certainly agree that the AB progression is fine with Tenser's and actually excellent in the epics. And, the AC while under TT can be somewhat ok; mid- to upper-30s given spell buffs in addition to the +4 Tenser's dodge bonus and a potential dodge bonus from Haste, if the PC casts it.

 

But, the problem with the default Tenser's isn't that it provides too little melee presence. The problem is that the polymorph system is poorly suited to mages or any other class with bonus spell slots from items and item bonuses to caster ability without spell effects that can compensate (even druids suffer from the former and from the latter before druid level 24). Because of that, each use of Tenser's means that the player 1) loses spells in any gear-granted slots and 2) has to waste time resetting spell slots. The former tends to undermine the strategy of using Tenser's to melee mobs and save spells for tougher encounters and bosses because the player has to be extra careful in which spells go into which slots or he will unshift to deal with a boss and find himself without the spells he had planned to use. The latter is just an annoyance. And, both issues lead to resting often to regain spells. Resting isn't significantly restricted in the Bioware campaigns, but resting and rebuffing so often makes for tedious gameplay, especially, as the OP indicates, if one is playing with another PC.

 

(That whole issue could have been addressed in scripting if BW had given us bonus spell slots available as an effect instead of just an item property. But, that's water under the bridge at this point.)

 

I totally agree that Shapechange is probably the best melee option for a pre-epic mage. IG shape is one I use regularly and the spell lasts 1 turn/level, which is long enough to deal with lots of enemies. But, it suffers from the same spell-slot-management issues that the default Tenser's does.

 

Anyway, I didn't intend to derail the discussion. I just wanted to point out that there is an easy-to-add alternative version of Tenser's Transformation which is a better option than the default for most spellswords.

[WhiZard]

Default Tenser's doesn't really keep up with melee classes because items don't merge. E.g., a fighter in the Bioware campaigns will have STR-enhancing items, in addition to potions and so on. By the end of the OC, a melee toon can keep STR undispellably capped, probably over 30. I certainly agree that the AB progression is fine with Tenser's and actually excellent in the epics. And, the AC while under TT can be somewhat ok; mid- to upper-30s given spell buffs in addition to the +4 Tenser's dodge bonus and a potential dodge bonus from Haste, if the PC casts it.

 

 

And what strength buffs does a level 20 mage have? Negative energy burst for +5 strength, and empowered bull's strength for up to 7 strength.  Yep, a mage can reach that +12 cap with long lasting strength buffs.

[Empyre65]

It sounds like what you need is Cleric with 1 or 2 levels of Fighter. A Cleric can always cast with heavy armor, has lots of good buffs, and a few good offensive spells as well. You won't get the 16 BAB you asked for, but Divine Power will give you the 4th attack at full AB instead of -15, so it's even better.

[MrZork]

And what strength buffs does a level 20 mage have? Negative energy burst for +5 strength, and empowered bull's strength for up to 7 strength.  Yep, a mage can reach that +12 cap with long lasting strength buffs.

Actually, not in the OC. Since a even a pure mage doesn't reach level 20 in the normal course of the OC, he won't get that +5 strength buff from NEB using an extra spell slot (or consumable) for polymorph and hotkey tricks. And, since empowered Bull's Strength will give less than a +7 bonus 75% of the time, that's also not a reliable buff. And, dispelling will still be a concern that item-wearers don't need to worry about.

However, even if the mage were able to self-buff to cap strength, that would not address the main issue I had with the default Tenser's Transformation.

But, the problem with the default Tenser's isn't that it provides too little melee presence. The problem is that the polymorph system is poorly suited [...]

Unless there is a way around the polymorph issues, I will still prefer the TT mod mentioned earlier for spellswords.

[Shadooow]

he won't get that +5 strength buff from NEB using an extra spell slot (or consumable) for polymorph and hotkey tricks.

 

wait are you two actually really suggesting to abuse an exploit? cast polymorph self to become zombie and then cast NEB via exploit to buff yourself?

