938 réponses à ce sujet

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Okay, you made me Google that and everything, you should feel bad about yourself, you bad person.  And I still don't know what it means!  

 

EDIT - Stupid Set Sexualities And Race Gating System.  Google, you DO come through!!

I like the gating system.

[Tootles FTW]

I personally don't like playersexuality and I'm glad to see it gone from this game at least.  To me the romances in DA2 don't come off as bisexual so much as it seeming like everyone's attracted to Hawke due to his magical player character status.  

 

That's just me though.  I understand wanting options to be available to everyone, but to me losing some freedom is worth it in the hopes of tighter characterization.

 

I think DA2 handled it pretty well, for what its worth.  The only ones who openly hit on my Hawke without prompting were Anders (1 male) and Isabela (1 female).  Merrill & Fenris are oblivious to romance unless you make an overture, so I really never understood the "everyone's attracted to Hawke" argument unless you made it a point to flirt with each option.

 

I'm interested in the strictly homosexual options in DA:I simply because we have yet to really experience one in a Bioware game before, so I'm curious if they'll make a point to address any DA-related LGBT issues.  Beyond that, it just adds more internet-fuel to an already burning romance fire - which is entertaining &/or frustrating dependent upon your viewpoint.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Okay, you made me Google that and everything, you should feel bad about yourself, you bad person.  And I still don't know what it means!  

 

EDIT - Stupid Set Sexualities And Race Gating System.  Google, you DO come through!!

Google actually has that as a recognized acronym? 

 

It's the system that Bioware is using: set sexualities(heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual) and race gating(LIs available to only certain races), which I think is stupid.

[Phoe77]

In this one case, I'm looking at things from outside the universe.  I know that every LI in DA2 will romance Hawke regardless of his or her sex, but Fenris and Merrill never show any evidence of sexual interest in the same sex except for Hawke.  That obviously doesn't mean that they can't be bisexual because there are any number of reasons they may not gab about their sexual fantasies; it's just how it comes across to me in that situation.  Anders and Isabela are handled better though, I think, because of the information we get about their sexual histories.  

 

As for any internet rage and sorrow, I try not to consider that when I think about these things.  People are going to react "passionately" over whatever choices are made.  I don't want people to be locked out of a romance they really want to pursue, but I like to think that having that be the case may benefit the characterization or the nature of the romance.  

[chrislynn]

But how can you say that when you don't even know how it is going to play out in the game? I understand that you don't like it but to call it stupid without even seeing what system they have in place seems a little premature. 

 

I suspect they did it this way to give us deeper characters (yay!), deeper relationships (yay!) and overall more choices than we would have (yay!). I think it has the potential to add replayablity. It also means that I may not get catered to for my personal head canon play through (if I actually have one in mind, but I don't) so I can see the fear of what we don't know. I just don't think the sky is falling here. Or at least until I get to play the game for myself and then its yay game!

[Deviija]

It goes both ways.  The assumption is it will be "tighter" characterization and focused, more specific plots (whatever that means), and/or "deeper characters," but there is no evidence yet it will be any more involved, or afford any kind of better characterization than BW romances in the past.  For example, change the pronouns in Garrus' romance and his romance would still play out the same and have the same impact and characterization that he did with FemShep.  There's nothing specific to his characterization or plots that rely on gender.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But how can you say that when you don't even know how it is going to play out in the game? I understand that you don't like it but to call it stupid without even seeing what system they have in place seems a little premature. 

 

I suspect they did it this way to give us deeper characters (yay!), deeper relationships (yay!) and overall more choices than we would have (yay!). I think it has the potential to add replayablity. It also means that I may not get catered to for my personal head canon play through (if I actually have one in mind, but I don't) so I can see the fear of what we don't know. I just don't think the sky is falling here. Or at least until I get to play the game for myself and then its yay game!

Because anything in RPGs, a genre that is built on choices, that limits choices is stupid in my opinion. It's like having less enemies to shoot in a FPS. Now when the game comes out my mind may change, but until then I see nothing capable of changing my opinion. 

 

And no, the race gating was done at least partly to save resources on animations. The set sexuality is because of reasons I don't know but I fail to see how it will be deeper with it than without.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

It goes both ways.  The assumption is it will be "tighter" characterization and focused, more specific plots (whatever that means), and/or "deeper characters," but there is no evidence yet it will be any more involved, or afford any kind of better characterization than BW romances in the past.  For example, change the pronouns in Garrus' romance and his romance would still play out the same and have the same impact and characterization that he did with FemShep.  There's nothing specific to his characterization or plots that rely on gender.

He only ever hits on female characters, even non Shepard characters. That seems pretty straight forward.

[Samahl]

unless you made it a point to flirt with each option.

/me
It was really upsetting to have to turn Merrill down, but she took it pretty well.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Because anything in RPGs, a series that is built on choices, that limits choices is stupid in my opinion. It's like having less enemies to shoot in a FPS. Now when the game comes out my mind may change, but until then I see nothing capable of changing my opinion. 

 

And no, the race gating was done at least partly to save resources on animations. The set sexuality is because of reasons I don't know but I fail to see how it will be deeper with it than without.

If every race, class, and gender play the exact same, those choices become meaningless.

 

[Deviija]

He only ever hits on female characters, even non Shepard characters. That seems pretty straight forward.

 

Though that has little to do with what I said.  

[Samahl]

If every race, class, and gender play the exact same, those choices become meaningless.

