41 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Cassandra is the only Seeker left not going the way of her Order and acting like a rabid mage hunter. I don't think she's as clear cut as you think.

 

And Leliana never has the stomach to do any serious Annulment of Circles or the like. She always sees the innocents that must be protected first.

Well it is clear that cass don't have sympathy for mages she may not hate them like she did in dawn of the seeker and she strikes more as pragmatic and rly i don't see pragmatic person on mages side unless it was mage and sticking with them would be only chance.

 

It was 10 years ago not mention that you don't suffer heavily for killing mages in circle -3 approval and that was for killing wynne not mages.I doubt that she would see nuts power hungry destroyers as innocent durring demo she seems not very like mages of course that may be result of events but i have feeling that more or less she will toward templar goal.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not mages' side, but not Templar either. David Gaider's new interview makes me think she's a little stuck.

I didn't said she is on templar side i said that she supports templar goal current templars as i said are retarded nuts that can't tell difference between shovel and staff so well i doubt that any sane person would be on their side as well.

 

And pretty much that can speak about her faith in chantry and templars not about chantry goal.

[TCBC_Freak]

I'm thinking most of your companions will not support either one very much by this point. They just want the fighting done, since it seems both sides are losing their minds, mages doing blood magic and possibly opening the fade rifts (if the E3 game play is any indication) and the Templar using red lyrium and perverting the land around them. That's why they are with you and not them.

[AkiKishi]

Won't know until I play the game. It's a different character so no pre-conceptions coming along. Not sure whether the maker is the character or the bad guy. Either makes sense. 

[Celtic Latino]

Hmm:

 

Templars:

Cullen- rather obvious

Cassandra- considering her affiliation with the Divine and Chantry, definitely

Leliana- harbors a mistrust for mages, allied with the Divine/Chantry

Vivienne- she's out for her fellow mages BUT she's pro-Circle. In the war, she'd probably aid the Templars if that means saving her fellow Circle Mages

Iron Bull- I'd actually put him on neutral given his relaxed demeanor, but he still adheres to the Qun, at least in belief. The Qun does not treat mages well, I doubt he would either

 

Neutral:

Varric- was neutral in DA2 and now, if anything, he doesn't care much for either side due to the war (more likely to hate both of them)

Cole- with the mind of a child he sounds mostly unaware of what goes on, will probably just go along with whoever's winning or whoever he's contracted to kill

Scribe Lady- It's about the gold if her appearance serves correct. Templars...Mages...not at the cost of fine silks and marketing schemes

Blackwall- Seems more concerned about the Wardens. If a Templar helps, so be it. If a Mage helps, the more the merrier

 

Mages:

Solas- an apostate isn't going to be pro-Circle. Especially an elven apostate to a human establishment.

Dorian- considering he's from Tevinter (magocracy), I don't think he'll be bowing to the Templars anytime soon

Sera- seems to really value freedom and not the bigger picture. Has probably seen mages jailed or made tranquil and sees the Templars as an injustice

[Ap0crypha]

Vivienne: Pro-Circle. That said, I don't see her supporting the Templars or the mages; they're both too fanatical. Honestly, all she probably wants is for things to go back to the way they were.

 

Varric: Not sure. He seemed fed up with them both at the end of DAII. However, depending on Hawke's class and who they supported at the end-game, he may favor one side over the other.

 

Cullen: Pro-Circle. He can sympathize with mages, but he doesn't want them roaming free.

 

Solas: Mages, by virtue of him possibly dabbling in forbidden magic.

 

Iron Bull: Neither. It's possible he may like the Templars more due to his Qun upbringing, but given how he's "freed" himself from that lifestyle, I don't see him slamming the mages with hate like most of his kind. He's probably like Viv in that he thinks they need to be watched but not enslaved.

 

Blackwall: No clue.

 

Sera: No clue. May possibly sympathize with the mages due to her value of freedom, but I think she'd rather see both sides put down, since they're endangering "the little people".

 

Dorian: Mages, duh.

 

Cole: I think he'll be neutral in this. Possibly leaning to the mages, thanks to Rhys, but not enough to actively fight for them.

 

Cassandra: Pro-Circle, like Cullen and Vivienne. Sympathizes with them, still doesn't think they should be given free reign.

 

Scribbles: Not sure.

 

Leliana: Now here I'm really not sure. Would her loyalty to the Chantry overcome her desire to see all people protected, happy and free? Then you factor in how she may have been hardened, how the Warden may have been a mage, and things get really blurry. I'll tentatively say Pro-Circle, but unlike the others, she wants a "looser" system.