[MannyJabrielle]

Before i start i just gotta say i read about 10+ various guides on making different spell blades and god knows how many fighter+wizard+X char builds - but one thing that i really am missing in those guides is the actual focus on both CASTING damaging/evil/nasty spells AND hacking away with melee weapons.

I do wanna use spell buffs for melee fighting but i don't want to neglect using my badass nuking spells and crowd controls.

 

I mostly play the original campaigns (bioware made) with my brother over internet (no pvp), so the character i wanna make does not need to be "super uber strong" - but i do want to make at least a decent character that goes up to level 20 for now and can stand on his own.

 

I am trying to build a heavily armored melee (2handed and/or 1h+shield) character that cast even the highest levels of wizard/sorcerer spells during that combat (and in heavy armor).

As you guessed it, this is just for fun and not for any kind of world record breaking... except maybe in silliness!

 

What i (as a complete noob) thought of was something like this:

 

- Wizard/Sorcerer that can do all high level spells (at least 1 lvl9 spell), also using A LOT of Still Spell (for heavy armor) and probably constant use of defensive casting to avoid AoO against me. I know i can not still spell level 9 spells without the epic auto-still-spell feat, but im making a plan for a lvl20 char (atm).

Much damaging spells, buffing spells and evil crowd control spells along side melee hacking!

 

- Almost no dexterity (full plate), no wisdom, no charisma, medium/high constitution, i guess 20 intellect, lots of strength?

 

- A couple of Fighter levels for the armor/weapon (using heaviest armor and big weapons or tower shield) feats and various combat feats like cleave and weapon spec - also to take feats for Weapon master if going that road.

 

- Potentially a couple/many of Weapon Master or Barbarian or Red Dragon Disciple levels, to get all the sweet feats that are worth taking.

 

- Definitely must reach at least 16 BAB for full 4 attacks per round at/before level 20, so that my epic levels keep the 4 attacks per round regardless of what epic class levels i take.

 

What i imagined is me casting big AOE spells or crowd controll spells both before and during the fight (in heavy armor) while hacking apart some FOOLS with my leet flaming weapon that does nasty crits (keen buff, maybe even weapon master feats) OR going bastard+tower like a baws.

 

Anyway, after all that ranting, what i am hoping for is that you experienced NWN character creators can give me some advice on how can i make this character as good as possible... or as least bad as possible...

 

Which feats do you suggest for me to take... which classes to pick up... how far into the improved crit/overwhelming crit feats to go in... do i take the spell focus/spell penetration feats...  any suggestion on the class levelin order... do i go for weapon master (need whirlwind an other stuff for it)... what epic feats would be good for this combat approach... how much do i put into STR/Con/Intel?

 

Either way thank you very much for reading through this silly post, and i greatly welcome any advice you can offer for this full-plate-caster thing i am attempting

 

For a level 20 cap, you simply cannot get both 16 BAB *and* 9th level arcane spells.  9th level spells require 17 to 18 wiz or sorc levels, leaving room for only enough full BAB class levels to get you 11 BAB for 3 mainhand attacks per round, 4 with haste, or 5 duel-wielding, 6 with haste.

For the OC though that's very decent and will do very well.  I'm currently replaying the OC with a fighter wizard, melee heavy, 4 fighter levels everything else wizard.  It's rather buff-heavy, but even then I have enough slots for a decent number of nuke spells.  I simply need to rest after every two or three encounters, which is doable since you can rest anywhere in the OC.

Since you want the best of both, I would say focus on wizard, and add in 2 fighter levels for weapon and armor proficiency, plus 2 bonus combat feats.  Use your wizard bonus feats for the spell related stuff.... still casting, evocation focus, spell penetration), then use the general feats for combat related stuff.  With wizard18/fighter2, you get a total of 12 feats (7 general, 2 fighter, 3 wizard).

I would say for a still-caster, sword-n-board for higher AC, duel-wield for more attacks.  Duel will require 3 feats for the most attacks, leaving just enough room for great cleave and a weapon focus.

