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#751
berelinde

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One of the things that's come up a lot in the game thread, in the Combat Clinic, and even in my tabletop group is how wildly over-powered Knock Prone is. It's not that it's a bad stunt. It's one of the ones that makes the most sense, in fact, since it works equally well for ranged and melee attacks and it represents something that is entirely likely to happen in a fight. It just happens too often and with too devastating an effect. In short, it packs a heck of a wallop for two stunt points.

 

In my tabletop group, we use real dice and therefore, I don't roll for enemies individually the way I do for this campaign. Knock Prone was responsible for two laughably easy encounters and one full party wipe (I allowed a passing good Samaritan to patch up the mage in time to prevent all but one permanent death, meaning that one player had to roll a new character because too much time had elapsed.)

 

The entire point of house rules is to bring the game into better balance. With that in mind, there are a few ways we could change Knock Prone to bring it in line.

 

  1. Up the stunt point cost to 5 Stunt Points.
  2. Make recovery a Minor Action. Characters who have not yet used both their Major and Minor Actions that round may get up as a Minor Action. Ranged characters would not be able to attack that round, since firing a launcher (magical or mundane) requires both actions. Melee characters would only be able to attack a combatant who was immediately adjacent to them, and they would not be able to change weapons or do anything else besides attack.
  3. Allow an Opposition Roll, like Stonefist or Disarm. I'm thinking it would probably be a Strength(Might) test, since it's harder to knock strong people over, and the Target Number would be the attacker's roll.
  4. Leave it alone and accept that it can be used against the party, too.

Thoughts?



#752
Mahumia

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I agree that knocking prone is a bit too overpowered at the moment. 

 

As already discussed in the combat clinic, I think that an ability test, like it is for disarm, would make the most sense. Knocking someone over isn't just a matter of strenght, but also balance, dexterity, etcetera. A friend of mine who works into the security branch was once complaining that it was hard to tackle women, as most would be good at avoiding the tackle (I think that that ability has skipped me though)... Making it a roll-off versus either strength or dex perhaps? So option 3 for me :) 

 

Otherwise I'm perfectly fine with option 1 too.

 

Option 2 would leave no room for the difference between just knocking someone over and really pinning someone down. I think it is fair to lose one round though. 



#753
berelinde

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I'd argue that dexterity is already being applied once. The character's defense entirely relies on dexterity, so if the blow landed, the attacker has already beaten that test. Stunt points are only generated during a successful attack, so a character with a high dexterity stands a better chance of never being hit at all. After that, it's all about having the physical fortitutde to keep your legs when someone is trying to physically overpower you.

 

In the example of your friend the security officer, the woman's dexterity gave her a higher defense score, so he was unable to complete a successful attack. If he *was* able to get a grip on her, his higher physical strength would enable him to get her to the ground. If she wiggled out of it, he never had a grip on her to begin with. Going to the other extreme, if your friend tried to tackle a linebacker, he might very well get him in a full body lock, but he might simply not be strong enough to get him to the ground. The linebacker's sheer mass makes him immobile. So yeah, the blow landed, but he isn't going down. The woman dodged, preventing any damage at all, and she isn't grappled. The linebacker took the damage, but his physical strength makes overpowering him more difficult.

 

Edit: Keep in mind that this needs to work for ranged combat, too. A character with a high dexterity can evade an arrow, but that's Dodge, another skill entirely, and it's already covered by the rules. Once the arrow/bolt/arcane lance completes a successful hit, only the target's inertia (a function of strength and mass) will keep the character upright. 

 

No gaming system will ever be perfect. The best we can hope for is an approximation. Disarm allows either strength or dexterity, but Dodge is entirely dexterity based, and the Opposition Roll for Stonefist, a spell with serious knockdown potential, relies on constitution, not strength or dexterity.


Modifié par berelinde, 06 août 2014 - 12:04 .


#754
Mahumia

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Fair enough :) I forgot about the attacks-need-to-hit-part... The brain is a bit dizzy from staring at excel for the whole day 



#755
BFace

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I like the idea of allowing an opposition roll, for the reasons already stated. I think Knock Prone is a great stunt, but it's hard to be a bad@ss when you're layin' on the ground. :)

 

So, I like the idea of being able to try to counter it. :)



#756
mysteriouspast

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I'm fine with either a contested roll or making it more expensive. I agree it can get out of hand when we have multiple enemies all knocking everyone down. Whatever works for everyone is fine with me!



#757
Mahumia

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*bounce bounce* Only a week till gamescom! *gasp* *last minute costume stress*!