Especially if your rise to power won't be hampered in the slightest by your race. I mean, the Inquisitor has the glowy hand thing, but everyone hates qunari and elves.

[Phoe77]

Because anything in RPGs, a series that is built on choices, that limits choices is stupid in my opinion. It's like having less enemies to shoot in a FPS. Now when the game comes out my mind may change, but until then I see nothing capable of changing my opinion. 

 

I don't mean to sound rude, but I think that's a simplistic view to take.  It's obvious that some choices have to be limited in order to provide a game with a coherent narrative.  The limitation of choice is certainly not as essential when it comes to LIs but there are ways that I think it could truly benefit the game's depth.  That, though, is a matter of opinion and further there is no evidence that it will play out that way.  I'm just being optimistic.  

 

I also think that there should be differences in the romance paths based on the sexes of the two characters.  I don't think that a romance between Isabela and femHawke should be identical to that between her and maleHawke.  Pretty much everyone views the sexes differently in some way and I like seeing those differences.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Though that has little to do with what I said.  

Actually, it has alot to do with what you said. He's straight. He likes female turians, quarians, and humans. Just because you can change every use of "she" and "her" to "he" and "him" doesn't belittle that. Granted, having a more involved rejection would contribute more, I don't think that makes him being straight any "worse."

[Samahl]

I also think that there should be differences in the romance paths based on the sexes of the two characters.  I don't think that a romance between Isabela and femHawke should be identical to that between her and maleHawke.  Pretty much everyone views the sexes differently in some way and I like seeing those differences.

There's where I disagree. Dragon Age had this weird thing where gender mattered in Origins (see: belligerent female Warden with her extra "don't look down on me because I'm female!" lines), then stopped mattering in 2. I think they should stick with 2's example, and not really have much of a difference between the genders, even societal perceptions-wise.

[Samahl]

I don't think that makes him being straight any "worse."

What if everyone was LGBQ+ though? (｡･ω･｡)

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

What if everyone was LGBQ+ though? (｡･ω･｡)

As a bisexual, I don't think other should have to live the same lifestyle as me; I also apply to same logic to my player character. I don't know that there's any person so attractive that everyone of any race, gender, background, or sexuality wants to bang them.

[Ailith Tycane]

I fully expect people to comment on my elf Inquisitor being an elf, and I fully expect to be called rabbit and knife ears. I don't think it's so terrible for my characters orientation to be brought up too.

[Phoe77]

There's where I disagree. Dragon Age had this weird thing where gender mattered in Origins (see: belligerent female Warden with her extra "don't look down on me because I'm female!" lines), then stopped mattering in 2. I think they should stick with 2's example, and not really have much of a difference between the genders, even societal perceptions-wise.

 

That would likely explain our difference in opinion then.  That kind of thing is one of the areas in which I will always be a proponent of more choices.  Having our character be able to express a multitude of different personalities is one of my favorite things about rpgs like Dragon Age. 

 

I also like to see variability in the romance paths.  One of my favorite things that they did with DA2's romances was including differences based on friendship and rivalry.  The romances absolutely should play out differently if the tone of your overall relationship with that character is different.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If every race, class, and gender play the exact same, those choices become meaningless.

 

I don't mean to sound rude, but I think that's a simplistic view to take.  It's obvious that some choices have to be limited in order to provide a game with a coherent narrative.  The limitation of choice is certainly not as essential when it comes to LIs but there are ways that I think it could truly benefit the game's depth.  That, though, is a matter of opinion and further there is no evidence that it will play out that way.  I'm just being optimistic.  

 

I also think that there should be differences in the romance paths based on the sexes of the two characters.  I don't think that a romance between Isabela and femHawke should be identical to that between her and maleHawke.  Pretty much everyone views the sexes differently in some way and I like seeing those differences.

 

Except in Thedas, sexuality is pretty much meaningless. With the exception of a few cultures, who have good reasons to have opinions on it, nobody in Thedas really cares what gender your lover is. 

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I fully expect people to comment on my elf Inquisitor being an elf, and I fully expect to be called rabbit and knife ears. I don't think it's so terrible for my characters orientation to be brought up too.

Especially if you're attempting to get political power in a region- elves don't hold positions of power, and even amongst humans, leaders need to be able to produce an heir in order for their line to stay viable. It's a double whammy if neither is true.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As much as I like my Dalish Warden, this still looks like the best environment to be an elf in. Orlais and the Dales has much more potential drama than Ferelden.

City Elf would have been better. 

[Phoe77]

Just to clarify, I don't care if the fact that my gay Inquisitor's homosexuality is never mentioned at all.  Same with heterosexuality.  What I'm talking about is more subtle than that. I think that it makes sense that a same sex romance between a homosexual man and a bisexual man would be different in ways than one between two homosexual men.  It is my hope that by restricting romances based on the sexes of the characters involved, those differences can be illustrated.  

[Samahl]

That would likely explain our difference in opinion then.  That kind of thing is one of the areas in which I will always be a proponent of more choices.  Having our character be able to express a multitude of different personalities is one of my favorite things about rpgs like Dragon Age. 

 

I also like to see variability in the romance paths.  One of my favorite things that they did with DA2's romances was including differences based on friendship and rivalry.  The romances absolutely should play out differently if the tone of your overall relationship with that character is different.

I'm not saying every romance should be carbon copies of each other, but it's fun to get away from sexism and misogyny. Women deal with it enough as it is - escapist fantasy series shouldn't be reminding you that you're treated as lesser in real life.