However, I would go for dodge/mobility.  Mobility grants AC bonus vs AoO's which you will get a lot of with a melee caster.  Dodge grants +1 AC vs your current target as well, which is nice too.  Dodge requires 13 dex, so let another stat suffer for that.... I'd say charisma.  Charisma doesn't affect any saves, and you can always boost it back up with magic items when you need to pass persuade checks.

Constitution should be decent... it adds not just HP, but also affects your concentration skill.  I'd sacrifice wisdom for more points into str, con, int as well.  You can easily get mind spell protection, which will automatically protect against a good majority of will-save effects.  Str and Int should be your main focuses... at least 15 starting INT in to get 9th level spells by your later levels.  And you'll need as much as you can spare in STR to carry your armor (and possibly tower shield) and still have room to carry loot.

And choose your spells carefully.  There are a few spells which don't have a somatic component, and can be cast in armor without failing.  Darkness is the only one I know of for certain.... but is probably the most important one.  Make sure you have ultravision or true seeing effect on yourself... cast darkness on YOURSELF or close enough to you so that you are in the darkness, and enemies you are wacking with your weapon will be at a massive disadvantage unless they have TS or ultravision themselves.

If you add in 1 level of rogue, you would get your sneak-attack bonus damage against such targets as well even if they are "facing" you as they can't "see" you to negate the sneak.  If you use a pixie familiar, Tomi as a henchman, or your brother has rogue levels, they too would get sneak damage while in the darkness as well, provided they too have ultravision or TS on themselves.

 

And the last bit of advice I could think of for such a build.... pay attention to your spell slots and spell duration.  You can keep long duration buffs as normal castings and use them before battle when you can freely remove/re-equip your armor.  The only reason you may want to put long duration buffs into a still slot is to free up their normal level slots for stilled version of a lower level attack spell, such as making bull's strength a still-cast so you have more 2nd level slots for stilled magic missiles.

Or, instead of casting spells, use potions when possible.  Bull's, cat's, endurance, those are plentiful in potion or scroll form.

[MrZork]

wait are you two actually really suggesting to abuse an exploit? cast polymorph self to become zombie and then cast NEB via exploit to buff yourself?

 

Well, I didn't bring up the idea and I don't consider it to be greatest way to buff, especially in pre-epics where the cost in spell slots and tedium (and use of quick slots) is pretty high. I don't pretend to speak for WhiZard, but I suspect that he brought it up to explore the question of what's possible for mages in terms of strength buffs as much as anything.

 

Meanwhile, as long as we're being judgmental, I don't know how you draw the line is so clearly on how this technique constitutes abuse of an exploit. Simply doing something that isn't popular or well-known isn't the same as abusing an exploit. The spell clearly notes that it benefits undead and PCs regularly use it to buff undead summons. In multiplayer situations (PWs), I have seen it used to buff shifter PCs. So, this isn't exactly a secret. Doing something isn't abusing an exploit unless the game designers didn't anticipate its use and would have nerfed it if they had. In the case of NEB, the spell script leaves no doubt that the designers very specifically intended it to buff undead strength. The fact that someone makes use of a technique which not everyone else makes use of (or knows about) doesn't make that technique an abuae.

 

(BTW, I am not saying the NEB-polymorph thing couldn't be an exploit. I am saying that there are exploits and there are things that not a lot of people know about or use, for whatever reasons. You haven't explained how this isn't simply the latter.)

[Shadooow]

(BTW, I am not saying the NEB-polymorph thing couldn't be an exploit. I am saying that there are exploits and there are things that not a lot of people know about or use, for whatever reasons. You haven't explained how this isn't simply the latter.)

Casting a NEB on an undead race polymorphed player is not the exploit. Its the casting of the spell in polymorph which doesnt possess any spells. Obviously you cant cast NEB on yourself and we are talking here about an OC and not a PW where someone else might cast it on you. So the only way to do this is to abuse an exploit and cast the NEB after you polymorph into zombie which is not possible normally and is definitely an exploit. Exploit the Bioware tried to stop - see the commend above ClearAllActions line in polymorph self spell script - but havent tied all loose ends.

