182 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Phoenix]

Nothing new here. Rogue in DA2 could summon flasks and blink. Overthinking about these things isn't a very healthy attitude. The alternative would be to make these classes just walk to a target and autoattack and the only skill that would make sense would be "warcry".

 

I already gave examples of a good alternative (Dragon's Dogma). The approach of Origins was good too but then, Dragon Age has steered far from slower-paced more realistic fighting so we're talking about about a common ground which I thought those first two gifs in my OP were good examples of, they're exaggerated but more down to earth. They say the character might have above-human strength but that he's not using magic.

 

 

"Jump teleporting"? She jumps a ludicrous distance if we use real life as a comparison, but she still jumps. The camera just seems to be a bit slow in following it.

 

Looks like the evade ability that rogues had in DA2 to me.

 

It was teleportation. She disappears for a few seconds before appearing meters back and appears through mist (hence me calling it a magical visual).

 

 

No. I find it ridiculous that people get annoyed in a game world where Sandal enchantmentizes (new word?) our weapons with awesome abilities.

If it annoys you, just pretend Sandal has imbued your weapons and armor with enchantments that greatly augment Seras agility so that she can do remarkable backflips, or buffs Iron Bulls axe so that it splits the earth. Enchantment!!!

 

Ummm, I'm perfectly fine with Sandal's enchantments, I don't see why you seem so angry since it's just a discussion point. I'm aware the game is too far into development to be changed now. 

 

 

My reply to this would be "have you played origins?" Some of the warrior and rouge specializations had talents that looked magical. I'm not really bothered, Dragon Age is about stylized combat.

 

Aye but they weren't too fanciful (at least most of them weren't). The mighty blow was just a regular attack with no fanciful visual effects for example, it was just an upward sword swing. This changed in Dragon Age 2 where it became the ground erupting move we see in Inquisition as well.

 

 

Most people for whatever strange reason prefer playing lame warriors and rogues over mages, so in order to make people feel not-so-inferior to mages, they need to make up for it with shinies and awesome, hence the exaggerated visuals. Otherwise people will complain. Because lets face it, lame sword swishes are no where near as fun as gratuitous bodysplosions and ground-rending greatsword slams.

 

l2mage

 

 

Sure. Have fun casting fireballs from afar. Nothing beats grinding someone up close with a sword. That requires real skill, technique and strength. You silly mage. 

 

No but seriously, Dragon's Dogma and The Witcher 3 would be good examples of games that make sword-fighting look cool. Neverwinter Nights was pretty awesome as well especially with how everything was animated from different sword swings to dodges and blocking. When you got to an epic level in NWN, your character would perform multiple attacks, dodge often, block like an expert and you even had some awesome abilities like knock-down and whirlwind.

 

Just remember, one templar > five mages.

[NoForgiveness]

I don't actually mind the magic looking stuf. But given that magic is restricted to certain people, I think it would be more interesting if that carried over into gameplay.

[myahele]

Yeah, I was surprised at Seras magical/colorful arrows.

[ReadingRambo220]

Ummm, I'm perfectly fine with Sandal's enchantments, I don't see why you seem so angry since it's just a discussion point. I'm aware the game is too far into development to be changed now. .[/url]

Angry? I wasn't angry what-so-ever, my comment was meant light-hearted. My brother and I often have this same discussion, to which I often mention this is a fantasy world with magic weapons and armor. I see nothing wrong with exaggerated combat, with the explanation that enchantments greatly enhance the skill and strength of the wielder or wearer.

[AkiKishi]

Yeah, I was surprised at Seras magical/colorful arrows.

 

And lack of a quiver to keep them in. Sera is a magic archer.

[The Elder King]

And lack of a quiver to keep them in. Sera is a magic archer.

Quivers weren't present in the DA2 demo, and they were present in DA2. I guess it might be the same for DAI.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Angry? I wasn't angry what-so-ever, my comment was meant light-hearted. My brother and I often have this same discussion, to which I often mention this is a fantasy world with magic weapons and armor. I see nothing wrong with exaggerated combat, with the explanation that enchantments greatly enhance the skill and strength of the wielder or wearer.

 

The argument that it's a fantasy world falls flat on its face as nothing tells us that warriors have such exaggerated abilities and other DA media portrays non-mage people as being only capable of doing what humans can do in the real world. 