 

At least the armor itself is as good as finished... I plan to pick it up later this week. Me and a friend are going to work on the robe in the weekend in order to get it done in time... and now just waiting for a call or mail from the guy who made me my shield... I plan to get some pics of me in the full costume, so I can share them if you want :)

 

Spoiler



#758
mysteriouspast

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*bounce bounce* Only a week till gamescom! *gasp* *last minute costume stress*!
 
At least the armor itself is as good as finished... I plan to pick it up later this week. Me and a friend are going to work on the robe in the weekend in order to get it done in time... and now just waiting for a call or mail from the guy who made me my shield... I plan to get some pics of me in the full costume, so I can share them if you want :)
 

Spoiler


Um, YES! Is this a rhetorical question? :-)

#759
Mahumia

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Um, YES! Is this a rhetorical question? :-)

Well, I feel a bit like bragging... But of course you can skip the spoiler tags if you wouldn't care :P



#760
berelinde

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What did you use to make the metal pieces? They look rather substantial.



#761
Mahumia

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What did you use to make the metal pieces? They look rather substantial.

*cough* I didn't do much, to be honest... it's made of steel, and I asked a blacksmith to make it for me. One who usually makes knight armor for jousting and such and happens to be a DA fan himself



#762
berelinde

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Hey! It pays to have talented friends! Tell your friend I admire his work. Seriously, people have tried all kinds of alternatives for the metal parts, but nothing looks quite as good as the real thing. :)

 

It looks great already, but once you add the cloth parts, you'll be the best-dressed cosplayer there.



#763
BFace

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*bounce bounce* Only a week till gamescom! *gasp* *last minute costume stress*!

 

At least the armor itself is as good as finished... I plan to pick it up later this week. Me and a friend are going to work on the robe in the weekend in order to get it done in time... and now just waiting for a call or mail from the guy who made me my shield... I plan to get some pics of me in the full costume, so I can share them if you want :)

 

Spoiler

Holy crap that's amazing! You'll show us LOTS of pics of the whole thing, right? :D That's so awesome.



#764
Lorien19

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*bounce bounce* Only a week till gamescom! *gasp* *last minute costume stress*!

 

At least the armor itself is as good as finished... I plan to pick it up later this week. Me and a friend are going to work on the robe in the weekend in order to get it done in time... and now just waiting for a call or mail from the guy who made me my shield... I plan to get some pics of me in the full costume, so I can share them if you want :)

 

Spoiler

Amazing work Mahumia!WOW!



#765
berelinde

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Unless somebody says otherwise, tomorrow's game post will be a recap and a call for a decision.

 

We'll cover:

  • current character positions
  • xp
  • health & mana status
  • exploration findings
  • pending decisions

 

The last part is the important part. We're all heartily sick of the farm. Let's go somewhere else.



#766
TreeHuggerHannah

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I'm back! Now to catch up on the cool stuff I missed. ;)

 

I should be back to normal posting now. :)



#767
TreeHuggerHannah

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Don't mind Tempest, she always assumes everything bad is demons. :P



#768
Mahumia

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I expect to be running around a lot this weekend... something with last minute costume stress and getting things arranged before going to gamescom >< So sorry if I respond slowly



#769
TreeHuggerHannah

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Tempest is not planning on doing any looting. She'd actually find it highly disrespectful to go into the house of an innocent dead family and start plundering their stuff, and she'd object pretty strongly if she thought anyone else intended to.

 

She won't go back into the buildings at all unless absolutely necessary. She's had her fill of the carnage. 

 

(Have fun, Mahumia! :D)



#770
Mahumia

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Bartha has enough 'loot'. In other circumstances she might have a look and skinned more wolves.... but now she wants to be done with it, have a good meal and drink, and an appointment with rubber bath duckie....

#771
berelinde

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Guys, I hate to be heavy handed, but I don't want to split up the party at night. It's sometimes necessary to split the group for excursions or exploration, but I'd rather not have large stretches of time where I've got to GM two games at once.

 

So, for the overnight, I'd prefer it if either everybody stayed at the inn or everybody stayed at the farmhouse. Heck, everybody could decide to overnight at Fuldor's farm or scoot off to Denerim, but as long as I didn't have to GM two groups the entire time, it would be OK.



#772
Mahumia

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But but... what about my appointment with rubber ducky? :crying:  Na, I totally understand Berelinde :) Bartha is just a bit selfish sometimes :P



#773
berelinde

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And you wonder how she keeps missing the naked men parading all over the place!



#774
Mahumia

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And you wonder how she keeps missing the naked men parading all over the place!

Give me an OoC poke next time? ;) 



#775
TreeHuggerHannah

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Give me an OoC poke next time? ;)

 

Must... resist... innuendo... ;)