 

But of course, you might be one of the no-cheating in singleplayer camp, so it wont matter to you.

[HipMaestro]

[The following applies only to the original topic... Level 20 max.]

 

I don't care for pre-epic Still spells.  Not only with regard to 9th levels spells, but you can't extend anything wearing armor without casting failure... not to mention Empowered or Maximized spell versions.

 

If you take Imp Expertise, you won't need plate anyway.  I do like that feat for casting (though some have suggested in the past it is an exploit using it with arcane casting).  If you are not getting enough reciprocal damage with the improved version, you can switch to the +5 one.  Still not enough?  Turn off Expertise altogether.

 

Related question:  Do any of you vets have trouble toggling Expertise mode on/off?  Can there be anything in the queue when you try to toggle it on?  Does flanking effect its toggle? Sometimes it seems stubborn to turn that mode on. At times I must go invisible to turn it on. Anyhoo...

 

Your ability spread plan is going to be dangerous.  Then need for reflect saves is the most common save you will encounter so with a base DEX ability of 8, expect to get hit by everything that requires that save including traps.  IMO arcane casters can use all the DEX they can afford to allocate.  Fort saves will be your next problem and you will have a tough time wearing enough equipment with props that enhance both those saves sufficiently without sacrificing some very useful ones.

 

As others have already suggested, the polymorphs will outdo what the wiz/sorc BAB can achieve in casting form (we are addressing pure caster in this case), so if you want to hit --> polymorph... or *gulp*... True Strike for a round and a half at a clip (which btw cannot be stilled either in pre-epic).  Your polymorphs will all have a constitution that can buffer the damage taken vs. reciprocal damage inflicted better than the base class.  With stoneskin et al., your umber hulk, golem or dragon (for a few examples) will pierce up to 5 DR which is plenty for the OC (BTW, you will not achieve higher than level 18 in that module without very specific ECL exploit and even that only without sharing XP with summon, familiar or party helper throughout the entire adventure).

 

Without AutoStill I wouldn't consider throwing plate (or any armor at all for that matter) onto my caster.  (I've done the un-equip/re-equip routine until it has become stale.)

 

To echo others, if you want to wear plate, cast divine spells or use items to cast spells.

 

Another opinion from the peanut gallery...

[WhiZard]

wait are you two actually really suggesting to abuse an exploit? cast polymorph self to become zombie and then cast NEB via exploit to buff yourself?

 

There is actually a way to do this without the exploit.  Timestop + NEB + Polymorph Self (Zombie).  The burst will land after you have shifted, even though you cast it before the shift.

[MrZork]

Casting a NEB on an undead race polymorphed player is not the exploit. Its the casting of the spell in polymorph which doesnt possess any spells. Obviously you cant cast NEB on yourself and we are talking here about an OC and not a PW where someone else might cast it on you. So the only way to do this is to abuse an exploit and cast the NEB after you polymorph into zombie which is not possible normally and is definitely an exploit. Exploit the Bioware tried to stop - see the commend above ClearAllActions line in polymorph self spell script - but havent tied all loose ends.

But of course, you might be one of the no-cheating in singleplayer camp, so it wont matter to you.

So, you consider any spellcasting while polymorphed, even when triggered before the polymorph, to be abusing an exploit. Fair enough.

BTW, I am not among those who think there is no reasonable definition of cheating in single-player. I don't think the term has the broader moral implications in SP that it does in MP, but it can be meaningfully defined for both.


Back on topic, I haven't yet seen a spellsword build that most people would characterize as "kickass" in both spellcasting and melee, particularly in pre-epics. However, the Bioware campaigns are very forgiving in that regard. Between frequent rests and buffing, a pure or near-pure mage can melee with most mobs and some bosses. Just be aware that a non-pure mage won't likely be casting level 9 spells by the end of the OC.

[MannyJabrielle]

or *gulp*... True Strike for a round and a half at a clip (which btw cannot be stilled either in pre-epic).

 

True strike can't be stilled because it doesn't need to be stilled.  It doesn't have a somatic (wavey hands) component, so it doesn't incur spell failure from armor and/or shields.

