938 réponses à ce sujet

[Samahl]

O_____O

I suggest we ignore the biphobe.

[Battlebloodmage]

I have never been on a date, but if me and a friend went out somewhere I would offer to pay regardless of the friend's gender. 

Yes, I would as well, but friends are different than a date. A girl wouldn't be called cheap for not paying but a guy would in the same regard. It's the Western culture in general. In a date between the same gender, they either split equal or the person invite pay. That in itself is a different dynamics already.

[Ailith Tycane]

I always paid for my own meals, too, regardless of whether I was on a date with a dude or a lady.  

 

Most people in most places in the world go Dutch. This idea of men paying for everything as well as the rest of our weird dating rituals are weirdly American. 

[Phoe77]

Gender roles are, in fact, damaging. Gender roles are what kept women out of the workforce and the military. Gender roles are what are holding back young women today from being programmers and scientists. Gender roles are what keep men from expressing themselves emotionally. They're what make men think they're entitled to women's bodies. They're why men and women are punished for stepping out of them.

If you don't think those are inherently harmful, then I don't know what else to say.

 

There is the fact that you don't have to adhere to gender roles in every aspect of your life.  Someone could easily have a domestic side at home while still being career driven.  Someone could have a stoic attitude in public and yet be willing to share their emotions to close loved ones or trusted friends.

 

The problem is when gender roles are rigidly enforced and people are pigeonholed into adhering to them at all times, regardless of inclination. After all, there's nothing wrong with a woman preferring to be a homemaker instead of a scientist.  

 

Have gender roles been damaging?  Absolutely.  Is that an essential and inescapable aspect of their nature?  Not necessarily.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes, I would as well, but friends are different than a date. A girl wouldn't be called cheap for not paying but a guy would in the same regard. It's the Western culture in general. In a date between the same gender, they either split equal or the person invite pay. That in itself is a different dynamics already.

I don't like that. Thus I don't want that in DAI. 

[Samahl]

Yes, I would as well, but friends are different than a date. A girl wouldn't be called cheap for not paying but a guy would in the same regard. It's the Western culture in general. In a date between the same gender, they either split equal or the person invite pay. That in itself is a different dynamics already.

They shouldn't be though. Why should someone be shamed for frivolous things like that? What if the guy is poor?

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I have never been on a date, but if me and a friend went out somewhere I would offer to pay regardless of the friend's gender. 

That's kinda non-applicable.

 

 

Some gender roles are nice. Not everything is purely cultural. People are people but men and women have biological differences. Just look at animals man. That's another thing that's kinda nice about defined romances. The writer can just go about writing it naturally. If they were to try and "incorporate" gender roles into a bisexual romance, it would come off kinda contrived and became an easy target for feminists.

[Samahl]

There is the fact that you don't have to adhere to gender roles in every aspect of your life.  Someone could easily have a domestic side at home while still being career driven.  Someone could have a stoic attitude in public and yet be willing to share their emotions to close loved ones or trusted friends.

 

The problem is when gender roles are rigidly enforced and people are pigeonholed into adhering to them at all times, regardless of inclination. After all, there's nothing wrong with a woman preferring to be a homemaker instead of a scientist.  

 

Have gender roles been damaging?  Absolutely.  Is that an essential and inescapable aspect of their nature?  Not necessarily.

If you don't think we should adhere to them, why bother having them in the first place? Why not let everyone be what they want to be?

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I pay for my own meal regardless of whether I'm going on a date with a man or a woman. 

I usually swap off. My general rule is whoever asks for the date, pays for the date, unless there's a relationship, then you share, unless one partner makes more/ there's a pre-existing set-up for the couple. (One pays for bills, the other pays for entertainment.)

[Phoe77]

If you don't think we should adhere to them, why bother having them in the first place? Why not let everyone be what they want to be?

 

Maybe the way that they want to be is largely in line with already established gender roles.  

 

Edit:  I have no opinion on whether we should or should not follow gender roles because that's too simple an answer.  There are some times when adhering to a gender role may be more beneficial.  There are instances in which adhering to a gender role may not be detrimental or beneficial, but may make the person in question more comfortable without demeaning anyone else.  Should they then not follow that role simply because it's based on gender ideals?

[Samahl]

men and women have biological differences.