[The Baconer]

They won't support either, if they know what's good for them.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

the way they have been emphasizing the breach and closing it, i dont see the mage templar conflict being anything but a side quest or two at this point...  and im pretty sure most companions are sick of it and just want both sides to sit down and shut up

I'm most definitely certain that Mages vs Templars have their arc in Inquisition, their conflict needs a real ending. In DA:O it was obvious their conflict was just starting to really spark and in DA2 it just got set on fire.

[Gervaise]

Actually Varric was much more pro-Templar than mage.   If you side with the Templars he approves that you are "defending our way of life," but if you side with the mages he says he is unsure whether he agrees with "helping dangerous people to run amoke."   His support is purely tied to his friendship for Hawke.

 

Cassandra is concerned with right and justice, as opposed to many Templars who were selected for their so called piety, rather than any high moral fibre.   So she may well be conflicted at present, particularly if the Divine is dead and no one knows exactly who is responsible.    When the last attempt was made on her life in Asunder, Evangeline realised that the mage concerned could not have got that close without the help of both Templars and nobles.

 

One of the interviewees definitely said at E3 that we would be resolving the mage/Templar conflict.   However, it may not be as simple as just choosing a side.   I think the 3 mages we get represent the 3 views on how you deal with mages.

• Vivienne is the supporter of the closed Circle system, even if she may advocate the mages being in charge rather than the Templars.   She may also feel that mages should be allowed in positions of power in government.
• Dorian will be the supporter of the open Circle system, as they have in Tevinter, where the Templars are under the control of the Black Divine, who is a mage, and the mages are free to wonder the streets and have places in government.
• Solas will advocate the abolition of Circles altogether and having mages raised in their own communities.   I'm not sure if he is Dalish or not be he could always point to the fact that the Dalish lives quite safely alongside their mages and are quite capable of dealing with them if they do get possessed or whatever (or there wouldn't be any Dalish to worry about)

Then you will have to decide which model you want to encourage.     I can see the need for a Templar police force but not the sort they currently have where spouting "Divine will" and "serving the Maker" seems to give you Licence to abuse mages as you please.

 

What everyone will be agreed on is a need for a return to order rather than chaos, as it is well know that indiscriminate killing and frequent battles resulting in large scale death, only serve to weaken the Veil.

 

Perhaps a more pertinent question is what you have to do to so anger your followers that they all abandon you bar one at the end.   Also who is the most likely last man standing.   I'm inclined to think Cole because once you have his trust and loyalty he will stick with you no matter what - in Asunder he didn't appear to have any particularly morality or views on anything, just loyalty to Rhys and later Evangeline.   He attacked Lambert not because he was a Templar but because he had been cold hearted and merciless, just as the original Templars had been who left Cole to die, and he was planning an attack on the mages, which to Cole meant Rhys and Evangeline.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The worst part of Dragon Age II isn't going to be getting much focus in this game?

 

Fine by me!

 

Highly subjective.

 

I find the mage-templar struggle infinitely more interesting than darkspawn of fade breaches.

[Lotion Soronarr]

 

• Solas will advocate the abolition of Circles altogether and having mages raised in their own communities.   I'm not sure if he is Dalish or not be he could always point to the fact that the Dalish lives quite safely alongside their mages and are quite capable of dealing with them if they do get possessed or whatever (or there wouldn't be any Dalish to worry about)

 

Huh? The Dalish don't seem to have any control over their mages, given how their Keepers seem to regularly frak up their clans in one way or another.

[Ajadea]

I think the viewpoints aren't really supporting the mages or the templars, per say, given that the mages have approximately zilch idea of how to run a war and the templars are high on Red Lyrium. The standpoints are probably more 'pro-Circle/status quo' and 'anti-Circle', with some variation between people. With that in mind;

 

Cassandra: Status Quo. She wants everything to go back to how it was before. When things made sense. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen, like, ever.

Vivienne: Pro-Circle. She wants the closed Circles back, with nice thick stone walls to protect mages from idiots and idiots from pissed off mages. She had a good life in the existing system.

Varric: Status Quo, I think. He's probably fed up with all the idiots and wants to smack their heads together until they see sense.

Blackwall: Neutral. The rifts are the problem, and Blackwall probably doesn't even concern himself all that much with who wins the war, because in the interim, a lot of innocent people are being killed by both sides?

Sera: I'm inclined to say she's Anti-Circle. If she looks out for the little guy, who's the littler guy than the one who's been systematically locked up for 800 years? She sees who's in front of her, and she'll probably see the person in the mage before she ever considers the explosions.

