21 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

Just as a note, intentionally trying to derail a thread to get it closed is spam.  It also gives me motivation to ensure you aren't rewarded for those actions, and I will actively attempt to clean the thread (if possible) rather than close it.

 

For everyone, please try to not engage a poster if you feel they are intentionally trying to derail a thread, and use the report system instead.  Thank you.

[Allan Schumacher]

Regarding schadenfreude:

 

I'm not a huge fan of it because I think it escalates.  But I think it's still important to understand it, as well as what causes it.  It's a direct consequence of how people were treated in the past.  That is, if people hadn't been jerks to them in the past, it wouldn't come around full circle.  As such, I consider it more in line with someone responding in a hostile manner to being attack: I tend to be more lenient and look to remove posts rather than outright moderate unless it becomes a recurring problem.

 

So while I encourage people NOT to poke fun under any circumstances due to escalation, I do think that people saying "it's the same thing" are failing to appreciate the context.  From the way I see it, one is "I'm telling you to shut up and deal with it because that's the way the world is" while the other is "I'm telling you to shut up and deal with it because those are the same hurtful things you said to me and I want to illustrate how unpleasant it is to be told that."

 

 

So it's a serious issue due to escalation, but as a guy that literally once held the opinion "Women should be okay with 1 romance because they don't play as much" (2000, Baldur's Gate 2 romance discussion, from a 19 year old that was still dumb yet grossly overestimating his understanding of the world) I can appreciate that there's a non-zero amount of responsibility on my part for cultivating responses like these.

 

 

In any case, lets shift away from this tangent now.

[Allan Schumacher]

Everyone has the right to complain about something, but I guess the difference lies in the fact that one group is typically marginalized and gets the short end of the stick in terms of representation. I admit to being a little surprised when Sera was announced as a same-sex companion, because I can't remember that ever happening with an actual follower in these games (if someone can name another to correct me then please do so). The closest they've ever come in recent memory was Traynor and Cortez, but they were minor players since their content was largely restricted to the home base (of course Cortez benefiting from being the shuttle pilot). While gloating about this sort of thing really does not set the best tone regardless of who's doing it, and I would not really encourage anyone to do it, there's something particularly sourer about a group that typically gets what it wants doing the same thing.

 

Juhani is one, but it was nebulous enough (and I think buggy enough) that people like me were able to deny its existence. (because to me I was dumb and figured that lesbianism was just being used as another form of male titillation - I had serious issues about it because I was often teased for being indifferent towards lesbian sex acts)

[Allan Schumacher]

So there is hope for Sera fans after all? Great!

 

Be careful, because this is squicky as there are literally people that think if they are just the right man, so to speak, they can "turn a lesbian straight."

 

It'd be best to stick with the reality that Sera is a lesbian, and that that probably won't change.

[Allan Schumacher]

Yeah I disagreed with myself right after I pressed "post". That was my mistake and a very poor thing to say. I'm going to keep it up though because it feels kind of cowardly to erase it at this point.

 

You can add an edit if you want to make sure people don't assume you have a stance you don't actually have, though.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm hoping they aren't gonna pull the same bullshit they did with the dwarves in DAO where siding with the giant ass hole is actually better for the dwarves over all. I would rather not hand the reigns of an entire country over to an unredeemable ass hole just because his policy on trade is better...

 

Heh, that scene makes the Orzammar resolution probably my favourite of all the epilogue slides for the crit path quests.

[Allan Schumacher]

Varric will be grittier and darker in DA:I, like Anders or Leliana.

 

Thedas... Thedas never changes.

 

The people that live there though... oooo-wee!

 

[Allan Schumacher]

And look sorrowful, and get played by Sean Bean.

*snip*

 

Way to condemn the guy!

[Allan Schumacher]

Hey. he might survive,

Maybe.

He'll probably be outlived by children, or a brother, at least.

 

Not if played by Sean Bean!!!

[Allan Schumacher]

Time to course correct I think!

[Allan Schumacher]

Probably as quick as we can flirt with them. That is assuming though they give us the option to flirt with people who are unavailable to us for the opportunity for them to turn us down, lol.

 

I've been mulling (philosophically speaking) over whether or not this is a good idea (not reflective of DAI) based upon a lot of the feedback I read regarding the prospects of race gating.

[Allan Schumacher]

I can see advantages to doing it (especially in terms of representation).  But I think some also expect it to be some compelling level of character development or something as a result of the decline (or worse, if it isn't acceptably explained, it's just some level of racism on the part of the character).

[Allan Schumacher]

See: Aveline.

 

I loved Aveline's interactions (Aveline and Varric are also why I find "everyone is available for the PC" arguments to be disingenuous), though she has the "advantage" of not being available for anyone.

[Allan Schumacher]

and I suspect that she's only excluded because of the difficulty that her prior LI status would present

 

It's more "there's not much new to explore there" if I remember correctly.  I think David chimed in on it once but it was some time ago, but the reality is that many people already know Leliana, especially on a romantic level, so there'd be a lot of deja vu because people have already had her become open with the player on a romantic level.

