25 réponses à ce sujet

[cap and gown]

The Suicide Mission in ME2 is perhaps one of the most satisfying missions in the entire series. (Well, at least until you get the big Human-Reaper reveal.) Having the team work together, selecting specialists for certain tasks, and the uncertainty of whether they will survive or not (at least if you are playing bind your first time) all contribute to the suspense and immersion. I suspect that a good deal of the disappointment with Priority Earth was that people were expecting another mission like the Suicide Mission.

 

The problem, of course, is that if you can kill off any and all your squad mates, later games are going to be vastly complicated by trying to come up with different versions, one that has a squad mate alive, and one that doesn't. (Which is even further complicated by having to take into account whether they were loyal or not.)

 

So how could you do another Suicide Mission like game, but not create all the complications that might surface? I don't know for sure if the two are compatible, but perhaps there is a way.

 

First, I think you would need to limit the size of the team. A smaller team not only means fewer variations to account for, but also allows more time to be devoted to each character so that they are more well developed. Garrus, for instance, is not well developed in ME2 unless you are romancing him. He ends up spending most of his time "calibrating."

 

Second, I think you would need to limit who and how many squad mates can die. On Virmire you could lose two squadmates: Ashley/Kaidan and Wrex. With the VS situation, Ashley and Kaidan play the same plot role in later games and all that needs to change is their individual dialogue to reflect their differing personalities. With Wrex, his presence or absence makes a huge difference later on. So, maybe have two squad mates that can be interchanged with each other later on. Additionally, plan out a squad mates' replacement for later on so that whether that squad mate dies or not, they are still replaced in a later title, only the reason for the replacement changes. For instance, if Mordin dies or lives, he is still replaced by Padok Wiks in the later game, in one case because he died, in the second because he has moved on.

 

At any rate, I hope we can see something like the SM in the future, but it needs to be better planned on how they will deal with the consequences in later titles.

 

[Excella Gionne]

The problem with priority: Earth is that everything you do in the game is irrelevant as long as you have a high EMS. Nothing plays out differently besides cinematics and certain Catalyst dialogues and ending choices regarding your EMS.

[Remix-General Aetius]

what makes Priority Earth so painful is how lazily it looks to have been put together. it should have expanded on the Suicide Mission squad mechanics, otherwise what's the point of saving them when you don't see them anywhere? even if Suicide Mission never existed, Priority Earth would still suck.

 

"hmm how do we get rid of 8+ guys? oh I know, turn them into war assets"

 

L-A-M-E

the "team Mako & team Hammerhead" was an extremely poor excuse at recreating SM.

[von uber]

Priority earth for me is the worst section of me3 if not the trilogy.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It all boils down to Priority Earth and the ending. After your first play through the EC, you're not going to argue with the Catalyst anymore. What's the point? You're going to go to the "high level" conversation and get the Original Ending dialogue except for the line "including the Geth" which was removed because it was too bleak. And if you ignore the idiotic slide presentations at the end, all the endings are still virtually identical except for the color on your screen: you die, the relays explode, and the Normandy crashes. If your EMS is high enough, you get a gasp in Destroy.

[cap and gown]

Um, are we going to turn this thread into a debate about the ending too? One sentence in the OP is all people can focus on? I was looking for ideas on how to do something like the SM without the mess it created, not to rehash just how much people hate ME3's ending.

[congokong]

Great, more ME3 ending complaining. And you know there would be people complaining if they just copy/pasted the suicide mission layout in ME3.

 

I see 2 ways to resolve your issue.

 

1. Don't have the endangered characters in future games.

 

2. Pull a Dragon Age and just revive anyone you feel like.

[KrrKs]

BSN rule no. 1 was: All threads will eventually get derailed?

 

Anyway, about the OT.

Mapped onto the suicide mission this would probably translate to:

-no hold the line segment or at least not with the possibility of someone dying.

-probably restrictions on the choice of who to take as tech/biotic expert (e.g. only actual tech users can go to the vent, not Jacob)

-expert-survivors of one part probably can't participate in the next (and dead ones anyway)

-probably more forced one-or-the-other deaths

 

Yep, i could live very well with such an mechanic.

[Remix-General Aetius]

Um, are we going to turn this thread into a debate about the ending too? One sentence in the OP is all people can focus on? I was looking for ideas on how to do something like the SM without the mess it created, not to rehash just how much people hate ME3's ending.

 

I'm definitely not talkin about the ending, I'm talkin about how much Priority Earth is lacking.

[congokong]

I'm definitely not talkin about the ending, I'm talkin about how much Priority Earth is lacking.

You're splitting hairs. Priority Earth is the last mission of the game. Most "ME ending complaints" involve that mission in some form.

[von uber]

The final mission as a suicide mechanic could have been rather good.
You could have had a diversion team(s) to go alternate routes; a team to keep the reapers back as you head to the beam; another team to go on the beam rush alongside and so on.
War assets etc could play a part in how many survive - you could even be clever and tie it in to how many race specific assets you had (ignored the asari? Bye bye liara).

