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Trying to make a bad ass plate-melee-caster (from lvl1 to 20) :)


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#26
HipMaestro

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An AA is not weak in the OC.  Two Henchmen items giving up to +9 charisma prevents that with the Paladin AA with divine might.

 

The RDD option is really only available over L20 as an uber class.  This is because devastating critical is an epic feat and needs a shed load of other feats first, including an epic one.  Of course, that is assuming criticals work against the target you are shooting at.  With many creatures, Divine Might is the more reliable choice of dispatching said foes..

By "weak" I was referring to low STR (not to mention AA's historically lame Fort saves)... not damage potential... not killing power  Enchanted arrows alone provide sufficient ranged damage and DR penetration. But AA will need to stay focused on DEX because all the special ranged touch attacks use DEX for the DC (unless one decides to just pass on those) and to reach those lofty AB levels needed to vie with the highest AC targets.

 

There are NO weak builds in the OC, relatively speaking.  Optimized builds are not needed in a learning campaign.  However, with a max of 18 levels, every level multiclassed significantly detracts from the strengths of the primary class without the convenience of epic class levels to regain what was sacrificed during pre-epic. Skill dumps are one advantage, but that decision still comes at the cost of diluting the primary class.  Pick your poison and swallow.

 

Divine Might is strictly used for damage and has no effect on attack power.  Look to DEX for that consideration in any non-zen archer. Rather than using pally/sorc/AA, a cleric/arcane caster/AA is stronger yet, benefiting from not only the DM damage buff, but AB boosts that can easily reach the AB cap, Divine Power's full AB free attack and domain advantages, just to mention a few.  However, balancing damage-to-attack optimization is dependent on the environment.  Higher damage vs.mediocre AC foes or ultra AB vs. ultra AC targets (bosses & PvP).  Even using RDD, an AA's DevCrit DC (max of about 43 with capped STR items) pales when compared to any typical (STR-focused) DevCrit build with DC of 50+.

 



#27
Nick The Noodle

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By "weak" I was referring to low STR (not to mention AA's historically lame Fort saves)... not damage potential... not killing power  Enchanted arrows alone provide sufficient ranged damage and DR penetration. But AA will need to stay focused on DEX because all the special ranged touch attacks use DEX for the DC (unless one decides to just pass on those) and to reach those lofty AB levels needed to vie with the highest AC targets.

 

There are NO weak builds in the OC, relatively speaking.  Optimized builds are not needed in a learning campaign.  However, with a max of 18 levels, every level multiclassed significantly detracts from the strengths of the primary class without the convenience of epic class levels to regain what was sacrificed during pre-epic. Skill dumps are one advantage, but that decision still comes at the cost of diluting the primary class.  Pick your poison and swallow.

 

Divine Might is strictly used for damage and has no effect on attack power.  Look to DEX for that consideration in any non-zen archer. Rather than using pally/sorc/AA, a cleric/arcane caster/AA is stronger yet, benefiting from not only the DM damage buff, but AB boosts that can easily reach the AB cap, Divine Power's full AB free attack and domain advantages, just to mention a few.  However, balancing damage-to-attack optimization is dependent on the environment.  Higher damage vs.mediocre AC foes or ultra AB vs. ultra AC targets (bosses & PvP).  Even using RDD, an AA's DevCrit DC (max of about 43 with capped STR items) pales when compared to any typical (STR-focused) DevCrit build with DC of 50+.

My apologies for misunderstanding you.  Indeed you are correct in that the Half Elf Paladin option I posted is indeed weak in strength.

 

I had the same problem with Gladiatrix at low levels.  In that module, as I'm sure you know, you need to be a human level 1 fighter with a high charisma.  I thought we are looking for a Fighter/Paladin combo, and set out my feats accordingly to get divine might at level 6 and weapon specialisation in bastard sword at level 7.  However, getting to level 6 was difficult, because I had put 6 points into wisdom (to eventually gain level 4 paladin spells), which effected my strength.  The impact of this was feeling that I was playing a module for a character 1 level higher than I should be.  Sure, once I had reached level 6, and especially level 7, life became much easier. However, due to such experiences, I'm pretty sure some multiclass buils are not viable for many modules, simply because it would prove impossible to reach the higher levels.

 

An example of one that works in the OC, but not often elsewhere is the monk/wizard/palemaster.  You take wizard level 1, specifically to get the rod of frost that will get you into all those annoying chests, and give you the ability to kill (low hp creatures) fairly easily.  You take a monk level at level 2, to gain cleave, +2 on all saves, 5 ranks in tumble to give you +1 dodge ac, a further +2 dodge ac from 14 wis, some weird weapons and combat options, and the ability to use some useful extra robes and boots.  At level 3 and 4 you take wizard, and at level 5 you become a palemaster (to get +1 spell casting ability and +1 natural ac).  You then remain a wizard until level 16, giving you level 8 spells, and abilities and saving throws well beyond a straight L16 wizard.  At that point, life becomes steadily harder until level 21.  This is because to get BAB +11, ie 3 attacks per round, you will need to take 3 further levels in monk and another in PM.  At this level, the abilities gained are not fantastic or even really very good.  You do get better HD, and if you saved some skill points, +3 dodge ac from tumble at level 17 if you take monk at that level.  However, the ability to animate dead once per day from the level 2 PM class pales into insignificance next to another level 9 spell that a straight wizard gets.  A level 14 Wizard/level 1 Palemaster/Level 1 Monk is usually superior to a level 16 Wizard.  A level 14 wizard/L4 Monk/ L2 PM is not superior to a L20 Wizard most of the time.  However, come L21 life changes for the better.  Whether you take another level of wizard (for the bonus feat), or a level of PM (to get to L10 PM quicker), you gain another level of spell casting.  The next level you take the opposite option (PM at L22 if wizard at L21 or vice versa) and you are now casting level 9 spells. Now you can rise in levels in PM, perhaps taking a level of monk at L27, L32 and certainly L37.  Your level 40 PM20, Monk 5, wizard 15 will certainly be an extremely powerful character, but getting there is fraught with peril.

 

A specific example is in Revenge is Bitter Sweet, a module I've never been able to complete without dying a gazillion times.  Actually I've never completed it.  For this module I had to tailor a specific character to have a chance of winning.  In this case I chose an Elf Ranger as the starting point, ie stealth and search with decent hitting power.  I was going to add assassin at level 6 and 7, shadow dancer at level 8, and then continue as an assassin, with one more ranger level at some point to gain a spell and +1 BAB.  The module proved so difficult for me personally, that instead of going from level 5 ranger to level 1 assassin at level 6, I went to level 6 ranger, because that 2nd attack per round was so necessary.  It should be noted that I had cheated in this module by using the debugmode to get extra money for a haste item, and I still could not do this module.  I'm just less capable than I care to admit :).

 

This is why many of the 'perfect' builds are not so.

 

In another example, I cannot complete A Dance With Rogues without being primarily a rogue.  (Albeit your legs are invisible, an Elf Rogue16/Blackguard4 works really well,  perhaps even better than a Human Rogue14/Paladin2/Blackguard 4).

 

Builds need to be considered in context to the world they 'live' in, and the 'handlers' personality and intelligence.



#28
Prizzard

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Straight Stalwart Battle Sorcerer if anyone ever makes it a class