[Aelis Eine]

I'd say install the PrC or play NWN2 with Kaedrin's pack and play a Spellsword. What you want can't really be done in Vanilla.

[Elhanan]

It is an older build, but one that aided me into making Mages more durable, versatile, and enjoyable: The Melee Mage

http://home.comcast....ild301814.html

[Shadooow]

Bogdanov, I have a good build for you. Its not what you want exactly but its perfect spellsword type of build that I played once on a PW with quite a success.

 

Its sorcerer/monk spellfist. Its a build which rely on basically all abilities and buffs but its very versatile and has lots of attacks. Now I played this on vanilla server where was just powerful gloves, but if you play with community patch this build can be even more powerfull if you enable the BOOST_GLOVES switch. Then you can cast (greater) magic weapon and flame blade on your gloves. I wouldnt recommend kamas because they are very feat consuming. Instead get Circle Kick (provided you are running game via NWNCX with CPP) and you get one more attack everytime you are surrounded.

 

Basically you start as a sorcerer and play normally until level 5 where you take a first monk level and then you can go melee. In my build I used also few paladin leves for Divine Might and Divine Shield but in a 20lvl environment this doesnt have much sense, but 1level of paladin can get handy for the saving throw bonuses and +1bab (which second monk level provides as well with deflect arrows feat).

 

So probably, for OC it might be better to build it as a wizard/monk and once you get enough spellcasting you can take Shou Disciple prestige class from CPP for higher unarmed damage.

 

So basically:

1-3 wizard

4: monk

5-X wizard

X shou

 

race: elf best suited but any except halforc

stats: dexterity 15+, strength 10 or 12, intelligence 16, constitution 12, wisdom 14, charisma 8 +-

 

Specialize into illusion school, and get: silent spell, extend spell, empower spell, maximize spell (silent first will enable to cast more time 1.lvl offensive spells) then the weapon finesse, circle kick, weapon focus (unarmed) and dodge if you intent to take the Shou Disciple class. Except that: toughness, improved critical (will be available quite late unfortunately)

[Nick The Noodle]

Before i start i just gotta say i read about 10+ various guides on making different spell blades and god knows how many fighter+wizard+X char builds - but one thing that i really am missing in those guides is the actual focus on both CASTING damaging/evil/nasty spells AND hacking away with melee weapons.

I do wanna use spell buffs for melee fighting but i don't want to neglect using my badass nuking spells and crowd controls.

 

I mostly play the original campaigns (bioware made) with my brother over internet (no pvp), so the character i wanna make does not need to be "super uber strong" - but i do want to make at least a decent character that goes up to level 20 for now and can stand on his own.

 

I am trying to build a heavily armored melee (2handed and/or 1h+shield) character that cast even the highest levels of wizard/sorcerer spells during that combat (and in heavy armor).

As you guessed it, this is just for fun and not for any kind of world record breaking... except maybe in silliness!

 

What i (as a complete noob) thought of was something like this:

 

- Wizard/Sorcerer that can do all high level spells (at least 1 lvl9 spell), also using A LOT of Still Spell (for heavy armor) and probably constant use of defensive casting to avoid AoO against me. I know i can not still spell level 9 spells without the epic auto-still-spell feat, but im making a plan for a lvl20 char (atm).

Much damaging spells, buffing spells and evil crowd control spells along side melee hacking!

 

- Almost no dexterity (full plate), no wisdom, no charisma, medium/high constitution, i guess 20 intellect, lots of strength?

 

- A couple of Fighter levels for the armor/weapon (using heaviest armor and big weapons or tower shield) feats and various combat feats like cleave and weapon spec - also to take feats for Weapon master if going that road.

 

- Potentially a couple/many of Weapon Master or Barbarian or Red Dragon Disciple levels, to get all the sweet feats that are worth taking.

 

- Definitely must reach at least 16 BAB for full 4 attacks per round at/before level 20, so that my epic levels keep the 4 attacks per round regardless of what epic class levels i take.