 

The visual aesthetic of combat comes down to a gameplay perceptive and not a lore perceptive. I'm certain this would even be shown with how no NPC will ever remark upon the Inquisitor vanishing into thin air as a rogue hence why cut scene combat (an example of which we see in the Qunari gameplay video) looks far different from the gameplay combat.

 

This was the same with DA2 when we had the cut scene of templars storming the mage complex, none of them were leaping into (or from) the sky as they did in actual game-play and their attacks resembled realistic attacks of how you would swing a weapon in real life. They also blocked attacks with their shields and avoided spells by dodging (in contrast to their gameplay versions which leap from the sky and walk through spells). We even see one templar perform what looks like some sort of combo attack (lol) but it's not accompanied by a magical looking visual effect. 

 

The fanciful visual effects are non-existent in the cut scene. So clearly, as far as the Dragon Age universe is concerned, swinging a sword should be the same as it would be here in the real world without any fanciful visual effects to follow. 

 

So my argument here would be that the differences between lore and actual gameplay can ruin immersion. Other game series like Dragon's Dogma, The Witcher and the Souls series maintain the same style of combat in both lore and gameplay.

 

It's all a matter of personal taste and of course I understand if you prefer the exaggerated looking combat abilities along with others. Me and others here don't but as I said, this is just a discussion point, I'm aware Bioware won't change how the game's combat looks right now and it's not a game breaker.

[Maraas]

Glowing weapon trails never bothered me even in Severance (the game I adore to this day). And Dragon Age was always a bit flashy to my tastes—I accept that as a part of its style and focus on other, more important things.

[Gtdef]

I already gave examples of a good alternative (Dragon's Dogma). The approach of Origins was good too but then, Dragon Age has steered far from slower-paced more realistic fighting so we're talking about about a common ground which I thought those first two gifs in my OP were good examples of, they're exaggerated but more down to earth. They say the character might have above-human strength but that he's not using magic.

 

 

Ok, I can be more specific. What Ironbull does is almost an iconic "shockwave" attack. I think it's called tremor on DA2 and it points to supernatural strength and not magic. Perhaps it is because I'm used to the idea of the skill from WoW but to be perfectly honest I prefer it to the DD skill that smashes the cart. 

 

The reason is that it's easier for me to "believe" that someone can hit the ground so hard that it creates ripples than attack a wooden object with a sword and destroy it like that instead of cutting it. I'm not a big fan of the sword slam animations. Now of course this is a fine line and animations exist to make the exaggeration easier to fathom. I wouldn't care much if it was either way and I'm not about to count the exact force required to replicate those effects.

 

If it was up to me I'd prefer everything a bit more down to earth. Warrior would look like something Dark Souls does plus a running animation for charging, rogue something with the mobility of the witcher and mage having to actually do something that resembles casting and not having magical autoattacks at all, instead attacking with the staff like something a mid level DnD wizard does.

 

I think the main problem with DA universe is that magic is so fancy. A single mage has more firepower than a goddamn tank and he can just keep casting and attacking in succession. So in order to make the others relevant, they have to give them supernatural abilities. Otherwise there is no real contest.

 

As for the "teleports", they are not so obvious as those of DA2. I didn't pay much attention because perhaps in game the animations look more consistent and there isn't so much random teleporting.

[ReadingRambo220]

The argument that it's a fantasy world falls flat on its face as nothing tells us that warriors have such exaggerated abilities and other DA media portrays non-mage people as being only capable of doing what humans can do in the real world.

The visual aesthetic of combat comes down to a gameplay perceptive and not a lore perceptive. I'm certain this would even be shown with how no NPC will ever remark upon the Inquisitor vanishing into thin air as a rogue hence why cut scene combat (an example of which we see in the Qunari gameplay video) looks far different from the gameplay combat.

This was the same with DA2 when we had the cut scene of templars storming the mage complex, none of them were leaping into (or from) the sky as they did in actual game-play and their attacks resembled realistic attacks of how you would swing a weapon in real life. They also blocked attacks with their shields and avoided spells by dodging (in contrast to their gameplay versions which leap from the sky and walk through spells). We even see one templar perform what looks like some sort of combo attack (lol) but it's not accompanied by a magical looking visual effect.

