938 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

City Elf would have been better.

Annoying rabbits who think way too much of themselves

[Samahl]

As a bisexual, I don't think other should have to live the same lifestyle as me; I also apply to same logic to my player character. I don't know that there's any person so attractive that everyone of any race, gender, background, or sexuality wants to bang them.

I'm not saying everyone should be queer, but it'd be nice to be surrounded by your people for once, y'know? Of course, we kind of had that in DA2, which is one of the things I loved about it.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I'm not saying every romance should be carbon copies of each other, but it's fun to get away from sexism and misogyny. Women deal with it enough as it is - escapist fantasy series shouldn't be reminding you that you're treated as lesser in real life.

Some might take the view that not addressing it at all in situations might be pretending it doesn't exist in our world, either. It's complex, either way.

[Samahl]

Some might take the view that not addressing it at all in situations might be pretending it doesn't exist in our world, either. It's complex, either way.

True, but not every piece of fiction has to address systemic inequality. In this case, I think it'd be better if BioWare leaned more towards female empowerment.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I'm not saying everyone should be queer, but it'd be nice to be surrounded by your people for once, y'know? Of course, we kind of had that in DA2, which is one of the things I loved about it.

It was alright, but that seemed to be natural extensions of the characters- but if we make everyone bisexual, we remove a large part of a balanced experience. I like the concept of 2 bi 2 gay 2 straight; and in that situation, we still have a technical advantage. If the only point of the game was romance, my opinions might be different, but I like to immerse myself, and feeling like I'm surrounded by people who just want to tap me or be tapped by me is frustrating, and makes me see the dialogue wires too much.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

True, but not every piece of fiction has to address systemic inequality. In this case, I think it'd be better if BioWare leaned more towards female empowerment.

We have Celene, the Divine, possibly Anora, Meredith, all the collective Revered Mothers. . . There are a good deal of really powerful women.

[Ailith Tycane]

the DA universe hasn't ever stuck me as especially sexist, but maybe I just cant think of any examples at the moment. It definitely is anti elf though. 

[Deviija]

Actually, it has alot to do with what you said. He's straight. He likes female turians, quarians, and humans. Just because you can change every use of "she" and "her" to "he" and "him" doesn't belittle that. Granted, having a more involved rejection would contribute more, I don't think that makes him being straight any "worse."

 

That also has nothing to do with what I said, or the context of it.  The response I made is to people saying that set sexualities will afford "deeper characters," more "focused romances," and sundry.  I said there is no guarantee that it does any of this, and the characterization and romance arcs could very well end up being the same scope and as deep as LI characters in past BW games.  My use of Garrus as an example was to illustrate his depth and characterization would not change, even if he was a bi romance.  His set sexuality doesn't make him any 'deeper' or his story more focused.  

 

This has nothing to do with saying being straight makes him "worse."  

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

That also has nothing to do with what I said, or the context of it.  The response I made is to people saying that set sexualities will afford "deeper characters," more "focused romances," and sundry.  I said there is no guarantee that it does any of this, and the characterization and romance arcs could very well end up being the same scope and as deep as LI characters in past BW games.  My use of Garrus as an example was to illustrate his depth and characterization would not change, even if he was a bi romance.  His set sexuality doesn't make him any 'deeper' or his story more focused.  

 

This has nothing to do with saying being straight makes him "worse."  

Having a character with well defined characteristics on its own doesn't provide depth? Do you play RPGs primarily for gameplay, story, or character?

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

That also has nothing to do with what I said, or the context of it.  The response I made is to people saying that set sexualities will afford "deeper characters," more "focused romances," and sundry.  I said there is no guarantee that it does any of this, and the characterization and romance arcs could very well end up being the same scope and as deep as LI characters in past BW games.  My use of Garrus as an example was to illustrate his depth and characterization would not change, even if he was a bi romance.  His set sexuality doesn't make him any 'deeper' or his story more focused.  

 

This has nothing to do with saying being straight makes him "worse."  

Also, were Garrus a bisexual romance, he might romance a female differently; merely flopping the pronouns doesn't change that. However, the fact that it is restricted helps define the character, too.

[Samahl]

the DA universe hasn't ever stuck me as especially sexist, but maybe I just cant think of any examples at the moment. It definitely is anti elf though. 

The first game had plenty of evidence sexism was a thing. One of my favorite lines from Morrigan was "Men are always willing to believe two things about a woman: one, that she is weak, and two, that she finds him attractive." And let's not forget about the double standards with the armor (boobplate and bare midriffs... ugh).

Dragon Age 2 much improved upon the lot of women, and women like Aveline and Meredith were taken seriously, which suggests somehow something changed between the first and second game.

[Phoe77]

Note that I never said that set sexualities would definitely lead to tighter characterization.  I just brought up the possibility.  I'm being optimistic and speculating on a feature that I'd like to see.

 

Point of fact, I think that it's impossible to say whether or not Garrus's characterization would be more or less deep if he were bisexual because we don't have any indication of how that would be handled.  

[Samahl]

Note that I never said that set sexualities would definitely lead to tighter characterization.  I just brought up the possibility.  I'm being optimistic and speculating on a feature that I'd like to see.

 

Point of fact, I think that it's impossible to say whether or not Garrus's characterization would be more or less deep if he were bisexual because we don't have any indication of how that would be handled.  