[Allan Schumacher]

Of the three female companions in DA2, Aveline was the only one I liked and I was heartbroken when I realized my Hawke couldn't pursue her as a love interest. If the future of Bioware games is rejection by your favorite companion characters, than my interest in Bioware's future is diminished greatly.

 

There will always be people that are unable to romance their favourite companions, unless we make all companions romanceable (unlikely).

 

 

 

 

You guys are constantly preaching that your games are all about allowing the player to tailor the experience, make the journey their own, have every decision matter; Then you take away options, disregard choices, and water down the flavor. Aveline was a widow, Hawke and her had a history that stretched back years, and though she was interested in another man, nothing had developed yet. There was no reason to make her unavailable to the PC.

 

I don't feel that there's any reason that any character has to be a love interest either.  If you feel that this is us "taking away options" (DAO has has many love interestes as DA2, though DA2 has more choice among those options), then unfortunately I disagree.  In this case, any option we don't give can be construed as an option being taken away.

 

Also, when we say we like to give choice, it doesn't mean "you can do anything that you want in the game and have it work out just the way you want."  With respect to romances, this is reflective that none of our games have allowed you to romance any of the companion characters.  You can influence the journey, but you can't decide to say "I'm out" and leave Ferelden for Orlais and never come back for DAO (short of turning off the game and pretending you do that).

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't mean to sound rude, but I think that's a simplistic view to take.  It's obvious that some choices have to be limited in order to provide a game with a coherent narrative.  The limitation of choice is certainly not as essential when it comes to LIs but there are ways that I think it could truly benefit the game's depth.  That, though, is a matter of opinion and further there is no evidence that it will play out that way.  I'm just being optimistic.  

 

I also think that there should be differences in the romance paths based on the sexes of the two characters.  I don't think that a romance between Isabela and femHawke should be identical to that between her and maleHawke.  Pretty much everyone views the sexes differently in some way and I like seeing those differences.

 

It's also important to note that if we mandate that every piece of content must be maximally fair to everyone involved, it means adding less choices too.

 

For example, if we look to add some content, but feel that only a subset of people will be able to enjoy it, if we mandate that we need to fully equal for every aspect of the game, the only option is to either ensure it's fair and equal, or to cut it.

 

If the ability to make it fair and equal (which might be subjective, depending on the context) isn't there, the only option is to not add the content.

[Allan Schumacher]

Even Sera's sexuality wasn't supposed to be known this early before release. For some reason marketing seems nervous about revealing gay romances ahead of time.

 

I'm actually against revealing them in any capacity.  But I'm not in marketing.

 

It should be noted that for all of our nervousness about revealing gay romances (which I wouldn't deny.  There's trepidation with trying new things), Sera is the only person who's sexuality has been confirmed.

[Allan Schumacher]

You could also say, that by trying to maximize the content of the game and thereby adding more and more choices, you risk that only subsets or only one subset will be able to enjoy the content. Mass Effect 2 and The Old Republic might be two good examples.

 

I realize, this is not the case with Dragon Age: Inquisition, but several players will inevitabely feel dissapointed because certain companions will only be romanceable for a certain gender and/or race. I also realize that Bioware can't satisfy every player, but it is my believe that by sharing content fairly and equaly you would satisfy the most of them.

 

However, I don't think, that there is a perfect solution for this. So in the end, I am just grateful that you decided to offer multiple companions for the LGBT player, especially because not many developers bother to do so.

 

I don't believe it would satisfy most of them.  Especially on a topic like this.  If we were to ensure all bisexuals, it'd reduce the number of characters that have romances.  This means that the opportunity cost is paid by people who would have preferred to romance those characters.  I think that those that prefer a particular solution have a belief that it'll satisfy more people because it gives validation that it's a good idea.  But the reality is that no real science has been done to truly know.

 

There were fights on the DA2 forums because Varric wasn't romanceable.

 

You're right that a game like TOR or ME2 had issues.  BioWare is hardly perfect with regards to this type of content.  A lot of it is simply trying things and seeing how well it works.

[Allan Schumacher]

I feel it adds individuality to the characters. Not every character should tailor to be swoon over after all. We know male and female can hold equally high position, but we don't really know how mannerism in Thedas is or whether the males would treat females the same way as other males.

 

By extension, learning that they aren't treated differently would be a way for us to know, wouldn't it?

[Allan Schumacher]

I have a hard time believing that it's more costly to have one bisexual romance than to make two straight or gay romances. The opposite sex and same sex versions of DA2's romances weren't vastly different from each other.

 

Unfortunately I don't believe there's a valid way to convince you if you've already determined that this is the case.  It's unfortunate that you think I'm lying about it, but c'est la vie.

[Allan Schumacher]

Thread closed due to increasingly antagonistic exchanges.