The fanciful visual effects are non-existent in the cut scene. So clearly, as far as the Dragon Age universe is concerned, swinging a sword should be the same as it would be here in the real world without any fanciful visual effects to follow.

So my argument here would be that the differences between lore and actual gameplay can ruin immersion. Other game series like Dragon's Dogma, The Witcher and the Souls series maintain the same style of combat in both lore and gameplay.

It's all a matter of personal taste and of course I understand if you prefer the exaggerated looking combat abilities along with others. Me and others here don't but as I said, this is just a discussion point, I'm aware Bioware won't change how the game's combat looks right now and it's not a game breaker.

None of those Templars had sandal enchanted weapons.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Glowing weapon trails never bothered me even in Severance (the game I adore to this day). And Dragon Age was always a bit flashy to my tastes—I accept that as a part of its style and focus on other, more important things.

 
I wasn't referring to the white weapon trails that appear when a weapon is swung (which appears in many games). I was referring to an ability used by the dwarf in one of the gameplay videos (that's now removed from YouTube) where he charged and had trails of blue light suddenly appear around and behind him.
 
@Gtdef

I actually used the third gif as an over-exaggerated ability from Dragon's Dogma. I posted it not because the cart is smashed with it but because it also erupts the ground. Although it does make a tad more sense in that universe because the two-handed weapons are said to weigh more than a real-world zweihander (not to mention that many also have divine origins or are made of metal with such heavy weight that no "normal human" could handle) and the Arisen is also a special person (almost supernatural) who needs dedicated training to eventually use that attack. This is also in a universe where it's possible for the Arisen to square up to a dragon and out power them and where it's noted that the player character is stronger than regular humans. 

 

I'd say an ability like "Downcrack" is the middle ground between exaggerated and realistic.

 

 

The dwarf's magical looking charging attack? Remove the visual effect and you'll get this:

 

 

Above-human speed but no magical visual effects to accompany. It looks awesome whilst stating that it's an ordinary non-magical move (well only achievable by someone trained).

 

So my problem fundamentally is that Inquisition has similar abilities but over-exaggerates them and makes some of them look magical. The Downcrack ability above has a similar effect on enemies to that erupting ground move in Inquisition minus the visual effect.

[Dutchess]

None of those Templars had sandal enchanted weapons.

 

Yeah, they just used to guard a Circle full with enchanters who could do exactly the same and undoubtedly would have to provide enchantments for the Templar Order. 

 

 

On topic: I don't like the look of the combat either. It's still too over-the-top and too hyperactive. Flashes and sparkles and effects everywhere. It just becomes annoying to watch rather than entertaining. It doesn't really look good, imo. Actually playing it could be more fun, but I think the extreme animations will get old quickly. Upon first playing DA2 my initial thought was "wow, so fast! Awesome" but soon enough, after multiple wave fights I was starting to get sick of it. I tried to play DA2 again just now and I'm mostly annoyed after several fights, while I am still entertained in DAO.

[Maraas]

I was referring to an ability used by the dwarf in one of the gameplay videos (that's now removed from YouTube) where he charged and had trails of blue light suddenly appear around and behind him.

Yeah, I get that. (I have a local copy, shame they took it down.) As I said, DA was always a bit flashy for me, be that sustained modes in DAO or activated abilities like that charge in DAI. A warrior could glow like a Christmas tree before and I let that slide. Can't see the difference now.

[Han Yolo]

I totally agree with you. Those bling bling effects already bugged the hell out of me in Origins. All those pink and purple glitter auras undermining my wardens' badassery... ugh.

I understand some people want flashy combat but I would appreciate it being optional, like the blood splatter or the helmets. Just give me a toggle please!

[St. Victorious]

I see a bunch of text walls in this thread where there probably doesn't need to be.

Just remember that Combat = exaggerated

If I wanted realistic I'd get in a bar fight, which includes real world consequences. Otherwise, backflipping 49 feet, shattering the earth, and yelling so hard it kills genlocks is fine by me.

[Eternal Phoenix]

 

Yeah, I get that. (I have a local copy, shame they took it down.) As I said, DA was always a bit flashy for me, be that sustained modes in DAO or activated abilities like that charge in DAI. A warrior could glow like a Christmas tree before and I let that slide. Can't see the difference now.