A lot could have been done really.

[Deathsaurer]

The only way to avoid it is to save it for the last game in a series. They shouldn't have branded ME2 a "suicide mission". That's where they set themselves up for failure in the long run. If everyone lived regardless everyone would complain that it was unrealistic and too many plot shields etc. So you have the option of people dying complicating the next game in the series. Just don't set yourself up for that sort of situation in the middle of a series.

[Bill Casey]

Um, are we going to turn this thread into a debate about the ending too? One sentence in the OP is all people can focus on? I was looking for ideas on how to do something like the SM without the mess it created, not to rehash just how much people hate ME3's ending.

 

Simple...

You do the suicide mission for the ending of the trilogy...

[Han Shot First]

Assuming the next game is a sequel, I think you go about it by saving that suicide mission for the final mission of the final game. You also keep the same core cast throughout the trilogy, minus a casualty or two along the way and perhaps with an addition or two in sequels. ME2 created too many variables by introducing an entirely new cast of companion characters, all of whom were potential casualties.

 

With a future trilogy I think it is better to present the player with a couple Virmire type scenarios in the first and second games, where you might lose a single squadmate but you won't lose several. Save the brutal 'everyone can die' mission for the finale of the third game.

[themikefest]

Is having another suicide mission necessary? I would prefer that throughout the trilogy(if there is gonna be one) that we get one or 2 deaths  in each game similair to  what Han Shot First mentioned above.  At the end of the 3rd game have it similiar to DAO.

[Remix-General Aetius]

You're splitting hairs. Priority Earth is the last mission of the game. Most "ME ending complaints" involve that mission in some form.

 

that's because I'm a hairsplitter, and I know exactly what I'm talking about as opposed to those "most ME ending complaints" that REALLY talk about the starbrat and the color choices, as opposed to the mission BEFORE it - but they're too stupid to clarify.

[Jorji Costava]

Beyond the already discussed issue of having too many characters to account for in the suicide mission, I also think that the fundamental mechanic behind the mission (disloyal=dead) is fundamentally flawed. How does whether or not Shepard has earned So-and-so's trust affect the likelihood that So-and-so will be killed by a stray bullet at some specified point during the mission? Isn't it more likely that a disloyal squadmate would either ditch you or betray you outright than die at some random point just because Shepard failed to resolve his/her Freudian issues?

 

I've also suggested before (although the suggestion has never gotten any traction) that squadmate deaths during a suicide mission should at least some times be a trade-off; for instance, you can choose to designate squadmates X and Y to form some kind of distraction team. Doing so will get X and Y killed, but might make some other objective much easier to accomplish. We saw this kind of mechanic at play at Virmire, where you had the opportunity to either disable the alarms, resulting in more enemies for you to fight, or trigger them at the far side of the base, making things easier for you but resulting in Kirrahe's death.

[jtav]

Minor correction. I've never had the alarms do anything either way. Kirrahe's death has always been tied to not destroying the flyers for me.

[Jorji Costava]

I haven't done the mission in a while, but according to the Wikia if you trigger the alarms Kirrahe and most of his team will die. Not 100% sure if this is correct; perhaps anyone who's done this mission recently can verify?

[CptFalconPunch]

I haven't done the mission in a while, but according to the Wikia if you trigger the alarms Kirrahe and most of his team will die. Not 100% sure if this is correct; perhaps anyone who's done this mission recently can verify?

There are several points throughout virmire where you can help kirrahe. You can destroy commnications, drones, refueling posts and trigger the alarms on you.

I don't know for sure, but if you don't do most of these kirrahe will die, and some of his men :/

[Fixers0]

Kirrahe only dies if you don't destroy the Geth flyers, Commander Rentola and four other Salarians will always surive.

[Massa FX]

To OP: the simple truth? Do standalone games. Never have sequels or spin-offs.

Boring and too common right?

I think genre stretching, colliding, innovating is what Bioware does. Sure it creates problems but having controversy begets growth.

I'm all for that AND more. I want more random not less. More options. More plot twists. More more everything.

Yes at the same time nothing lame.

Too much to ask for? Maybe.

[shepskisaac]

Um, are we going to turn this thread into a debate about the ending too? One sentence in the OP is all people can focus on? I was looking for ideas on how to do something like the SM without the mess it created, not to rehash just how much people hate ME3's ending.

Well, you kind of already covered all that preventive actions they could've done. Smaller squad, plot armors, pre-planned replacements. I could only add better resource-splicing in ME3 - Garrus and Tali should not have been squadmates for the 3rd time. Their 3rd-time spots should've gone to one of the characters that ended up being squadates only once in ME2. Some of the critically important to the main plot - like Miranda. Legion should've been the second.

[Dubozz]

The whole point of Suicide Mission is to have future content to reward you.

[Farangbaa]

Have everybody die except the PC.