138 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

@fhs3372
I liked the plot. There's not a whole lotta time to really consider the solutions or the implications in the Decision Chamber, especially with the Reapers slowly destroying the solution if Shepard doesn't act. But on reflection I liked it, and the way it sort of reframes the story that came before.

[von uber]

The reapers (given the numbers above) had enough capital ships alone to send at least 5,000 capital ships to each homeworld simultaneously and still have enough left over to easily mop up the fleets and occupy every settled system.

There are too many for their power, or they are too overpowered for their numbers, for it to even make the slightest sense that there was any resistance at all.

[SporkFu]

Harbinger: We are losing ships faster than we can replace them. This hurts us. 

Catalyst: All right. I'm stepping up production. We will now invade every 40,000 years. 

[Deathsaurer]

Depends on who you talk to.  A couple hundred Reapers might have been better.  Every Reaper downed can feel like a real victory. 

 

But if they really have been Reaping for a billion+ years, there's tens of thousands of Sovereign-class Reapers alone.

Even if the Leviathan of Dis is as old as the original estimate there aren't that many Reapers for whatever reason. There are probably a couple of thousand at most, probably less than that, judging from the way they spread put their forces and sent groups just big enough to deal with the planets. Except Earth which they went overkill on.

[AlanC9]

The reapers (given the numbers above) had enough capital ships alone to send at least 5,000 capital ships to each homeworld simultaneously and still have enough left over to easily mop up the fleets and occupy every settled system.

There are too many for their power, or they are too overpowered for their numbers, for it to even make the slightest sense that there was any resistance at all.

 

And since we have a demonstration of their power in ME1, a Reaper zerg rush is out. So it's the numbers that are nonsense. I think what we saw at the end of ME2 is all the Reapers there are.

 

Unless, of course, there really are thousands of Reapers but only a tiny fraction of them could make the journey from dark space, as was widely speculated before ME3 was launched

[Iakus]

Even if the Leviathan of Dis is as old as the original estimate there aren't that many Reapers for whatever reason. There are probably a couple of thousand at most, probably less than that, judging from the way they spread put their forces and sent groups just big enough to deal with the planets. Except Earth which they went overkill on.

Except that makes no sense.

 

1 billion years and a reaping every 50,000 years (or so) = 20,000 Sovereign-class Reapers.

 

Even if you cut that in half due to losses or cycles without a Sovereign being built.  That's ten thousand 2km long dreadnoughts

 

Then there's the destroyers, which get built out of the "rejects" of the cycles.  In the current cycle, there's about a dozen spacefaring races.  let's say for the sake of argument that this is a typical cycle.  Let's also say they only build one such destroyer per race (we don't actually know this, but for the sake of argument we will say they do)  

 

That's ten destroyers per cycle.  And they're less picky about what gets turned into them.  Over a billion years, that's around two hundred thousand destroyers.

 

I suppose we can cut that in half too. But with numbers like that, what's the point?

 

Edit:  You see now why I say "the Leviathan of Dis was a Reaper" is utter nonsense?

[Deathsaurer]

We don't know how long the first cycles took. The relays were apparently made to speed things up. For all we know the early cycles took hundreds of thousands or millions of years.

[Obadiah]

How would that 2nd Reaper War have been engaged? Harbinger would have awoken and started scouring the galaxy for civilizations at FTL speed? Probably took thousands of years to even find and identify advanced civilizations.

[KaiserShep]

We don't know how long the first cycles took. The relays were apparently made to speed things up. For all we know the early cycles took hundreds of thousands or millions of years.

Not to mention the time it would have taken to establish the relay network in the first place. Assembling and positioning them across the entire galaxy would have taken hundreds of thousands of years when you consider that there are even more relays out there that are simply inactive.

[TopTrog]

Am I the only one that actually liked the Reaper plot? It was a classical cheesy as hell story about a hero that defied impossible odds and defeated an invincible bad guy by as*pulling some sort magical/technological/or otherwise overly convenient nonsense.

I liked it. Sure, there were many plot holes in this hero-against-all-odds type story, but they managed to pull some quite creative stuff in there which I found really interesting. Some of what comes to mind is:

 

- The scope expanded continuously with each reveal. At the end, not even the "deus ex machina" device could have defeated the opposition, had it not decided to give us the choice and thereby continue its massive-scale experiment. I imagine that this put many people off. I found it interesting, but then I was one of those who even liked the "many cycles" reveal in "Matrix Reloaded", so maybe it´s just me :-).

 

- The views of the opposition on life were truly alien. They shared a prime value with us (preserve life), which surpassed their tendency for self-preservation. But their reduction of life to just genetic information with everything that makes it worth living for us just an annoying source of "chaos" for them was a very interesting example of thinking in absolutes. Just what a hypothetical AI might come up with.

 

- The backdrop of the "extinction by overwhelming force" threat worked well to facilitate the (for me) most engaging points of the game, which were the choices we had to make throughout all three games that made it such a personal experience. There are no higher stakes, so how far are you willing to go ? At the end, do you follow the overlord´s advice, do you install yourself in its place or do you remove it ?   

[Ruadh]

This is all irrelevant. We all know that Cerberus was the brains behind the Reapers, much like they are apparently behind absolutely everything in the galaxy. Everything is Cerberus, Cerberus everything, Cerberus . . . Cerberus . . . Cerberus.