 

True but many other abilities were more down-to-earth. Inquisition has gone in the opposite direction.

 

I see a bunch of text walls in this thread where there probably doesn't need to be.

Just remember that Combat = exaggerated

If I wanted realistic I'd get in a bar fight, which includes real world consequences. Otherwise, backflipping 49 feet, shattering the earth, and yelling so hard it kills genlocks is fine by me.

 

Well we can also get "realistic" from The Witcher 3 or Dark Souls. There's no need to go bash somebody's face in in real life to get that... 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

Just remember that Combat = exaggerated

If I wanted realistic I'd get in a bar fight, which includes real world consequences. Otherwise, backflipping 49 feet, shattering the earth, and yelling so hard it kills genlocks is fine by me.

lifting a 2h sword is unrealistic, well for me at least. and for some people that is enough because, hey, real combat does look pretty damn awesome...

 

besides I guess the point isn't earth shattering or backflipping just... with all that light show there's nothing dark about that fantasy   

[Statare]

There is the problem in a party based game like DA games versus the mostly single player, with limited party game that is DD. In DD, there is really no point in distinguishing what a party member is doing because you can't really control them and there is a limited combo system. In DA it is imperative to know what is going on, and visuals are a good way to do this.

 

I think they did go a little over the top. I found it hard to distinguish in the gameplay what was an ability, buff, spark from the mages, etc. It was very... confusing. A bit like a late night fireworks display after drinking too much alcohol. All flash.

[Enigmatick]

Maybe we'll be able to mod them out : ^)

[St. Victorious]

Well we can also get "realistic" from The Witcher 3 or Dark Souls. There's no need to go bash somebody's face in in real life to get that... 

I cant reload if I lose in real life. Also, no one dodges in games. Nor do they taunt you for wearing a Phillies shirt despite being outside Philadelphia. Anyway, I still hold that no game is actually realistic. Not Call of Duty, Witcher, Dark Soul, Metal Gear, or anything.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

Maybe we'll be able to mod them out : ^)

oh Maker, one more reason for game/world editor! pretty please!

 

I cant reload if I lose in real life. Also, no one dodges in games. Nor do they taunt you for wearing a Phillies shirt despite being outside Philadelphia. Anyway, I still hold that no game is actually realistic. Not Call of Duty, Witcher, Dark Soul, Metal Gear, or anything.

of course no game is trully realistic. that wouldn't be much fun, would it?

[Eternal Phoenix]

There is the problem in a party based game like DA games versus the mostly single player, with limited party game that is DD. In DD, there is really no point in distinguishing what a party member is doing because you can't really control them and there is a limited combo system. In DA it is imperative to know what is going on, and visuals are a good way to do this.

 

I think they did go a little over the top. I found it hard to distinguish in the gameplay what was an ability, buff, spark from the mages, etc. It was very... confusing. A bit like a late night fireworks display after drinking too much alcohol. All flash.

 

I agree. The heavy colorful visuals (at least in the gameplay I've seen) distract too much. This was a problem in DA2 but not a problem in Origins where everything was clear. Although I disagree on your comment of DD (well at least concerning it on hard mode). Normally single player games with an emphasis on one character have flashier combat (i.e DMC, Ninja Gaiden). I think the animations of DD were just the visual aesthetic Capcom were going for.

 

 

I cant reload if I lose in real life. Also, no one dodges in games. Nor do they taunt you for wearing a Phillies shirt despite being outside Philadelphia. Anyway, I still hold that no game is actually realistic. Not Call of Duty, Witcher, Dark Soul, Metal Gear, or anything.

 

Hence why I used speech marks on the word because I agree. However, you can have games that are close to being more realistic than others.

 

(Also ARMA would be an example of a more realistic war game rather than CoD)

[St. Victorious]

of course no game is trully realistic. that wouldn't be much fun, would it?

That's my point.

[Cy.]

The gameply demo from last pax seemed more realistic than...this one...

[ReadingRambo220]

I agree. The heavy colorful visuals (at least in the gameplay I've seen) distract too much. This was a problem in DA2 but not a problem in Origins where everything was clear.

The sustained abilities present in Origins, particularly for arcane warriors, were very distracting, enough so that there are mods that tone them down considerably.

In contrast, DA2 sustains only activated in combat, such as rock armor, which I personally thought looked pretty cool.