I think Anders' bisexuality was actually pretty interesting, seeing as he'd only mention Karl if you were a male Hawke vs. female Hawke. It's telling that he only felt secure enough to open up about his sexuality to another queer man.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

The first game had plenty of evidence sexism was a thing. One of my favorite lines from Morrigan was "Men are always willing to believe two things about a woman: one, that she is weak, and two, that she finds him attractive." And let's not forget about the double standards with the armor (boobplate and bare midriffs... ugh).

Dragon Age 2 much improved upon the lot of women, and women like Aveline and Meredith were taken seriously, which suggests somehow something changed between the first and second game.

That could be merely a regional difference, though.

[Samahl]

That could be merely a regional difference, though.

Marcher women are treated better than Fereldan women? Perhaps. Keep in mind that Aveline was Fereldan too, though.

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't mean to sound rude, but I think that's a simplistic view to take.  It's obvious that some choices have to be limited in order to provide a game with a coherent narrative.  The limitation of choice is certainly not as essential when it comes to LIs but there are ways that I think it could truly benefit the game's depth.  That, though, is a matter of opinion and further there is no evidence that it will play out that way.  I'm just being optimistic.  

 

I also think that there should be differences in the romance paths based on the sexes of the two characters.  I don't think that a romance between Isabela and femHawke should be identical to that between her and maleHawke.  Pretty much everyone views the sexes differently in some way and I like seeing those differences.

 

It's also important to note that if we mandate that every piece of content must be maximally fair to everyone involved, it means adding less choices too.

 

For example, if we look to add some content, but feel that only a subset of people will be able to enjoy it, if we mandate that we need to fully equal for every aspect of the game, the only option is to either ensure it's fair and equal, or to cut it.

 

If the ability to make it fair and equal (which might be subjective, depending on the context) isn't there, the only option is to not add the content.

[Meatbaggins]

Also, were Garrus a bisexual romance, he might romance a female differently; merely flopping the pronouns doesn't change that. However, the fact that it is restricted helps define the character, too.

 

 

What makes you think he would treat a man differently than a woman? How does his heterosexuality define him as a character beyond who he likes to bang?

[Battlebloodmage]

Everytimes I see people put Solas as the gay option, it depresses me. I doubt they would have 2 gay elves though, it may have some unfortunate implication.

[Battlebloodmage]

What makes you think he would treat a man differently than a woman? How does his heterosexuality define him as a character beyond who he likes to bang?

Have you watch his dance with female Shep? Someone change it to maleShep and it was kinda awkward. I said that as someone who romance Kaidan with a maleShep. Garrus' position was very dominant in relation to femShep while with another alpha male like Shepard, it just doesn't seem to have the same chemistry in that way. Seeing as Fenris was written with maleHawke in mind, the relationship between the two have never been about dominant but more equal, even with femHawke, at least, that's how it comes across to me. The relationship dynamics may change slightly depending on who the person being romanced is. A bi person may open the car door to a female but may not do the same for the male he's dating. 

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

What makes you think he would treat a man differently than a woman? How does his heterosexuality define him as a character beyond who he likes to bang?

As a bisexual man who has been in relationships with both sexes, I've noticed my role in the relationship might be a little different if I'm dating a male versus a female. Every relationship is different, and a person isn't always the same in each relationship.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Marcher women are treated better than Fereldan women? Perhaps. Keep in mind that Aveline was Fereldan too, though.

True. I don't know; women seemed to cap out in influence as "Lieutenant/ right hand to a male character" in Origins. I just mean that maybe you can go higher in Kirkwall. *shrug* Considering the true leaders seemed to be Meredith, the Revered Mother, and Orsino seemed to be the real Kirkwall powers, anyway.

[Samahl]

Have you watch his dance with female Shep? Someone change it to maleShep and it was kinda awkward. I said that as someone who romance Kaidan with a maleShep. Garrus' position was very dominant in relation to femShep while with another alpha male like Shepard, it just doesn't seem to have the same chemistry in that way. Seeing as Fenris was written with maleHawke in mind, the relationship between the two have never been about dominant but more equal, even with femHawke, at least, that's how it comes across to me. The relationship dynamics may change slightly depending on who the person being romanced is. A bi person may open the car door to a female but may not do the same for the male he's dating. 

A lot of your premise relies on double standards and strict gender roles. I'd rather not have them reinforced in my games, thank you very much.

(Also, Fenris was written for male Hawke?)

[Samahl]

Every relationship is different, and a person isn't always the same in each relationship.

This. I think it's more important that relationships are affected by how the player treats and interacts with their LI rather than inconsequential (for this universe) things like gender.

[Spirit Keeper]

My theory is this.

 

Cassandra - Bi

 

Cullen - Straight

 

Dorian - Gay

 

Solas- Bi

 

Sera - Gay

 

Blackwall - Straight

 

Scribe girl - Bi

 

Iron Bull - Bi (probably Qunari exclusive)
 

[Battlebloodmage]

A lot of your premise relies on double standards and strict gender roles. I'd rather not have them reinforced in my games, thank you very much.

(Also, Fenris was written for male Hawke?)

Yes, it was in one of David Gaider's blog, I believe, it got buried long ago though. I guess different stroke for different folks, unless you date both a guy and a girl before, I don't think you can speak from experience. I have, and there are subtle differences in how the relationship dynamics are.