Iron Bull: Pro-Circle, maybe even harsher. He's still Qunari in morality, I'm guessing, even if he doesn't really behave like one. Mages are dangerous, and this just proves it.

Solas: Anti-Circle. If anyone is for freedom, it's probably our resident fiery apostate.

Cole: Neutral. I think you might have the opportunity to persuade him one way or another.

Dorian: Pro-Circle, with weakened templars. As a Tevinter magister, he sees Circles first as institutes of learning, not prisons. While his dislike for the practices of other magisters might lead him to support templar presence, I'm guessing his belief mages should be in charge is too ingrained to forget.

[OctagonalSquare]

What do "pro-Templar" and "pro-Mage" even mean at this point? Both sides are extreme. One wants all mages locked up and/or slaughtered, whilst the other wants mages to run around unchecked. Neither of these are good ideas, in my opinion. I doubt any of our companion will hold extreme viewpoints. Most of them probably just want things back the way they were.

[Gervaise]

In answer to the quote about the Dalish, we have only actually encountered 3 clans, 2 in game, one in Masked Empire.   Whilst the latter didn't seem a very wholesome bunch, the Keeper had at least baulked at the idea of giving someone over to the demon to be possessed in return for his co-operation.   May be he would have eventually have given Celene or Michel, we shall never know.     The fact is that the Dalish as a whole have survived perfectly okay for 800 years despite having mages looking after their day to day welfare.  

 

There are also other examples where mages live in the community and are revered by them - the Rivanni Wise Women.   They actually allow themselves to become possessed into to impart their wisdom and yet they are held in such high regard by the communities that even the Qunari felt it wiser not to interfere with the arrangement, probably hoping the veneration would just die out naturally as people accepted the superior wisdom of the Qun.

 

The explanation for locking up mages is to protect people from them and to some extend the mages from the people.   Clearly when mages are experimenting and researching then this is wise.   Look what happened when the Divine allowed research to take place without the safety measure of Templars watching out in case things went wrong.    Having a mage tower well away from large settlements is a good thing in such a case.    Hence them being able to contain the damage when things got out of control at the Ferelden Circle.  

 

However, there is nothing to suggest that if mage children were left with their families, people educated not to fear them and had a more local initial education from, say, an experienced mage appointed for that task (rather than an apprentice like Jowan), that for the most part the villagers would have anything to worry about.   The Hawke family seems an excellent example here.   Malcolm Hawke succeeded in raising one or possible two mage children without then posing any sort of risk to anyone else and as Meredith admitted about Bethany, at least one of these was an "exemplary" mage.    The odd mage may get possessed and go rampant but then the odd ordinary person can go mad and do a fair bit of damage as well.   That is what you have the Templars for.   Small groups on a local level to deal with the odd abomination and corrupt mages who abuses their powers.   And you appoint them for their moral character, not their piety (in other words the ability to yell "In the Maker's name" as they slice off the mage's head or rape them).

 

The reason Tevinter is bad is because of its system of government, where power is held by a few elite families.   This is no different to Orlais, simply that the elite families in Tevinter happen to be predominately mages.   In both cases, the ruling elite are more concerned with holding on to the power they have or trying to out manoeuvre others to obtain it.    In both cases the Circles serve to ensure that the commoners never have enough power of their own to over turn the system, since mage children are taken away from their commoner families in order to be educated in the Circles.    If you doubt my assertion, it should be remembered that until the ruling elite in Tevinter got fed up maintaining the sham that mages were not in power, they were all under the banner of the Chantry in Orlais.   During that time Tevinter still had slavery, yet apparently the Divine in Orlais saw no reason to condemn it and the only Archon who tried was assassinated.   Tevinter had and still has Templars but they were and are powerless to prevent what goes on behind the closed doors of the elite families.   In Orlais you can buy a better situation for your child if you choose to send them to the Circle but powerful nobles are sufficiently wealthy and influential that frequently they do not.    Most of the mages in the Circles are from human commoner families, elf communities or orphans/bastards dumped on the temple.

 

This is why I always feel that saying you are either pro-mage or pro-Templar is too simplistic.    May be it was true in Kirkwall when you were still operating under the old system.   Now everything is different and I feel there is no reason why an Inquisitor could not opt for a totally new world order if they chose and make it clear that nobles have no more the divine right to rule over the population as a whole than Templars do over mages.     You earn your position and keep it through the respect of others because you use whatever gifts you have been given for the good of all.     That is the type of Inquisition I would like to promote but for now I'm happy to wait and see and play it by ear as I go along.

[Chari]

No more this bullshit
If anyone yet again will try to get me involved in this stupid mess I'll just command to execute this person regardless of which side they're from