False.

[Samahl]

Maybe the way that they want to be is largely in line with already established gender roles.  

Do you think that's a coincidence? Do you think we live in a vacuum? Even then, how are gender roles functional in any way?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

False.

Well, actually that is true. We have different reproductive organs for example. 

[Ailith Tycane]

False.

 

It's not false, they just don't matter.

[Samahl]

Well, actually that is true. We have different reproductive organs for example. 

There are men with vaginae and women with penises.

[Hellion Rex]

False.

Ummmm, yeah, we kinda do. Sexual organs being one such biological difference.

[Ryzaki]

Well, actually that is true. We have different reproductive organs for example. 

 

Yep.

 

However that does not mean in the slightest that one gender is inferior to another or needs to be treated like children. A woman can (and a lot do!) hold open doors for men why? Cause its freaking polite. Some things are just nice to do for someone period.

[Deviija]

Most people in most places in the world go Dutch. This idea of men paying for everything as well as the rest of our weird dating rituals are weirdly American. 

 

Mmnhm.  The other stupid dating ritual/expectation I liked bypassing by paying my own way is the whole "well, I paid for dinner/the evening, now you are obligated/pressured to put out."  Nnnnope.  

[Who Knows]

Well, actually that is true. We have different reproductive organs for example. 

Gender identity is separate from biological sex (which is itself not limited to simple dichotomous male or female)

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I suggest we ignore the biphobe.

Since I'm out of likes, I /like this.

[pallascedar]

Sexually ambiguous LIs > all other options. 

 

I feel like this is your most common post >_>... And I mean, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but sexual ambiguity is definitely my least favorite option. I don't have a problem with an all bisexual cast (though I do prefer a cast with a wider variety of sexualities, largely because I'd rather have more LIs, and variety is the spice of life), but I think there are just cases where it was done poorly in DA2 (particularly with Anders).

 

I just thought it was ridiculous that Anders brought up his past partner to a male Hawke and not a female Hawke. Another poster (who I'm far too lazy to find) explained it far more eloquently than I, so I'll just mimic her. It's a little bit insulting to straight women that Anders didn't think that they were capable of "handling" his sexuality. I hope I would feel the same way in a romance with a male bisexual character.

 

I'm not insisting that all characters have to outright state their sexualities, it makes sense that Fenris is sexual ambiguous because Fenris has no reason to talk to a non-romanced Hawke about his sex life and he doesn't talk to a romanced Hawke about his past partners and he wouldn't. It's not in his character. Same roughly goes for Merrill. So the only character who is unambiguosly bisexual is Isabela, who is more or less a walking stereotype about bisexual women. Not that I think Isabela is a problem in the context of the game: I loved Isabela and she's easily one of my favorite DA2 characters. And when you look at her in the context of 4 bisexual characters all of whom aren't promiscuous then the place she falls in the stereotype isn't as much of a problem.

 

It just frustrates me that the only way we're allowed to realistically portray bisexuals is as characters like Isabela and Zevran. I wish that the game hadn't been so ambiguous about sexuality when it came to Anders. I recognize that some women might have not liked being able to headcanon him as straight. But, frankly, I think that's a form of bigotry: and I'm less inclined to care about what bigoted people like.

[Ailith Tycane]

Mmnhm.  The other stupid dating ritual/expectation I liked bypassing by paying my own way is the whole "well, I paid for dinner/the evening, now you are obligated/pressured to put out."  Nnnnope.  

 

Yeeeah, this is the main reason why I dislike having other people pay for me on dates, especially if I don't know them well yet. I don't like people making me feel like I owe them something. 

[Phoe77]

Do you think that's a coincidence? Do you think we live in a vacuum? Even then, how are gender roles functional in any way?

 

Maybe its based off of societal norms.  Maybe it's based off of personal inclination.  The etiology doesn't matter if it's in line with their personal inclinations and isn't harmful to anyone.

[Hellion Rex]

I feel like we are perhaps moving a tad afield from the original topic...

[Ryzaki]

Mmnhm.  The other stupid dating ritual/expectation I liked bypassing by paying my own way is the whole "well, I paid for dinner/the evening, now you are obligated/pressured to put out."  Nnnnope.  

 

Yeah that's =/