 

ME4: Cerberus Returns

 

ME5: Even Bigger Cerberus 

 

ME6: Reapers Who? It's ****** Cerberus Time

[Display Name Owner]

I liked the Reapers, or the idea of them at least. After Sovereign I was raring to go. I think the mistake was tackling them in one game, they should have been the focus of the entire trilogy. I mean, I guess they were technically, but only by proxy. Reapers through Collectors, Reapers through indoctrinated Cerberus... Given the scope of the Reapers as a threat it feels like any conflict against them should have spanned years or even decades. Maybe that wouldn't have been executable though.

 

I dunno. Much as I've enjoyed ME3 over the times I've played it, the fact is it's a total waste of time in terms of the actual plot. Maybe if it weren't the Reaper thing would have felt right. Regardless, I actually wonder if the MEverse lends itself better to relatively small-scale stories. More 'resolve this situation' than 'save the entire galaxy'.

[Obadiah]

The small scale stories were fairly well done. Probably easier for a writer to hold in his head at once maybe.

[Ryuzetsu]

OP you compare the Reapers to Novas and things of natural celestial mechanics. In fact they are not. They are creations of a tyrannical race that use broken logic to create machines that then turn on them and then perform galactic genocide that they drop on the galaxy every 50,000 years. The Catalyst used this same thing when saying that the Reapers were like a forest fire. But the flaw in that is the Reapers have sentience and therefore will. The Reapers choose to do what it is that they do, they impose their will on the galaxy, they've said as much. A nova, a gravimetric pulse etc. are works comic collision and happen independent of any will of their own initiative. The Reapers are evil, pure and simple, forced galactic genocide=evil, no two ways about it. Calling evil out and then destroying it utterly is what happened and that is good.

[XXIceColdXX]

I agree with you OP. Definately could have kept the reapers in the background for a few more games yet.

I enjoyed playing and knowing there was a threat of that magnitude out there.

[AlanC9]

Reapers harvesting only the superior species every 50,000 years only to leave the inferior ones alone doesn't make much sense to me. If your so lonely Harbinger you should of made a reaper out of each species an be done with organic life period. Do you do it because you don't want dumb reapers or because you like to nitpick which species will become the next reaper for you to play cards with?

It's because the Reapers prefer to leave species alone for as long as they can, of course,

[TheMyron]

Yes, we did have to fight the Reapers; we could not just sit back and allow Reaper infiltration, Reaper indoctrination, Reaper subversion, nor the intergalactic (or is it interstellar?) Reaper conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

 

The screen should've cut to black followed by the credits after Kai Leng's pathetic body slumped, along with TIM's body dead on his chair, and then from there, we move on to ME4: War of Worlds which would focus on the war with the Reapers.

[Shahadem]

The opener must be related to Saren, and equally indoctrinated.

 

The Reapers are artificial sentient beings, what they do is not a natural part of the universe, nor are the Reapers gods like Gozer the Gozerian.

 

Dr. Egon Spengler: Vinz, you said before you were waiting for a sign. What sign are you waiting for?

Louis: Gozer the Traveler. He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!
 

And there really aren't as many Reapers as people are reporting. If you look only at ME1, the Reapers are a single civilization that turned themselves into Reapers millions of years ago. Since that one species are now the Reapers, there won't be any more of them. Every cycle that has occured since then has resulted in the loss of more and more Reapers thus reducing the total Reaper population which cannot be rebuilt because that species has been turned into Reapers (which is also why they all look the same). I know that Bioware has been trying to retcon away from this in ME2 and ME3, but I'm just not buying it. Why would the Reapers want to create more Reapers? Doing so would only create disharmony leading to civil war among the Reapers. And that's something that ME2 has to explain but doesn't, if the Reapers were turning other civilizations into Reapers against their will, why didn't those new Reapers attack the old Reapers? Seems like they'd still be super pissed at being turned into black goo.

 

But also given how old the Reapers are, radioactive decay would have to be a a huge problem. Every atom that makes up those Reapers would have decayed into a different element. Time alone would have killed them off, unless they are constantly replacing the very matter they are made of.

[Killdren88]

Maybe with each cycle Organics got stronger and were able to withstand the Reapers for longer and longer periods of time. Eventually a cycle would have come along that could challenge the Reapers.

[Daemul]

Maybe with each cycle Organics got stronger and were able to withstand the Reapers for longer and longer periods of time. Eventually a cycle would have come along that could challenge the Reapers.

I think you'll find that it's the other way around, each cycle actually seems to be weaker than the last. There was a cycle which somehow carved their image out of a fricken moon(how dafuq did they do this?!) and the Protheans could make Sun's supernova, things which the current cycle are not able to do. This isn't even mentioning the Leviathan.

This is a consequence of the cycles and there's actually a term used to describe this type of phenomenon. I can't remember what it is though.

[jros83]

Don't fear the Reaper(s)

[in it for the lolz]

Screw the Reapers, send in the Tyranids! (and watch as the forums explode with posts about them being too OP on Normal).

[jros83]

Screw the Reapers, send in the Tyranids! (and watch as the forums explode with posts about them being too OP on Normal).

Nothing stops the 'nids. Makes the whole Chaos vs. Imperium thing null and void considering eventually the Tyranids will literally consume EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I know this isn't 40K chat. I'll stop now.

[in it for the lolz]

Nothing stops the 'nids. Makes the whole Chaos vs. Imperium thing null and void considering eventually the Tyranids will literally consume EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I know this isn't 40K chat. I'll stop now.

Every true. In fact I have been thinking about wirting a story about Tyranids invading the ME galaxy (after the events of ME 3). And then posting it here on BSN.