 

What i imagined is me casting big AOE spells or crowd controll spells both before and during the fight (in heavy armor) while hacking apart some FOOLS with my leet flaming weapon that does nasty crits (keen buff, maybe even weapon master feats) OR going bastard+tower like a baws.

 

Anyway, after all that ranting, what i am hoping for is that you experienced NWN character creators can give me some advice on how can i make this character as good as possible... or as least bad as possible...

 

Which feats do you suggest for me to take... which classes to pick up... how far into the improved crit/overwhelming crit feats to go in... do i take the spell focus/spell penetration feats...  any suggestion on the class levelin order... do i go for weapon master (need whirlwind an other stuff for it)... what epic feats would be good for this combat approach... how much do i put into STR/Con/Intel?

 

Either way thank you very much for reading through this silly post, and i greatly welcome any advice you can offer for this full-plate-caster thing i am attempting

As stated before, you cannot have +16BAB at Level 20 and have level 9 spells.  You can have 3 basic attacks and level 9 spells or 4 attacks and level 8 spells.

However, you may want to try the following concept, the Half Elf Paladin/Sorceror/Arcane Archer.

 

Level 1 stats: Strength 14, Dexterity 14, Constitution 10, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 14, Charisma 15 (20 at Level 20).

 

1.  Paladin 1.              Point Blank Shot.

2.  Paladin 2.

3.  Paladin 3.              Rapid Shot

4.  Paladin 4.             +1 Charisma.

5.  Paladin 5.

6.  Paladin 6.              Weapon Focus Longbow

7.  Sorceror 1.            Take True Strike and Identify. True Strike can be used wearing armour without penalty.

8.  Arcane Archer 1.  +1 Charisma.

9.  Arcane Archer 2.  Improved Critical Longbow.  Getting to this stage can be difficult, but life becomes much easier with double critical damage and 3 fireballs.

10. Arcane Archer 3.

11. Arcane Archer 4.

12. Arcane Archer 5.  Power Attack as required for Divine Might. +1 Charisma.

13. Arcane Archer 6.

14. Arcane Archer 7.

15. Paladin 7.             Divine Might.

16. Arcane Archer 8. +1 Charisma.

17. Arcane Archer 9.

18. Paladin 8.             Divine Shield

19. Paladin 9.             Because +3 from your Divine Favour spell is better than the Arrow of Death in my experience.   

20. Arcane Archer 10. +1 Charisma.

 

First the good news.  In the OC you get four really useful pieces of henchmen kit giving you +4 strength, + 4 dexterity and +9 charisma.  These are free.  By level 20 you can pick up a +3 Charisma cloak, Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, +3 Composite Longbow and Boots of Haste relatively easily.  You should have money to buy magical arrows as well.

 

Normally, this means that you will be shooting 6 arrows a round, hitting at +19BAB +5AA bonus, +3 from the bow and +3 from dexterity, and -2 for using Quick Draw.

That's a mighty +28.  If every arrow hits, excluding criticals (which could raise the damage significantly) you will be doing damage averaging 81 hitpoints per round, and is without using magical arrows that would do an extra 21points per round a round.

 

Now for the really good news.  With True Strike your arrows for one round will rarely miss.  With Divine Favour and Divine Might running, you get a further 14 damage per arrow, therefore 84 extra damage if all hit (more if any hits are criticals).  That's an average of 165.  Divine Might will last for 11 rounds (Charisma is 32) and Divine Favour for 10, so that you will have 9 effect rounds with these two running.  Even without True Strike and Divine Favour, you will still be doing an extra +11 per arrow for an average of 147 per round for 9 rounds.  A level 20 wizard can do more concentrated damage with maximised Isaac's Greater Missile Storm, but a wizard will quickly run out of those.   

 

Unfortunately there is bad news, and that is in getting the character up to level 20.  I really missed having the cleave feat, especially a low levels.  It was often the case of halving your melee hits per round.   As a Paladin I normally take power attack and cleave at level 1 (I usually play human), weapon focus in longsword at level 3 and divine might at level 6 (in the OC at least as level 6 when you can get henchmen items).  Further warrior types are rewarded far less experience than other classes.  For example, when starting the OC, when I go back to finish off the goblins in the prelude, I only get 17 for each kill.  A Cleric gets 75 and a wizard 42 iirc.  Once you reach level 9, it becomes much easier, with your improved critical and 3 fireballs, but until then, I found life hard while testing this character concept.  If I had not been played the OC a gazillion times before, and had not the stone of recall, I would have died numerous times.  I normally play with a lower dexterity and this hurt my strength, especially for carrying objects.  This was negated by bags of holding at higher levels, once money was less tight.

 

Some modules are easier.  In Kingmaker you are forced to take two henchmen and these can act as a barrier between you and the target, so they are effectively pinned down.  

 

Further, there is another consideration to take into account.  By focusing on charisma, you will never gain the awesome Devastating Critical feat.

[Nick The Noodle]

As stated before, you cannot have +16BAB at Level 20 and have level 9 spells.  You can have 3 basic attacks and level 9 spells or 4 attacks and level 8 spells.

However, you may want to try the following concept, the Half Elf Paladin/Sorceror/Arcane Archer.

 

Level 1 stats: Strength 14, Dexterity 14, Constitution 10, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 14, Charisma 15 (20 at Level 20).

 

1.  Paladin 1.              Point Blank Shot.

2.  Paladin 2.

3.  Paladin 3.              Rapid Shot

4.  Paladin 4.             +1 Charisma.

5.  Paladin 5.

6.  Paladin 6.              Weapon Focus Longbow

7.  Sorceror 1.            Take True Strike and Identify. True Strike can be used wearing armour without penalty.

8.  Arcane Archer 1.  +1 Charisma.

9.  Arcane Archer 2.  Improved Critical Longbow.  Getting to this stage can be difficult, but life becomes much easier with double critical damage and 3 fireballs.

10. Arcane Archer 3.

11. Arcane Archer 4.

12. Arcane Archer 5.  Power Attack as required for Divine Might. +1 Charisma.

13. Arcane Archer 6.

14. Arcane Archer 7.

15. Paladin 7.             Divine Might.

16. Arcane Archer 8. +1 Charisma.

17. Arcane Archer 9.

18. Paladin 8.             Divine Shield

19. Paladin 9.             Because +3 from your Divine Favour spell is better than the Arrow of Death in my experience.   

20. Arcane Archer 10. +1 Charisma.

 

First the good news.  In the OC you get four really useful pieces of henchmen kit giving you +4 strength, + 4 dexterity and +9 charisma.  These are free.  By level 20 you can pick up a +3 Charisma cloak, Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, +3 Composite Longbow and Boots of Haste relatively easily.  You should have money to buy magical arrows as well.

 

Normally, this means that you will be shooting 6 arrows a round, hitting at +19BAB +5AA bonus, +3 from the bow and +3 from dexterity, and -2 for using Quick Draw.

That's a mighty +28.  If every arrow hits, excluding criticals (which could raise the damage significantly) you will be doing damage averaging 81 hitpoints per round, and is without using magical arrows that would do an extra 21points per round a round.

 

Now for the really good news.  With True Strike your arrows for one round will rarely miss.  With Divine Favour and Divine Might running, you get a further 14 damage per arrow, therefore 84 extra damage if all hit (more if any hits are criticals).  That's an average of 165.  Divine Might will last for 11 rounds (Charisma is 32) and Divine Favour for 10, so that you will have 9 effect rounds with these two running.  Even without True Strike and Divine Favour, you will still be doing an extra +11 per arrow for an average of 147 per round for 9 rounds.  A level 20 wizard can do more concentrated damage with maximised Isaac's Greater Missile Storm, but a wizard will quickly run out of those.   

 

Unfortunately there is bad news, and that is in getting the character up to level 20.  I really missed having the cleave feat, especially a low levels.  It was often the case of halving your melee hits per round.   As a Paladin I normally take power attack and cleave at level 1 (I usually play human), weapon focus in longsword at level 3 and divine might at level 6 (in the OC at least as level 6 when you can get henchmen items).  Further warrior types are rewarded far less experience than other classes.  For example, when starting the OC, when I go back to finish off the goblins in the prelude, I only get 17 for each kill.  A Cleric gets 75 and a wizard 42 iirc.  Once you reach level 9, it becomes much easier, with your improved critical and 3 fireballs, but until then, I found life hard while testing this character concept.  If I had not been played the OC a gazillion times before, and had not the stone of recall, I would have died numerous times.  I normally play with a lower dexterity and this hurt my strength, especially for carrying objects.  This was negated by bags of holding at higher levels, once money was less tight.

 

Some modules are easier.  In Kingmaker you are forced to take two henchmen and these can act as a barrier between you and the target, so they are effectively pinned down.  

 

Further, there is another consideration to take into account.  By focusing on charisma, you will never gain the awesome Devastating Critical feat.

A couple of points I failed to mention above.

 

If you take a Pixie familiar as a sorcerer, you gain some ability to pick locks and find traps.  However, the only thing you still really lack are thief skills.  This will hurt in some modules, eg A Dance With Rogues, where stealth is a paramount ability to survive.  

 

Sorcerer spells should be taken with consideration to usefulness at higher levels.  IMHO, only the Level 1 spells: Identify, True strike and Endure Elements remain valid at higher levels.  Endure Elements is a Paladin spell as well so the other two are usually a more preferable spell choice, especially when money is tight, and the c100gp to discover the actual piece of kit is harsh.. 

[Terrorble]

I did a spellsword/heavy-armor caster once that I enjoyed a lot.  Problem for you is what was mentioned before: if you're trying to be a fighter and a wizard by level 20, you won't be much of either.  My build certainly didn't mature until at least level 30. 

 

It went generally like this: 6fighter/5WM/8wizard/1WM to get to level20.  Then continued wizard until I took my last WM level at 40 to max discipline and stuff like that.  Personally, I put a lot of stat points in intelligence to focus on the spell side of things.  Of course, the build needs still spell, and the epic still spell feats.  

 

Playing it was great.  I augmented my spell slots with haste and lesser spell breach wands, and a few different scrolls.  You could fight well with good damage and spells when needed, or switch to tenser's to really boost AB.

 

It's fundamental weakness had to be AC and hitpoints - still a mage at heart.  But with greater sanctuary, invisibility, darkness, damage shields, elemental protections, spell mantles, epic mage armor, epic warding, shadow shield, mind blank, prot from spells, etc. you could generally last long enough to get the job done.

[HipMaestro]

A 20-level melee mage would scoff at such a so-called "bad-ass" and use an indispellable, fully-buffed Tenser elf or Iron Golem to ravage a build like this.  An AA, typically weak unless tied to RDD, would be laying their back from a single successful forceful hand, That's why high-level mages get nerfed everywhere.  There is no counter.  Hit 'em and you die, miss 'em and you die.

 

Terrorble is right.  Diluting magical potential in a pre-epic build just gimps it.  The plate means nothing and Still spells clog up other more productive metamagic enhancements.

[Nick The Noodle]

A 20-level melee mage would scoff at such a so-called "bad-ass" and use an indispellable, fully-buffed Tenser elf or Iron Golem to ravage a build like this.  An AA, typically weak unless tied to RDD, would be laying their back from a single successful forceful hand, That's why high-level mages get nerfed everywhere.  There is no counter.  Hit 'em and you die, miss 'em and you die.

 

Terrorble is right.  Diluting magical potential in a pre-epic build just gimps it.  The plate means nothing and Still spells clog up other more productive metamagic enhancements.

An AA is not weak in the OC.  Two Henchmen items giving up to +9 charisma prevents that with the Paladin AA with divine might.

 

The RDD option is really only available over L20 as an uber class.  This is because devastating critical is an epic feat and needs a shed load of other feats first, including an epic one.  Of course, that is assuming criticals work against the target you are shooting at.  With many creatures, Divine Might is the more reliable choice of dispatching said foes..